Is Christian Mysticism Evil?

Essentially, the theory of Sola Scriptura is a man made doctrine. This is a fact, that cannot be refuted.

...With that being said, it can't matter if a bible-only Christian claims that mysticism as a man-made doctrine, since they are guilty of following the traditions of men themselves.

Landon Caeli said:

Essentially, the theory of Sola Scriptura is a man made doctrine. This is a fact, that cannot be refuted.

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Sure it can be refuted. I already did that in another thread of yours. Your response was to simply ignore the post.

3rdAngel said:

Sure it can be refuted. I already did that in another thread of yours. Your response was to simply ignore the post.

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Nobody has time for 10 long paragraphs of circular drivel. If you can do it in one short paragraph, maybe people will listen.

@Landon Caeli do you remember this post # 61 linked from your other OP...

The Great Deception of the Bible - Foretold in Christianity

Some Christians claim, “The Bible is all I need,” but this notion is not taught in the Bible itself. In fact, the Bible teaches the contrary idea (2 Pet. 1:20–21, 3:15–16). The “Bible alone” theory was not believed by anyone in the early Church.

It is new, having arisen only in the 1500s during the Protestant Reformation. The theory is a “tradition of men” that nullifies the Word of God, distorts the true role of the Bible, and undermines the authority of the Church Jesus established (Mark 7:1–8).

Although popular with many “Bible Christian” churches, the “Bible alone” theory simply does not work in practice. Historical experience disproves it. Each year we see additional splintering among “Bible-believing” religions.

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Responded with.....

"I believe Sola Scipture was not made up in the 1500's whatsoever. It was the belief of all those throughout time that believed and followed God through His Word *HEBREWS 11.

People only started drawing attention to it in the 1500's because the mother Church (Roman Catholic Church) started departing from what was written in the scriptures, handed down by God through the prophets, JESUS and the Apostles.

There is no such thing as the bible alone theory. I believe according to the scriptures it is biblical and always been in the scriptures as this is where we find both our faith and salvation for which there is no other way where we must be saved. JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and has given us his gift of the written Word of God in the old and new testament scriptures.

I believe it is the scriptures alone that teach sola scriptura (the Word of God alone). Jesus says we are to live by EVERY WORD of it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the scriptures (the Word of God) which leads us to faith and salvation and if we depart the Word of God we depart the faith ......

ROMANS 10:17 [17], So then FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

Now if faith comes by the Word of God and without faith it is impossible to please God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *HEBREWS 11:6; ROMANS 14:23; how can you have salvation if you have no faith when faith comes by the Word of God. If you have no word you have no faith and you are still in your sins and do not have salvation which according to the scriptures only comes by faith in God's Word (sola scriptura) see also JOHN 3:15-21; JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26.

I choose to believe and follow the Word of God as JESUS says we are to live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4.

There is nothing wrong with man made teachings and traditions if they lead us to God. However, JESUS says if we follow man made teachings and traditions that lead us to away from God to break his commandments we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9.

Any Church that leads anyone away from God's Word is leading them away from faith in God and their only hope of salvation IMO to follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God. This is the true heresy in my opinion as the scriptures teach it is only those who believe and follow Gods Word that are his people *JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26.

This is the difference I believe according to the scriptures between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10.

I believe God has his people in every church. That does not mean every Church is following God's Word. I also believe the hour is coming and now is when the true worshippers where ever they may be are being called out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God, back to the pure Word of God. *JOHN 10:16; God is a Spirit and those who whorship him must whorship him in Spirit and in truth * JOHN 4:23.

I believe the Apostle Peter when he says; We ought to obey God rather than men *ACTS 5:29.
The teachings and traditions of men do not supersede the Word of God. If they are contrary to God's Word we need to follow the example of Peter.

More on what the prophecies teach a little latter and elsewhere."

Your response was to ignore this post that refutes your OP

sojourner said:

Uh, you do understand that the Church was around before the Bible, ?

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Do you know much about the Essene culture ?

sojourner said:

and that the Bible is a product of the church, yes?

