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"Florida Bill Prevents Kids from Studying Subjects Their Parents Don’t Agree With"

Mindmaster

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Skwim said:
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"A Florida Senate panel has narrowly backed a bill that would leave children without the right to learn about subjects their parents don’t agree with — including the theory of evolution, anthropogenic climate change, and a whole raft of topics under the umbrella of sex education.

In addition to science-based topics, progressive activists point out that the bill could lead to children of white supremacists being pulled from lessons about African American history or the achievements of other cultures, or Holocaust deniers who refuse to let their children learn history lessons that counter their own propaganda.

The woman who filed SB 1634, State Senator Kelli Stargel (R-Lakeland), says the bill does not change any of the rights already afforded to parents under Florida law; it just highlights them and requires schools to incorporate explicitly into their policies.

This bill is not a huge departure from what we have in law. It is basically compiling together [in law] for the parents to be involved with their children, that parents know they have rights, and parents have the ability to govern their children in a way they feel is best.
​
It’s telling that the phrase “parental rights” appears in the bill’s text several times, while the idea of children’s rights rates not one mention.

LGBTQ rights activist Delilah Pierre points out that LGBTQ children will be doubly impacted by the bill: kept from learning about LGBTQ history and identity even as they face the risk that their educators will feel compelled to out them to unsupportive families:

This bill takes away the right of queer and trans kids to even have their own personal identification of themselves, their right to have to tell their parents of their queerness and their transness, in their way, on their own terms. This bill makes it possible for people to erase even more LGBTQ history.
source and more​


Thoughts?

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Click to expand...

Fine by me... First, you have a right to be stupid. Of course, what is stupid is a subjective observation. :D

Secondly, I think most of that stuff doesn't even help a child earn a living so it has no business in a school. Much of the disputed areas of science are the ones loaded with conjecture and we shouldn't be teaching them like they're facts. Climate change alarmists have been screwing up for about 60 years, so it's probably not wise to trust them. Evolution is still limited by our ability to gather the data and the gaps are filled in by educated guesses. (That's subjective not objective reasoning, lol.) Ditto on anything in the gender studies category... I don't see how any of that helps a young person get economically ahead... so ditch it... waste of money completely... If they care about it, they'll read about it on their free time anyway, lol.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Mindmaster said:
Evolution is still limited by our ability to gather the data and the gaps are filled in by educated guesses.
Click to expand...
Spoken like a Creationist who doesn't know the difference between a hypothesis and theory and definitely cannot define theory. That's why this bill needs to die. Because people think they know, they are so sure of themselves, but they aren't.
 
Stanyon

Stanyon

WWMRD?
I find it interesting that
Shadow Wolf said:
I was taught all the languages of the world came from Babylon when god confused them over the Tower scene, that the American Founding Fathers were all a bunch of Bible Thumping Christians who established America as a Christian nation, Noah's flood literally happened, that Alexander the Great unified the world to prepare it for the coming of Christ, that apartheid Africa was a good and justified thing (along with other facets of racism such as racial segregation featured in the little comic things in our workbooks), traditional Christian gender roles were strongly promoted, and there are more concerning things such as promoting the idea of breaking the law if it's to serve god, and that even performing dangerous acts in the name of god is a good thing to do even if it is known there is a high chance you will be killed. Which leads to the promotion of the Christian victimhood and martyrdom complex.
And, of course, standardized testing is absolutely worthless and measures only if you can commit rote facts to memory. They don't test or measure your ability to actually use and access information. Home school kids get a lot of practice memorizing Bible verses. It's really not much of an achievement.
Click to expand...

O.k. so you were intellectually shortchanged by the people who should care the most for you and want to prepare you for the world, that doesn't mean everyone has the same experiences. To suggest that all home schoolers involve religion just seems your own personal ax to grind due to your experiences.
 
