Need help form all jehovah's witnesses on here

In Psalms 22:29 It says all who go down to the dust will kneel before God.To me that sounds like Ecclesiastes 12:7.Also it sounds like before jesus died on the cross people's soul's were underground.Like in Ephesians 4:7-10.After Ephesians.It says Jesus will bring back people who are already fallen asleep like in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Thessalonians 16.Are the people coming back with jesus.The same ones that are in Ephesians 4:7-10?In 2 Corinthians 5:10 it says we must all appear before jesus to be judged.Also in John 5:22 It sounds like God doesn't judge anyone but jesus does.Because God has given him the right to be judge of the dead.Also if God only brought the saved out of sheol.In Ephesians 4:7-10.Are the evil in sheol still stuck there like in Ezekiel 26:20?And 1 Peter 3:19?

What gets me is I am still stuck on Ecclesiastes 9:5.

Frank Goad said:

In Psalms 22:29 It says all who go down to the dust will kneel before God.To me that sounds like Ecclesiastes 12:7.Also it sounds like before jesus died on the cross people's soul's were underground.Like in Ephesians 4:7-10.After Ephesians.It says Jesus will bring back people who are already fallen asleep like in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Thessalonians 16.Are the people coming back with jesus.The same ones that are in Ephesians 4:7-10?In 2 Corinthians 5:10 it says we must all appear before jesus to be judged.Also in John 5:22 It sounds like God doesn't judge anyone but jesus does.Because God has given him the right to be judge of the dead.Also if God only brought the saved out of sheol.In Ephesians 4:7-10.Are the evil in sheol still stuck there like in Ezekiel 26:20?

What gets me is I am still stuck on Ecclesiastes 9:5.

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Paul shared with the Christians at Thessalonica his belief that the end of the age would come in the very near future. In part an inheritance from Jewish apocalypticism, this belief held that the messianic kingdom would be ushered in by a sudden catastrophic event, at which time the heavenly Messiah would descend on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. When the first Christians accepted the idea that the man who had died on the cross was the real Messiah, they were convinced that he must return to earth to complete the work that he had begun. The manner of his second coming was conceived in accordance with the apocalyptic conceptions. This belief was common among the early Christians, and Paul accepted it along with the rest. Although the Christians were quite insistent that no one knew the exact time when this second coming would take place, they felt sure that it would occur during the lifetime of those who were then members of the Christian community.

After Paul left Thessalonica, some of the people who belonged to the church died. Because Jesus had not returned, serious doubts arose in the minds of those Thessalonians who were still living, for they had been led to believe that Jesus the Messiah would return before any of them died.

As they saw it, Paul was mistaken on this point, which then caused them to wonder whether he might also be mistaken on other points as well. Obviously, an explanation of some kind was in order, and this situation, more than any other single factor, prompted the writing of Paul's First Epistle to the Thessalonians.

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1 and 2 Thessalonians

Thr dead know not anything. They are completely unconscious. They are not suffering torture and they are not walking on streets of gold in Heaven. But Christ will return and raise them from their graves just as He rose from the dead. Then they will again be aware of what is going on around them. Just like when you are asleep, you do not know what is going on. Then you wake up and again are aware of what is happening.

lostwanderingsoul said:

Thr dead know not anything. They are completely unconscious. They are not suffering torture and they are not walking on streets of gold in Heaven. But Christ will return and raise them from their graves just as He rose from the dead. Then they will again be aware of what is going on around them. Just like when you are asleep, you do not know what is going on. Then you wake up and again are aware of what is happening.

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The Thessalonians were Jews and hadn't been Christians for very long.. Maybe a matter of months. All the Disciples and Paul expected Jesus to return very soon. This was to encourage the Thessalonians who were afraid their relatives who had died before the return of Jesus would miss the boat.

This explains it very well.

1 and 2 Thessalonians

Frank Goad said:

In Psalms 22:29 It says all who go down to the dust will kneel before God. To me that sounds like Ecclesiastes 12:7. Also it sounds like before jesus died on the cross people's soul's were underground. Like in Ephesians 4:7-10.After Ephesians.It says Jesus will bring back people who are already fallen asleep like in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Thessalonians 16. Are the people coming back with jesus. The same ones that are in Ephesians 4:7-10?In 2 Corinthians 5:10 it says we must all appear before jesus to be judged. Also in John 5:22 It sounds like God doesn't judge anyone but jesus does. Because God has given him the right to be judge of the dead. Also if God only brought the saved out of sheol.In Ephesians 4:7-10. Are the evil in sheol still stuck there like in Ezekiel 26:20?And 1 Peter 3:19?

What gets me is I am still stuck on Ecclesiastes 9:5.

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OK...so if Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that the dead are not conscious, with no ability to think, plan or to do anything, what is it that is confusing you?
Souls are not spirits...."souls" are living breathing creatures, both human and animal. Those "souls" (bodies) in the grave are "sleeping".

Their "spirit" (breath) can only be returned to them in a resurrection to life here on earth. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

There are two resurrections spoken of in the Bible.....one to life on earth which is a return to one's former life and a reunion with lost loved ones here in the flesh.....and there is another resurrection that only became known to the followers of Jesus Christ. The Jews had faith in the resurrection and they knew it was to take place in the future, at the time when God's Kingdom would rule this earth.
Remember that Lazarus' sister spoke of this?