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Sorta kinda. It’s Emperor Constantine’s ‘First Council of Nicaea’ edit...of all sorts of stuff, including the Jesus stuff. If it is God’s word, then God employs emperors and committees of theologians under political pressure to get His stuff Out There.

Landon Caeli said:

Nobody has time for 10 long paragraphs of circular drivel. If you can do it in one short paragraph, maybe people will listen.

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I believe you did not like the answer as it shows why your in error and you had no way to respond to it

3rdAngel said:

@Landon Caeli do you remember this post # 61 linked from your other OP...

The Great Deception of the Bible - Foretold in Christianity


Responded with.....

"I believe Sola Scipture was not made up in the 1500's whatsoever. It was the belief of all those throughout time that believed and followed God through His Word *HEBREWS 11.

People only started drawing attention to it in the 1500's because the mother Church (Roman Catholic Church) started departing from what was written in the scriptures, handed down by God through the prophets, JESUS and the Apostles.

There is no such thing as the bible alone theory. I believe according to the scriptures it is biblical and always been in the scriptures as this is where we find both our faith and salvation for which there is no other way where we must be saved. JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and has given us his gift of the written Word of God in the old and new testament scriptures.

I believe it is the scriptures alone that teach sola scriptura (the Word of God alone). Jesus says we are to live by EVERY WORD of it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the scriptures (the Word of God) which leads us to faith and salvation and if we depart the Word of God we depart the faith ......

ROMANS 10:17 [17], So then FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

Now if faith comes by the Word of God and without faith it is impossible to please God and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *HEBREWS 11:6; ROMANS 14:23; how can you have salvation if you have no faith when faith comes by the Word of God. If you have no word you have no faith and you are still in your sins and do not have salvation which according to the scriptures only comes by faith in God's Word (sola scriptura) see also JOHN 3:15-21; JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26.

I choose to believe and follow the Word of God as JESUS says we are to live by EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4.

There is nothing wrong with man made teachings and traditions if they lead us to God. However, JESUS says if we follow man made teachings and traditions that lead us to away from God to break his commandments we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9.

Any Church that leads anyone away from God's Word is leading them away from faith in God and their only hope of salvation IMO to follow the teachings and traditions of men over the Word of God. This is the true heresy in my opinion as the scriptures teach it is only those who believe and follow Gods Word that are his people *JOHN 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26.

This is the difference I believe according to the scriptures between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10.

I believe God has his people in every church. That does not mean every Church is following God's Word. I also believe the hour is coming and now is when the true worshippers where ever they may be are being called out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God, back to the pure Word of God. *JOHN 10:16; God is a Spirit and those who whorship him must whorship him in Spirit and in truth * JOHN 4:23.

I believe the Apostle Peter when he says; We ought to obey God rather than men *ACTS 5:29.
The teachings and traditions of men do not supersede the Word of God. If they are contrary to God's Word we need to follow the example of Peter.

More on what the prophecies teach a little latter and elsewhere."

Your response was to ignore this post that refutes your OP

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Where SPECIFICALLY, does the bible say that it is to be the one and only way? And please do not use scriptures that speak about the "WORD" because "WORD" is Jesus' name - it's not the bible, LOL...

If you can ever do that, by just posting the bible verse, as requested, I'll be impressed. Until then, it can only remain a fact that Sola Scriptura is a tradition of man.

3rdAngel said:

I believe you did not like the answer as it shows why your in error and you had no way to respond to it

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No, I told you WORD is the name of Jesus Christ, and you told me I was not responding to the content of your post, but was "hand waving"... So I put you on ignore for your intellectual dishonesty.

...I'm giving you a second chance, and hoping we can have a discussion that is not all about one person preaching, while not listening.

Because you really need to improve on your listening skills. And shorten your posts.

I’m gonna take this on after all.

3rdAngel said:

The English term “mystic” comes from the Greek term, μυστικός, “mystikos,” an initiate into a mystery religion

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That’s ONE definition — but it’s out of context and therefore not cogent to this particular discussion.

3rdAngel said:

Mystery religions were cults of antiquity in which participation was reserved to initiates

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Christianity was (and is) limited to initiates. Baptism is the initiatory rite.