Howard Is

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
Mindmaster said:
I don't see how any of that helps a young person get economically ahead... so ditch it...
Click to expand...

Money is, after all, the whole point of education.
I'm sure you are sufficiently educated to understand that 'unlimited economic growth' is the theory proposed by the FSM party.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Stanyon said:
I find it interesting that


O.k. so you were intellectually shortchanged by the people who should care the most for you and want to prepare you for the world, that doesn't mean everyone has the same experiences. To suggest that all home schoolers involve religion just seems your own personal ax to grind due to your experiences.
Click to expand...
I know it's not all, but it's still a big enough thing that I am definitely not the only one, or even one of a few. What I had, it's found throughout the world (though mostly in America and pretty much exclusively at Missionary camps in foreign lands).
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Skwim said:
.


"A Florida Senate panel has narrowly backed a bill that would leave children without the right to learn about subjects their parents don’t agree with — including the theory of evolution, anthropogenic climate change, and a whole raft of topics under the umbrella of sex education.

In addition to science-based topics, progressive activists point out that the bill could lead to children of white supremacists being pulled from lessons about African American history or the achievements of other cultures, or Holocaust deniers who refuse to let their children learn history lessons that counter their own propaganda.

The woman who filed SB 1634, State Senator Kelli Stargel (R-Lakeland), says the bill does not change any of the rights already afforded to parents under Florida law; it just highlights them and requires schools to incorporate explicitly into their policies.

This bill is not a huge departure from what we have in law. It is basically compiling together [in law] for the parents to be involved with their children, that parents know they have rights, and parents have the ability to govern their children in a way they feel is best.
​
It’s telling that the phrase “parental rights” appears in the bill’s text several times, while the idea of children’s rights rates not one mention.

LGBTQ rights activist Delilah Pierre points out that LGBTQ children will be doubly impacted by the bill: kept from learning about LGBTQ history and identity even as they face the risk that their educators will feel compelled to out them to unsupportive families:

This bill takes away the right of queer and trans kids to even have their own personal identification of themselves, their right to have to tell their parents of their queerness and their transness, in their way, on their own terms. This bill makes it possible for people to erase even more LGBTQ history.
source and more​


Thoughts?

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Click to expand...

Florida.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
100 +/-15 is considered average. That would mean the average range of IQ scores runs between 85 - 115. This accounts for about 68% of the population.
Click to expand...
With half the population carrying an IQ below 100 I don't see this as a good idea. :)

Note that in this rather interesting IQ evaluation 25% of the population has, at best, an "up-hill battle" to get through life. That's 1 in every 4 people. ;)




2019-04-10_9-49-23.jpg


source


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Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Shaul said:
What’s the matter, you afraid the government won’t be able to control the kids’ minds?
Click to expand...
If I was afraid of anything it would be that far too many kids would be poorly served by attempts at home schooling.

.
 
Last edited:
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Skwim said:
With half the population carrying an IQ below 100 I don't see this as a good idea. :)

Note that in this rather interesting IQ evaluation 25% of the population has, at best, an "up-hill battle" to get through life. That's 1 in every 4 people. ;)




2019-04-10_9-49-23.jpg


source


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Click to expand...
Sorry (not) that evolution and increased societal standards aren't working fast enough for your liking.
Flynn effect - Wikipedia
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Stanyon said:
Data suggests that homeschooled children do better on standardized tests and tend to complete college at a higher percentage than those from public schools. .
Click to expand...
But not the entire population of school age children as Shaul here would have it. Much of the parenting populace simply doesn't have the ability, or time, or both to do a proper job..

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Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Mindmaster said:
Fine by me... First, you have a right to be stupid. Of course, what is stupid is a subjective observation. :D
Click to expand...
Problem with creating stupid people is that their votes carry just as much weight as those cast by us, the smarties.