John 11:19-24...
"And many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them concerning their brother. 20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him; but Mary kept sitting at home. 21 Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

The "last day", is the thousand year reign of Christ, it is the concluding part of the 7th day, (the only day in the Genesis account without a conclusion) so, with the rule of his kingdom bringing redeemed mankind back into a reconciliation with God, all returns to the way it should be. It is a time of education and rejoicing as Jesus restores the lives of all who have died, (John 5:28-29) but the 'other' resurrection that is spoken about is the spiritual resurrection of those who will rule with Christ in heaven. It is called "the first resurrection" because it takes place first, with the "chosen ones" being taken to their heavenly home upon their death in this "time of the end". This is the time when Jesus said that all the 'signs' indicating his "presence" would be clearly seen.

When the end comes, and Jesus comes as judge of all the world, he will indeed bring with him his kings and priests (Revelation 20:6) along with his angelic army.

There are three kinds of people in the grave....the "righteous"...the "unrighteous" and the wicked. Jesus promises to resurrect 'both the righteous and the unrighteous', but there is no resurrection for the incorrigibly wicked.....gehenna is eternal death. There is no coming back from gehenna. Many of the "unrighteous" will have lived and died without ever hearing about God and the Kingdom message, which is why, in this judgment period, people of today will have no excuse. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)

Jesus went to the "spirits in prison" who were identified as those who were disobedient in Noah's day...these are the disobedient angels who became demons, and were forced back into the spirit realm when God brought the flood that destroyed their violent and immoral offspring along with those who were influenced by them.

There is no "heaven or hell" scenario in the Bible and never has been. There is just life or death. There are no spirits of dead people. The only spirits that exist are angels and demons.

Frank Goad said:

In Psalms 22:29 It says all who go down to the dust will kneel before God.To me that sounds like Ecclesiastes 12:7.Also it sounds like before jesus died on the cross people's soul's were underground.Like in Ephesians 4:7-10.After Ephesians.It says Jesus will bring back people who are already fallen asleep like in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Thessalonians 16.Are the people coming back with jesus.The same ones that are in Ephesians 4:7-10?In 2 Corinthians 5:10 it says we must all appear before jesus to be judged.Also in John 5:22 It sounds like God doesn't judge anyone but jesus does.Because God has given him the right to be judge of the dead.Also if God only brought the saved out of sheol.In Ephesians 4:7-10.Are the evil in sheol still stuck there like in Ezekiel 26:20?And 1 Peter 3:19?

What gets me is I am still stuck on Ecclesiastes 9:5.

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Hi Frank, I will try to assist sir. The whole of Psalms 22 is about the coming Messiah, and how life will result through him. No one as verse 29 points out will be able to preserve their own soul alive. Ecc 12:7 is referring to death Frank, no relation to the scripture in Psalms 22. The spirit that returned to God was the life force (ruach, compare Ps 146:4). Man was made from ground, the original pronouncement to Adam and Eve after their sin was dust you are and to dust you will return, Ec 12:7 is referring to that when a person dies.

Eph 4:7-10 was pointing out that Jesus returned to heaven, however the disciples were not left to fend for themselves, rather shepherds were provided to feed Jesus’ sheep; God’s people.

The account at 1 Thes 4, is referring to those who have been purchased through the blood of the lamb to by Kings and Priests with Jesus in the heavenly Kingdom of God.

2 Cor 5:10, you are correct sir, the keys to life and death were given to Jesus, he has been delegated the judging of mankind. John 5:22 confirms your statement that judging is in the hand of Jesus.

Sheol is a word found in the original writings which were written in Hebrew. The word is translated in the King James version in English 3 ways, 31x as hell, 31x as grave, and 3x as pit. Grave is the best for understanding, as that is what it is. Upon death you go to the grave to await a resurrection. Rom 6:7There are no saved or unsaved in the grave, and the Bible specifically stated that all will be resurrected out of it Rev 20:13.

Ecc 9:5, 6, 10 define death sir.

I hope I have been of help Frank, and that it is clear as mud to you J. Till next time Bob

i like the illustration that compared the spirit of a soul to the flame on a lit candle . when the flame is snuffed out ,where does the flame go ?? no where . it just go's out ,its gone ,and yet the candle can be relit . man can relight the candle but. Jesus has been given the power to put life back in to whom he chooses .

Frank Goad said:

In Psalms 22:29 It says all who go down to the dust will kneel before God.To me that sounds like Ecclesiastes 12:7.Also it sounds like before jesus died on the cross people's soul's were underground.Like in Ephesians 4:7-10.After Ephesians.It says Jesus will bring back people who are already fallen asleep like in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and 1 Thessalonians 16.Are the people coming back with jesus.The same ones that are in Ephesians 4:7-10?In 2 Corinthians 5:10 it says we must all appear before jesus to be judged.Also in John 5:22 It sounds like God doesn't judge anyone but jesus does.Because God has given him the right to be judge of the dead.Also if God only brought the saved out of sheol.In Ephesians 4:7-10.Are the evil in sheol still stuck there like in Ezekiel 26:20?And 1 Peter 3:19?

What gets me is I am still stuck on Ecclesiastes 9:5.

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I don't get Psalms 22:29 and Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Frank Goad said:

I don't get Psalms 22:29 and Ecclesiastes 12:7.

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You are comparing oranges and lemons.....if you read the whole Psalm, you will see references to Jesus.
The opening verse in Psalm 22 is “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” which was uttered by Jesus as his life was ebbing away.

Verse 18 says...
“They divide my garments among themselves, And they cast lots for my clothing.”
We know that this happened with Jesus’ garments.

Verse 29...”All those going down to the dust will kneel before him;
None of them can preserve their lives.”

Since none of them can preserve their lives, they must rely on Jesus to restore their lives as God promised.
Those whom Jesus resurrects will kneel before him as King of God’s kingdom.
Philippians 2:10 says something similar...”so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground”.

The spirit (breath) that restores a person to life, rests with God.
He has appointed his son to administer his kingdom....so we could not be in better hands.