3rdAngel said:

Although the mystery religions were practiced in classical antiquity, the initiates understood that the mysteries were much older

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God is much older. Why wouldn’t mysticism — which provides an experience of the Divine — be older? Judaism is MUCH older than Christianity — and the Sumerian and Babylonian religions that gave us the creation narratives are much older than Judaism.

3rdAngel said:

Today, the term “mysticism” refers to the pursuit of a direct experience with the divine, the supernatural, or ultimate reality, typically through special practices intended to bring about such experiences

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Nothing illegitimate or unnatural about that. You don’t think the Magoi from the East were engaging in mysticism when they divined where Jesus was? What do you suppose happened to Simeon? Jesus with the woman at the well? Sarai? Jacob at the Jabbok? Moses when he went in to speak to God and came out with his face glowing?

3rdAngel said:

Mysticism is distinguished from normal religious faith by its emphasis on direct personal experiences that the mystic interprets as encounters with the divine

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Jesus often went apart to a lonely place to pray. Thomas stuck his fingers in Jesus’ wounds and proclaimed, “My Lord and my. God.”

3rdAngel said:

The core of mysticism is its embrace of techniques that are intended to achieve altered states of consciousness

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Define “altered states of consciousness.” What is “prayer” supposed to do, do you think? Listening to music creates altered states of consciousness. Dancing produces altered states of consciousness. The sex act produces altered states of consciousness. Sleep is an altered state of consciousness.

3rdAngel said:

There is no biblical support for mysticism in general nor for such mystical practices as chanting meditation, transcendental meditation, or astral projection

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What do you think the term “Hallelujah” (or the Latinized “alleluia”) are??? And that’s biblical! What about the Psalms? They sport repeated lines, and they were intended to be sung (read: chanted). Additionally, Christian mysticism is neither “Transcendental” nor “astral projection.”

3rdAngel said:

Mysticism, like the monasticism it has been associated with, appears to have been engrafted into Christianity (ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH; added) from Buddhism and other pagan, Eastern religions during the same period of time when countless pagan practices and beliefs entered a deeply compromised church

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Prove it. Monasticism has been part of the church since the 2nd century (that we KNOW of). The Judaic Essenes were a mystic cult. It’s rumored that Jesus was an Essene.

3rdAngel said:

Mysticism has demonstrated the ability to adapt to almost any religio-cultural circumstances

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That’s because it’s a spiritual practice and religion is organized spiritual practice.

3rdAngel said:

During the Reformation, the reformers largely rejected mysticism along with monasticism. The mystics focused upon experience, but the reformers insisted that Scripture was paramount, and its general, objective revelation superior to the personal, subjective revelations of the mystics

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do you know what else was happening during the Reformation? The Renaissance — the “age of Enlightenment.” The glorification of the mind. Nothing wrong with that, but it has served to quash the importance of the heart, intuition, wisdom. Is Christianity a head thing, or a heart thing? The Bible would seem to indicate that people honor God with their lips, but their HEARTS are not in it.

3rdAngel said:

George Fox (1624-1691), the founder of the Society of Friends (popularly known as the Quakers) created a culturally Protestant mystical sect. Fox believed that each person has an “inner light,” which Fox interpreted as Christ dwelling within us. Like almost all mystics, Fox believed and taught that Scripture was not always infallible and could be overruled by the “inner light.” Quaker worship consists of silent meditation; sometimes, a speaker will be led to speak audibly to the congregation, but often the entire hour will pass in silence. The purpose of sitting is silence is to wait for God to speak directly to the individual, i.e., to wait for a mystical experience. Like many other mystics, Quakers tend to subscribe to panentheism (the belief that God is in everything and everyone) and universalism (the belief that everyone will eventually be saved).

Given that the Quakers are mystics, it is not surprising that Quakers have been instrumental in the fairly recent, widespread introduction of mysticism into mainstream Protestant evangelical practice

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the. Society of Friends is a legitimate and beneficial facet of the Church. Unlike your cult that breeds fear and judgment.

3rdAngel said:

A mystical practice promoted under the rubric of “spiritual formation” is usually called “centering prayer” or “contemplative prayer,” but it is not prayer at all

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Of course it is. And from this post, it appears that you don’t have the slightest idea what contemplative prayer is.