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sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf said:
It is a sign of how weak and insecure their faith is, if it cannot survive the utterance of ideas and so thus ideas must be prohibited. It's terrible for the now, but also a potential death throw as the Religious Right becomes ever more desperate to maintain their hold on society.
Click to expand...
You're totally correct. Their old order is dying and they're engaging in an ultimately futile struggle to stop the transition.
 
Mindmaster

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Spoken like a Creationist who doesn't know the difference between a hypothesis and theory and definitely cannot define theory. That's why this bill needs to die. Because people think they know, they are so sure of themselves, but they aren't.
Click to expand...

If there is a possibility of a debate it's not a fact. :D

Evolution is certainly in the debatable realm in various particulars -- it seems to hold true subjectively with recent evidence, but it's not particularly compelling as you go further back historically. Ultimately, I'm sure further work will sort out the details but right now the limit of our technical analysis is about 10,000 years -- which in the scale of things is _nothing_ and certainly not enough to reach very many conclusions. This is why I don't care either way really if it's taught or not taught -- it doesn't change anything either way, but the dummies will accept it as truth. I fail to see how knowing of it helps you make money or support yourself and that's generally what the purpose of school is.

I know the difference between a theory and a hypothesis -- I'd want only facts taught in a grade school. Theories are what people should be learning about when they're going for advanced degrees, since they are now working toward research topics where such material would probably provide avenues of exploration. To someone not in these fields all of this information is and always will be useless.

As far as the creationist rant, well I don't know what caused the origin of the universe, but I'm pretty sure neither you or anyone else knows either. :D
 
Mindmaster

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Skwim said:
Problem with creating stupid people is that their votes carry just as much weight as those cast by us, the smarties.

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Click to expand...

Who qualifies as more stupid - The religious fundamentalist right, or the bleeding heart leftists?

It was a trick question.. :D

Anyway, to me I think all the debates are worthless because they're on subjects I'd never feel are justified in school. They neither make you more intelligent and able to reason or more industrious and able to earn more income. I thought that is the whole point of education anyway, no? :D

Not even the staunch religious right has a problem with sex education at the proper time, but what children are getting isn't a birds and bees talk these days. They're getting a tune up on homosexuality, transgenderism, and all kinds of other stuff. If the school was sticking to biological properties of sexuality no one would give a flying ****, really. Personally, I rather have the educational system stick to the hard facts and leave the politics and kinks out of the equation.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Mindmaster said:
If there is a possibility of a debate it's not a fact. :D
Click to expand...
There is a possibility to debate everything and anything. That doesn't have any bearings on facts, however.
At this points, the facts are all the evidence points toward evolution being a fact.
And I suppose you think germs and gravity shouldn't be taught in "regular" school then, if you think theories are for advanced course work.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Mindmaster said:
Not even the staunch religious right has a problem with sex education at the proper time, but what children are getting isn't a birds and bees talk these days. They're getting a tune up on homosexuality, transgenderism, and all kinds of other stuff. If the school was sticking to biological properties of sexuality no one would give a flying ****, really. Personally, I rather have the educational system stick to the hard facts and leave the politics and kinks out of the equation.
Click to expand...
They give a flying **** about teenagers in high school being taught how to use condoms.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
As this thread demonstrates, conservatives seem less concerned about the quality of education than liberals. Is it because those who are well informed and think critically are less likely to vote for their favored party/politicians?
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Skwim said:
Yeah, me too.

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Click to expand...
The problem isn't the IQ, it's social narratives and education. Such as, though IQ rates are going up around the world, America has a very large amount of people still who deny evolution and believe in ghosts. It's not the normal distribution of data reflecting itself in an IQ distribution because that is data, it's not the average IQ because that is going up. Blame instead decades of policy that eroded the separation of church and state, the gross allowances that religion receives under the guise of freedom of religion, the abhorrent idea that parents have an explicit and right to decide what their children are taught, or rather not taught. It's not IQ, but trolls like Ken Ham and the fools like Bill Nye who feed him.
 
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