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The mere fact that no god is observed communicating directly to everyone means that...

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I believe we know each other well so you should know I would never blame God for anything.
I know. My point is that this is an implication of what you're saying that you seem to fail to recognize.

If God is the ultimate source of everything, then God is ultimately responsible for everything - including things that go against his will, except to the extent that God couldn't anticipate them or was incapable of preventing them.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
It depends what you mean by directly. It is written that the things of God are apparent in what was made -generally -but specifics are withheld and revealed according to his purpose.
God will deal more directly with all later -but in a certain order now. God dealt more directly with humans in the past, but lifetimes of personal and collective experience are necessary to prepare us to understand, accept and be governed by God.

Everything from Adam onward was to prepare "firstfruits" (of all nations) to reign as immortals with Christ beginning on Earth -and then out into the entire creation as "the rest of the dead" are given eternal life if they have done good works or "saved, yet so as by fire" if their works were not good. Humans will continue to reproduce and eventually become immortal -and "of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end"

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Isa 45:15Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Dan 12:8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

1 Col 1:25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Rev 10:7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
 
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columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I believe the evidence is that God is sentient.
What evidence is that?

I believe what you think is evidence is only fantasy.

No.
It's the complete lack of evidence of any compelling sort. All the evidence anybody ever produces is indistinguishable from a personal delusion.
The same evidence that you find reason to disbelieve in all the religions that you don't believe in.

People aren't that smart, and very prone to self aggrandizing delusion. Religion is the result of that human weakness.
Tom
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Your desire is to start a theological discussion, Like always, it will draw atheists like honey draws flies.
For some odd reason, they believe that this message of atheism must penetrate into every theological discussion they can find, and access.
I do not know if Trailblazer wants a theological discussion. Trailblazer just wants to insert quotes from the Bahai mirror image of Allah.
Why should different views in a discussion be a surprise?
I believe you are about to run into a gigantic tree if all you know is yourself.
There is nothing better than knowing oneself.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
He is God incarnate, not a prophet.
Yeah, I know. Nice story. Not just alive but came back from death.
I don't see how she'd be in a position to say that God hasn't talked to other people who she wouldn't consider "messengers."
I talk with Hindu Gods (Goddesses, not so much), day in and day out. I am not a messenger. I am a friend to them.
I believe we know each other well so you should know I would never blame God for anything.
I would, if he were there. But there is no God.
 
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Shad

Veteran Member
Please select what you consider the most likely reason:

a) God has chosen not to communicate directly to everyone.
b) God wants to communicate directly to everyone but God does not always do what He wants to do.

Without providing reasons you leave both answers wide open to interpretation probably beyond the reasons you thought of. If God is logical there is a reason for action or lack of. If God is not logical but is emotional this renders the concept of God in the question a moot point.

This is not a point about the axiom of God existing in the question. It is about open ended questions.
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is a crucial reason that I'm confident that the God of Abraham is a fictional character. It's the true Problem of Evil.

Humans are born fragile, ignorant, and stupid. We usually get better, but not all that much and the improvements are spotty at best.

Mostly we keep operating with the limitations and instincts we were born with. They kept our ancestors alive and reproducing in the natural world. But they aren't particularly conducive to living a satisfying, moral, life.

So, I don't think that the real Problem of Evil is the hurricanes and viruses and droughts and earthquakes that God throws at us. It's the human nature causing us to behave like animals so much of the time. It's the way God makes us that is the true Problem of Evil.

If there is such an Almighty Entity.

I see human nature as proof that there is no God who cares what we believe, do, or what happens to us.
Tom
I think the whole problem is people's understandings and expectations of the Divine Reality. It can be talked about and conceptualized in many ways. Yes, these images of God we create in our religions are fictions. But really better stated, they are metaphors for the Unknowable, or Ultimate Reality, which become mistaken as literal entities, people, and externalized objects in some other imaginary world.

The Unknowable, or "God", the Mystery, etc., is real. When the mind with its thoughts and ideas try to penetrate that reality with those, it projects its own concepts against an Infinite Screen, and sees its own face looking back at them. Is this a limitation of the design? That the mind mistakes its own image of itself and not sees reality? A mind that sees only an illusion, not realizing it is an illusion, believe that to be reality, believing that is truth?