3rdAngel said:

his form of meditation seeks to create a mental void where all conscious thought is blocked out.

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Nope. It seeks to create very focused concentration.

3rdAngel said:

Mystics within Christian cultures sometimes argue that at the center of one's being, there is God, and the purpose of the silence is to allow God to speak from within. They believe that the “inner light” is God who dwells within every man. But Christ directed us to pray “Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name” (Mat. 6:9). God dwells in heaven

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This is theological codswallop. The Psalmist asks where he can go to hide from God — if he climbs the highest mountain or sinks to the lowest valley, God. Is. There.

3rdAngel said:

The “silence” that mystics hope to achieve by repeating their mantra is really a trance

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No it isn’t. Again, it’s focused concentration. The contemplative technique heightens awareness — it does not seek to suppress it.

3rdAngel said:

But, of course, the power behind the mystical experiences is not God

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Of course it is. Is this not you hand-waving? Prove your statement.

3rdAngel said:

Typically, the false doctrines include at least one, and usually more than one, of the following four:

1. monism = all is one, all reality is a unified whole, with no sharp demarcation between Creator, creation and creature;
2. pantheism = everything is God, the tree, the flower, the bird the cat, the human—all are God;
3. panentheism = God is inside of everything and everyone; and
4. universalism = everyone will ultimately share in eternal life.

These four false doctrines

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Nothing false about any of these. More of your hand-waving.

3rdAngel said:

These ideas soon lead to a false ecumenism and a blurring of religious demarcations. Scripture is very clear that Jesus Christ is the only way to God the Father, and our only hope of eternal salvation

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You misunderstand what Jesus is quoted as saying. Jesus validated the Samaritans — a different religion.

3rdAngel said:

The doctrine of the atonement tends to be lost in mystical thinking; what need is there of Christ's work of mediation in the heavenly sanctuary when anyone, from any religious tradition—Buddhist, Hindu, Sufi, Christian—can have a direct, unmediated experience with God

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Substitutionary atonement is theologically untenable and reduces Christianity to judgment, fear and subjugation, rather than freedom and liberation.

3rdAngel said:

Nonsense. Since the very beginning God's people have always been about the Word only as it is only by faith in God's Word that we have God's Grace *EPHESIANS 2:8-9. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God

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Ephesians wasn’t written when the Faith began.

3rdAngel said:

Now if we only have salvation by faith in God's Word how can you have salvation without it?

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You’re forgetting the SPOKEN word.

3rdAngel said:

I am sorry we will agree to disagree. I am sorry but you quoting you because you say so does not make it so. I believe as Peter who says we ought to obey God rather than man *ACTS 5:29.

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Luke-Acts wasn’t written yet when the Faith was born.

sojourner said:

I’m gonna take this on after all.

That’s ONE definition — but it’s out of context and therefore not cogent to this particular discussion.


Christianity was (and is) limited to initiates. Baptism is the initiatory rite.


God is much older. Why wouldn’t mysticism — which provides an experience of the Divine — be older? Judaism is MUCH older than Christianity — and the Sumerian and Babylonian religions that gave us the creation narratives are much older than Judaism.

Nothing illegitimate or unnatural about that. You don’t think the Magoi from the East were engaging in mysticism when they divined where Jesus was? What do you suppose happened to Simeon? Jesus with the woman at the well? Sarai? Jacob at the Jabbok? Moses when he went in to speak to God and came out with his face glowing?


Jesus often went apart to a lonely place to pray. Thomas stuck his fingers in Jesus’ wounds and proclaimed, “My Lord and my. God.”


Define “altered states of consciousness.” What is “prayer” supposed to do, do you think? Listening to music creates altered states of consciousness. Dancing produces altered states of consciousness. The sex act produces altered states of consciousness. Sleep is an altered state of consciousness.


What do you think the term “Hallelujah” (or the Latinized “alleluia”) are??? And that’s biblical! What about the Psalms? They sport repeated lines, and they were intended to be sung (read: chanted). Additionally, Christian mysticism is neither “Transcendental” nor “astral projection.”


