How do Christians view Judaism?

sooda · Feb 21, 2020

Harel13 said:
Ridiculous sources as always, sooda, I'm afraid. You're quoting from a 1920 article! (I have absolutely no idea how you even found that, but what the heck.)
Here's what Wikipedia writes on the Jewish population in Israel in 1947:
View attachment 37330
Israeli Jews - Wikipedia

So I was off by 30,000. Big whoop. My point wasn't about exact population statistics, but that no one can deny the tremendous population growth Israel has enjoyed over the decades.

Imagine if the US population doubled with foreigners who didn't speak English in a 20 year period.. and imagine they considered Americans inferior.

Harel13 · Feb 21, 2020

sooda said:
Imagine if the US population doubled with foreigners who didn't speak English in a 20 year period.. and imagine they considered Americans inferior.

I'm not going to imagine anything. Cut to the chase.

wizanda · Feb 21, 2020

Harel13 said:
WWIII Iran v. USA fizzled out, huh?

WW3 is stated in the letter from Albert Pike to Mazzini.

It is between Zionism/Christendom Vs Islam/Dharma/Dao/Etc.

USA is a Military Arm of the Roman Empire, and the Babylonite Zionists have been dumbed down, not to realize their own idol will destroy them, according to the texts.

In case you are not aware America has already stated they plan to have war with specific countries, in pursuit of the Zionist owned IMF banking cabal.

In my opinion.

sooda · Feb 21, 2020

wizanda said:
WW3 is stated in the letter from Albert Pike to Mazzini.

It is between Zionism/Christendom Vs Islam/Dharma/Dao/Etc.

USA is a Military Arm of the Roman Empire, and the Babylonite Zionists have been dumbed down, not to realize their own idol will destroy them, according to the texts.

In case you are not aware America has already stated they plan to have war with specific countries, in pursuit of the Zionist owned IMF banking cabal.

In my opinion.

Wow.. That's quite a conspiracy theory.. Babylonite Zionists?

There is NO Roman Empire.

wizanda · Feb 21, 2020

sooda said:
Wow.. That's quite a conspiracy theory.. Babylonite Zionists?

The 'Children of Babylon' are those who after the Babylonian Exile became corrupted; Yeshua states that they no longer followed the Torah, yet their own made up Rabbinic ideas (Mark 7:1-13)...

Which is why modern day Judaism is called Rabbinic Judaism, and no longer acknowledges the Song of Moses (Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118, Isaiah 12:2), where their Divine Being became their Salvation (Yeshua).

In my opinion.

sooda · Feb 21, 2020

wizanda said:
The 'Children of Babylon' are those who after the Babylonian Exile became corrupted; Yeshua states that they no longer followed the Torah, yet their own made up Rabbinic ideas (Mark 7:1-13)...

Which is why modern day Judaism is called Rabbinic Judaism, and no longer acknowledges the Song of Moses (Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118, Isaiah 12:2), where their Divine Being became their Salvation (Yeshua).

In my opinion.

Don't be silly. The good figs went to Babylon.. The bad figs were left behind.

Rabbinic Judaism came about after the destruction of the Temple.. Nothing to do with corruption. They didn't need animal sacrifice anymore.

Hawkins · Feb 21, 2020

I'd give you an analogy.

When the US government has a critical message for its citizens, it delivers the message to Fox News. All staff in Fox News are at a point aware of the message delivered from the US government and broadcast it locally inside the state where its headquarter is located.

Later however they lost contact with the US government and can no longer be in a position to carry any new message. The US government now authenticates CNN instead for the broadcasting of a new message.

What Fox News covers are those aware of the old message, which doesn't have a good reach out. What CNN covers are those aware of the new message. Since CNN is in close contact with the US government especially at the point when the US government explicitly enforces CNN to broadcast the new message to each and every state of the US. Now the US citizens who received the new message are in a mass much more than what Fox New had reached.

In the above analogy, Fox News represents the ancient Judaism while CNN represents Christianity.

WhyIsThatSo · Feb 21, 2020

Wandering Monk said:
You are being selective in your definition.

ALL tennis balls are "balls"......but all "balls" are NOT tennis balls.

Harel13 · Feb 21, 2020

Hawkins said:
Fox News represents the ancient Judaism while CNN represents Christianity.

Love this part.

Good-Ole-Rebel · Feb 21, 2020

Harel13 said:
All of this is way better than being dispersed and hated throughout the nations, kicked out from place to place every century or so, outlawed and looked down upon and treated as fourth-class citizens (and in some cases, perhaps not even citizens), stuck with the most hated of gentile work fields (like the horrible "money-lending").