I'd say speaking from the perspective of evolution, no. It's not a limitation of the mind in it potentials. It's not a design flaw, but rather a stage of evolution that most people are currently at. But there are others who go beyond that stage to the next one, where seeing the Divine in plane sight is commonplace. I am speaking of the higher, Awakened or Enlightened mind. There is no limitation there. So rather than seeing a flaw, you simply are looking at an early stage of evolution. Being younger, is not a flaw. Or stated another way, a 5 year old is not a defective 12 year old.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Please select what you consider the most likely reason:

a) God has chosen not to communicate directly to everyone.
b) God wants to communicate directly to everyone but God does not always do what He wants to do.
Has anyone observed God doing anything? You don't believe God can be seen, so no. You don't believe God speaks to ordinary people only to special manifestations, so no.

When someone tells you God does speak to them, you don't believe them, so again you win... because you make the rules.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
What is even more hilarious is that you dont.

Philosophy: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

Reality : the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
That second definition is itself a philosophical ideal about "the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence".
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
What is even more hilarious is that you dont.

Philosophy: the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.

Reality : the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

Exist: have objective reality or being
Objective reality or being: Having reality independent of the mind.

The problem with objective reality is that if it is independent of the mind, you can't know it and back to knowledge we are and philosophy.
It seems to me, that you have ideas, you have learned from others and they make sense to you, but you don't know, that they are tied back to philosophy.
Historically the idea of objective reality is from philosophy. E.g. the old Greeks didn't have that idea. It is an idea, that behind your first person experience in your mind is an objective reality independent of your mind.
Kant show that while true, the only thing you know about objective reality is, that it is independent of your mind and it makes no sense to claim other knowledge about it, because you can have no other knowledge as it is independent of your mind and since you only know what is in your mind, it is unknowable what objective reality is, other than objective reality as such.

Now if you can explain, how you solve that, I am willing to listen and learn. But apparently that is one of the limits of knowledge.

Regards
Mikkel
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I believe it also can come from the spirit. But the reality is that one can test the validity of a communication as to whether it is real or fantasy.

Never seen a spirit, and i believe neither has anyone else.

Communication can be recorded. Fantasy can't
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Please select what you consider the most likely reason:

a) God has chosen not to communicate directly to everyone.
b) God wants to communicate directly to everyone but God does not always do what He wants to do.

You forgot option c) God does not exist. However, if God exists, of course he would do what he wants. The notion of a being doing something that it doesn't want to do is unintelligible.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
That second definition is itself a philosophical ideal about "the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence".


So the dictionary has it wrong and should not have used the words "they actually exist" but "you think exists" i understand. Can i suggest you contact the OED and tell them.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Exist: have objective reality or being
Objective reality or being: Having reality independent of the mind.

The problem with objective reality is that if it is independent of the mind, you can't know it and back to knowledge we are and philosophy.
It seems to me, that you have ideas, you have learned from others and they make sense to you, but you don't know, that they are tied back to philosophy.
Historically the idea of objective reality is from philosophy. E.g. the old Greeks didn't have that idea. It is an idea, that behind your first person experience in your mind is an objective reality independent of your mind.
Kant show that while true, the only thing you know about objective reality is, that it is independent of your mind and it makes no sense to claim other knowledge about it, because you can have no other knowledge as it is independent of your mind and since you only know what is in your mind, it is unknowable what objective reality is, other than objective reality as such.

Now if you can explain, how you solve that, I am willing to listen and learn. But apparently that is one of the limits of knowledge.

Regards
Mikkel


You have a serious problem with objective.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
So the dictionary has it wrong and should not have used the words "they actually exist" but "you think exists" i understand. Can i suggest you contact the OED and tell them.

Look up exist, here is one: - to have real being whether material or spiritual. M-W
Another: have objective reality or being. Google.
Yet another: to be, or to be real. Cambridge

So what now?
existence | Origin and meaning of existence by Online Etymology Dictionary

"stand forth, come out, emerge; appear, be visible, come to light; arise, be produced; turn into" and "cause to stand," and "to stand, make or be firm."
All these words are related to humans since they require human experience. So in a sense, what exists, is what human experience.
 
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