Prove it. Monasticism has been part of the church since the 2nd century (that we KNOW of). The Judaic Essenes were a mystic cult. It’s rumored that Jesus was an Essene.


That’s because it’s a spiritual practice and religion is organized spiritual practice.


do you know what else was happening during the Reformation? The Renaissance — the “age of Enlightenment.” The glorification of the mind. Nothing wrong with that, but it has served to quash the importance of the heart, intuition, wisdom. Is Christianity a head thing, or a heart thing? The Bible would seem to indicate that people honor God with their lips, but their HEARTS are not in it.

the. Society of Friends is a legitimate and beneficial facet of the Church. Unlike your cult that breeds fear and judgment.


Of course it is. And from this post, it appears that you don’t have the slightest idea what contemplative prayer is.


Nope. It seeks to create very focused concentration.


This is theological codswallop. The Psalmist asks where he can go to hide from God — if he climbs the highest mountain or sinks to the lowest valley, God. Is. There.


No it isn’t. Again, it’s focused concentration. The contemplative technique heightens awareness — it does not seek to suppress it.


Of course it is. Is this not you hand-waving? Prove your statement.


Nothing false about any of these. More of your hand-waving.


You misunderstand what Jesus is quoted as saying. Jesus validated the Samaritans — a different religion.

Substitutionary atonement is theologically untenable and reduces Christianity to judgment, fear and subjugation, rather than freedom and liberation.

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I am not sure how you think this post addresses the selected content you have responded to. I am also not sure wheather to feel sorry for you or for anyone that agrees with your post seeking to try to justify the occult within christianity. Then again I believe the Roman Catholic Church teachings are not christian teachings (biblical) IMO as it does not believe and follow the word of God.

sojourner said:

Ephesians wasn’t written when the Faith began. You’re forgetting the SPOKEN word.

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sojourner said:

Luke-Acts wasn’t written yet when the Faith was born.

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Two in one. Before the written Word of God there was the spoken Word of God (before Exodus). Then we have God's people in the OLD Testament that shows in HEBREWS 11 that those of the OLD testament and the NEW all live by faith in God's Word.

3rdAngel said:

I am not sure how you think this post address the selected content you have responded to.

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You always say that.
I'm now convinced that it's symbolic for "I'm stumped".

3rdAngel said:

I am also not sure wheather to feel sorry for you or for anything that agrees with your post seeking to try to justify the occult within christianity. Then again I believe the Roman Catholic Church teachings are no "christian" IMO as it does not follow the word of God.

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These are just your own opinions... The opinions of man. Just like the Sola Scriptura theory is a tradition of man, since there's no evidence from God that it comes from him.

Landon Caeli said:

You always say that.
I'm now convinced that it's symbolic for "I'm stumped". These are just your own opinions... The opinions of man.

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Ok pick anything in that post and show me what stumps me? All that was provided in that post that was only selected sections taken from context to the larger post was denial without stating any facts to prove denial. There is no factual substance to that post only no because I say so or not true because I say it is not true. Are you kidding me? I will wait for your response.

3rdAngel said:

Ok pick anything in that post and show me what stumps me? All that was provided in that post that was only selected sections taken from context to the larger post was denial without stating any facts to prove denial. I will wait for your response.

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But you still haven't shown me the scripture where the bible explicitly states that it alone is the *only* way to truth.

Landon Caeli said:

But you still haven't shown me the scripture where the bible explicitly states that it alone is the *only* way.

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If I can will you believe the scriptures Landon? YES/NO? If you say yes I believe God is calling you and will show you that the only way we can have salvation is by beleiving and following God's Word. So what is it ... YES/NO?

3rdAngel said:

If I can wil you believe the scriptures Landon? YES/NO?

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It has to *explicitly* state it... No ambiguity.

Landon Caeli said:

It has to *explicitly* state it... No ambiguity.

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Ok so let's start. To help me better understand you how do you believe we have salvation outside of believing and following God's Word?

3rdAngel said:

Ok so let's start. To help me better understand you how do you believe we have salvation outside of believing and following God's Word?

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Outside of Jesus you mean? According to our faith, Jesus (the Word) is the only way.