It took nearly 2000 years for us to start returning to Israel. Things take time. In less than 80 years, we jumped from 600,000 Jews to 6,000,000 Jews. We started as a poor country that had to ration food for the first couple of decades - something out of the Great Depression. We were attacked multiple times and managed to come out on top every time. We've seen impressive successes in many fields: science, warfare, intelligence, economics, health, literature, art, sports, etc. Even as Jews worldwide are still being attacked - the governments of the world are attempting to protect them - at least partially because someone finally has their backs. Israel.

For the first 19 years of the State of Israel, we had no access to our holy places, while every other person - Christian, Muslim, etc - did. And then we turned things around, and we can go to our holy sites: The graves of our forefathers, the Western Wall, West Jerusalem, the Temple Mount, etc. I can certainly call that progress.

So is everything perfect? Not at all. Do we have much to be thankful for? Yes indeed.

As Zechariah said millennia ago:
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts: There shall yet old men and old women sit in the broad places of Jerusalem, every man with his staff in his hand for very age. And the broad places of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the broad places thereof." (Zech. 8:4-5)

Yes, things take time. And though Israel is a nation once again today, it is not so because the Jews turned back to God and desired to be right with God and return to their homeland and Jerusalem. They just wanted to get the hell out of Europe due to the holocaust.

Jews were doing very well in Europe prior to WWII. Do you think they had any interest in returning to a pile of rocks when they were faring very well in the Gentile world. Of course not. But because they are a nation still under the judgement of God, what is one more judgement? So after Hitler, the boats were full and the nations were willing to settle the Jews back in their land. Again, not because the obedient Jew was now wanting to follow and worship his God. But because of the horrific judgement that had befallen them and now a place was sought for them.

Yes, things take time, and God is in no hurry. He is not finished with the judgement of the 70 weeks spoken of by Daniel. To finish it, He needs Israel back in the land to finish the last week. Had he sent a prophet to them to tell them that God wants you back in Israel, they would have laughed him to scorn if not killed him too. So, he sent a Hiter. And a Stalin.

So, in this time of Grace, where salvation is offered to all through Jesus Christ, God is slowly preparing for the events of the end times where Israel's final judgement will take place during the 7 year Tribulation. And though Israel may be doing well economically and militarily at present, that can end overnight. And will one day. Just like the Jews were doing well in Europe till Hitler. 'Doing well' is not always to be interpreted as being right with God. (Ecc. 8:11) "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

I believe (Zechariah 8:4-5). As I do all the Bible. I believe (Zechariah 9:9). I believe (Zechariah 12:10). Israel will never be out from under its judgemental condition from God, till she recognizies that Jesus Christ was He. And she won't do that till God removes the blindness from her eyes which you justly received from Him due to her rejection of Christ. And He wont do that till He is finished with the 70 weeks of judgement.

Terrible times await unbelieving Israel.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Muffled · Feb 21, 2020

Harel13 said:
Not sure if this is in the right section...
Anyway, through various discussions and, at times, heated debates online with Christians on different sites these last couple of years, I've come under the impression that at least some Christians view Judaism as "Christianity minus Jesus". Certainly, I'm pretty sure this is a mindset that groups like the Hebrew Christians and Messianic Judaism have used to preach to and convert Jews.

Is this really how Christians view Judaism?

Note: This isn't about what role Christians think Jews serve in the world, but about the religion itself.

I believe I see it as flawed and unable to save and in most cases a denial of God.

Muffled · Feb 21, 2020

Jim said:
I’m not a Christian, but I identify a lot with Christians and Christianity, and I study the Christian Bible a lot, so maybe my current view of Judaism would interest you. I see it as a religion that I know virtually nothing about. Something about three main branches, maybe. Scriptures which are not exactly the same as the Christian Old Testament, and not understood in the same way even where they are the same. I picture a view of God that I like better than the Christian Trinity, more exalted. Still not sure what Jews think about anything, including Jesus.

I believe not liking God is a problem

Muffled · Feb 21, 2020

metis said:
In Catholicism, we had a terrible past vis-a-vis Jews and Judaism, and it was overwhelmingly our fault. Fortunately the Catholic Church has changed all that and apologized for our previous bigotry and morally repugnant actions. Nowadays, we have much contact with the Jewish community that often includes joint meetings and services.

