Our current discussion began after you asked “Why?” in Post #538 about some beliefs I shared with
@columbus
I responded with a list of more of my beliefs to which you responded with, “Why do you believe that?” in Post #563.
This led me to respond in Post #569 with,
“I believe that the
Holy Spirit of God has testified to my heart and mind the truthfulness of these things.
It is an ineffable witness that is so powerful that it can cast out all fear and doubt.” (Bold and italics added)
And now you are asking me what this “ineffable witness is? Like - really?
The “ineffable witness that is so powerful that it can cast out all fear and doubt” is the testimony of the Holy Spirit to your heart and mind.
Obviously, but I would argue that my beliefs have not been “challenged” in as much as they have been “misrepresented”.
Also, you asking me “Why?” over and over again doesn’t really qualify as a “challenge”.
Agree to disagree.
Yes, but my argument was about the weaknesses of an attraction to children and same-sex attraction -
not the sins of pedophilia and homosexuality.
In a discussion about
my beliefs we are going to use my understanding of these terms. Not yours.
And I explained to you that that was not at all what I did.
First off - I did not mention pedophilia - but an attraction to children. Which is a weakness - not a sin.
Second - I never once “demonized” or “marginalized” those who suffer from an attraction to children. I never said there was anything “wrong” with them.
Therefore - logically - you cannot use this argument against me because I didn’t bring up pedophilia nor did I “demonize” or “marginalize” those who suffer from an attraction to children.
If I don’t “demonize” those who are attracted to children - how can you claim I use that attraction to “demonize” those with a same-sex attraction?
It makes no sense.
Your argument against my referring to an attraction to children in a discussion about same-sex attraction boils down to, “I don’t like it.”
You just don’t like that both an attraction to children and a same-sex attraction appear on my list of “inappropriate sexual attraction”.
You have every right not to agree with me. You have every right to believe that there is nothing inappropriate about same-sex attraction. You don’t have to believe that it is a weakness.
But you don’t have the right to misrepresent my beliefs.
The moment you claimed that I was discussing pedophilia - you were misrepresenting my beliefs - because we are using my understanding of these terms - we are discussing my beliefs, not yours.
Besides, you already know that my understanding makes way more sense because all of you have been using my way of thinking every time you discuss pedophilia.
Both
@columbus and that other forum member who talked about “damage” and “consent” and “respect” both used the word “pedophilia” to describe “raping children” - not just an attraction to children.
As I said before, I do not believe that you would accept my evidence. It is spiritual evidence.
There are methods for deciphering truth mentioned in the scriptures which I tried and I found them to be reliable.
I first applied them at a time in my life when I did not want what I was taught to be true.
However - to my astonishment - I received the “ineffable” witness of the Holy Spirit as promised after following the method described.
That is not the impression you made on me at all.
It seems to me that if you don’t accept an argument - you misrepresent it in an attempt to try and paint it as immoral - or rather paint the person presenting it as immoral.
Or you ask a bunch of questions with the hope of “twisting their words” so you could accuse them of saying something they never said or that they had “changed their tune” when they never did.
Wow. What a non-committal response. “What I
think you told me…”
Bro, this is the internet. Our entire conversation is saved and easily accessible. If you want to claim that I said something - actually quote me saying it.
I never said what you claimed that I said.
First off, this is a question based on the assumption that people are born homosexual. I do not believe that to be true.
A person may be born with or develop an attraction to the same-sex, but that does not mean that they are destined to commit homosexual acts.
We are born with weakness (same-sex attraction) but we are not destined to commit sin (homosexual acts).
Let me ask you a couple questions.
Are you going to claim that since God created Light that He also created Darkness?
That because He teaches us His Laws that He also created Lawlessness?
His desire for us to be righteous created wickedness?
Adam and Eve gained the ability to discern Good from Evil when they partook of the fruit. This partaking also caused the conditions of mortality to be placed upon them, such as weakness and eventual death.
God wants us to gain - through our experiences - the ability to choose Good over Evil and the strength to overcome our weaknesses.
He allows us to pass through trials so that we can gain the experience we need to become like Him.
As I have told you before - God does not force anyone to do anything. He will not force us to be perfect. All choices lie before us - the entire spectrum between Good and Evil - and He wants us to choose for ourselves.
To prove who we are and what we want to be through our choices.
God did not create sin, therefore He did not create homosexuality.
You assume that your question was valid because you assume that people are born homosexual.
But I believe that both assumptions are wrong.
God created us - His children - and He commanded us to follow His example.
Men and women are different. They were designed this way to complement one another.
Only a man and a woman - acting together as one through marriage - can obtain perfection in the next life.
It is possible for those who do not marry in this life to find an eternal mate in the life to come - and thus attain perfection.
It is also possible for those couples who could not procreate in this life to be able to do so in the life to come - which is also a requirement for eventual perfection.
These blessings have been promised to those who keep God’s commandments.
Two men and two women cannot become perfect together.
Let me explain something further. Sexual attraction and urges - as we understand them here on Earth - will not exist in the next life.
When me and my wife leave this world - our relationship will endure because it was sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise - but we will no longer have the sexual desires that we had on Earth. That was a temporary thing.
We would still desire each other - but it would be on a different level. A higher level.
A homosexual couple - when they leave this world - will also no longer have the sexual urges that they experienced on Earth and their relationship will also have an end.
Their relationship will end because it was not sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise - which God claims can only happen to those who follow His Law regarding marriage.
The weakness that God had intended for them to overcome and use as a stepping stone - instead became a stumbling block - for whatever reason.
Two men and two women just cannot become perfect together.
Again, this is an argument based on the idea that people are born to be homosexual. Which I believe is false.
They may have been born with the weakness of same-sex attraction - but that does not mean they were born to commit the sin of homosexuality.
Just like how a person who is born with a temper is not destined to commit unjustified violent acts.
Also, the argument that something that makes us happy should be considered moral or good - is very weak.
I believe this is a very simplistic view of both love and happiness.
I love my children and I know that giving them candy makes them happy - but I also know that candy does not instill in them a lasting happiness and can cause harm in excess.
God wants us to receive eternal joy. He rejoices in our moments of happiness only as long as those moments are drawing us closer to the ultimate goal of eternal joy.
For example - He may not rejoice with me in my happiness after beating someone at a video game (which feels awesome) - if my excessive playing of video games is negatively affecting me and my relationships with my family and friends.
God will not rejoice in your cousin’s supposed happiness because He knows that it cannot last into eternity - which is all He really cares about.
It harmed every same sex couple that wanted to get married or was already married.