Also, at least some here know that I have a had a foot in both, and I still do. I've never been of the "my way or the highway" school and, fortunately, the CC is much more that way as well. Pope Francis is pushing this even more so, btw.

I believe it is highly unlikely that inclusiveness will lead to an escape from Hell.

sooda · Feb 21, 2020

Good-Ole-Rebel said:
Yes, things take time. And though Israel is a nation once again today, it is not so because the Jews turned back to God and desired to be right with God and return to their homeland and Jerusalem. They just wanted to get the hell out of Europe due to the holocaust.

Jews were doing very well in Europe prior to WWII. Do you think they had any interest in returning to a pile of rocks when they were faring very well in the Gentile world. Of course not. But because they are a nation still under the judgement of God, what is one more judgement? So after Hitler, the boats were full and the nations were willing to settle the Jews back in their land. Again, not because the obedient Jew was now wanting to follow and worship his God. But because of the horrific judgement that had befallen them and now a place was sought for them.

Yes, things take time, and God is in no hurry. He is not finished with the judgement of the 70 weeks spoken of by Daniel. To finish it, He needs Israel back in the land to finish the last week. Had he sent a prophet to them to tell them that God wants you back in Israel, they would have laughed him to scorn if not killed him too. So, he sent a Hiter. And a Stalin.

So, in this time of Grace, where salvation is offered to all through Jesus Christ, God is slowly preparing for the events of the end times where Israel's final judgement will take place during the 7 year Tribulation. And though Israel may be doing well economically and militarily at present, that can end overnight. And will one day. Just like the Jews were doing well in Europe till Hitler. 'Doing well' is not always to be interpreted as being right with God. (Ecc. 8:11) "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

I believe (Zechariah 8:4-5). As I do all the Bible. I believe (Zechariah 9:9). I believe (Zechariah 12:10). Israel will never be out from under its judgemental condition from God, till she recognizies that Jesus Christ was He. And she won't do that till God removes the blindness from her eyes which you justly received from Him due to her rejection of Christ. And He wont do that till He is finished with the 70 weeks of judgement.

Terrible times await unbelieving Israel.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Zechariah became king of Israel in Samaria in the thirty-eighth year of Azariah, king of Judah. ( 2 Kings 15:8 ) Israel and Judah were rivals and sometimes fought each other. There was a lot of envy and hostility between them.

metis · Feb 21, 2020

Muffled said:
I believe it is highly unlikely that inclusiveness will lead to an escape from Hell.

You're wrong because I can leave RF anytime I want.

Good-Ole-Rebel · Feb 21, 2020

sooda said:
Zechariah became king of Israel in Samaria in the thirty-eighth year of Azariah, king of Judah. ( 2 Kings 15:8 ) Israel and Judah were rivals and sometimes fought each other. There was a lot of envy and hostility between them.

As usual, you misrepresent Scripture. Zechariah the prophet and Zachariah the king are not the same persons and not the same time.

Nice try.

Good-Ole-Rebel

wizanda · Feb 21, 2020

sooda said:
Rabbinic Judaism came about after the destruction of the Temple.. Nothing to do with corruption.

The reason Yeshua said not to be called Rabbi, is it is something that existed since Babylon; God said the whole congregation is on the same level, no one has a hierarchy of playing leader.

Pharisee Oral traditions are said to exist 150 years before Christ, so the corruption started in Babylon; where now Rabbinic Judaism follows the Babylonian Talmud, and Pharisaic ideas that have existed since then.

A real Jew by definition of what is in the Tanakh, would accept Yeshua as an incarnation of King David, whilst denying Christianity based on the evidence; instead they've been mislead to follow the Rabbi.

In my opinion.

Wandering Monk · Feb 21, 2020

WhyIsThatSo said:
ALL tennis balls are "balls"......but all "balls" are NOT tennis balls.

Except that Jewish people use the term Jew in a different way than you do.

Wandering Monk · Feb 21, 2020

WhyIsThatSo said:
I agree, yes they do...….and without knowledge.

That's right. They're stupid and you're enlightened. They don't even know their own history!

I suppose at some point you will bring up the Kazars.

WhyIsThatSo · Feb 21, 2020

Wandering Monk said:
That's right. They're stupid and you're enlightened. They don't even know their own history!

I suppose at some point you will bring up the Kazars.

No, they're just ignorant that's all....and I am not.
And no people "know" their own history.....they only know what they have been told.

How do Christians view Judaism?

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