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Is Christian Mysticism Evil?

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
To me, someone who has a mystical orientation is concerned with closeness to the divine and not to rituals and ceremonies. He or she wants the essence not rote superficiality.

That to me is positive.

Interestingly, some aspects of mysticism can be frightening as a person begins to look beyond the barrier of "self" as a defiing aspect of reality. There are some truly frightening descriptions of the mystical experience as well (which is sometimes separate from mysticism since they can be experienced by those who don't seek them), with descents into voids, and being drawn into nothingness.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
To me, someone who has a mystical orientation is concerned with closeness to the divine and not to rituals and ceremonies. He or she wants the essence not rote superficiality.

That to me is positive.
That's not necessarily true. There is a lot of ceremony to mysticism. That's because mysticism makes great use of the symbolic.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What is Christian mysticism ?
The Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms defines mysticism as: "The direct apprehension of the divine or the numinous in an unmediated awareness."

It defines "Christian mysticism" as: "The experience of union with God by the bond of love that is beyond human power to attain and that brings a sense of direct knowledge of and fellowship with god centered in Jesus Christ."
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
What do you mean with Mysticism?

I find the concept of theosis interesting... to me, this is the first step in Christian mysticism.

"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God"
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Interestingly, some aspects of mysticism can be frightening as a person begins to look beyond the barrier of "self" as a defiing aspect of reality. There are some truly frightening descriptions of the mystical experience as well (which is sometimes separate from mysticism since they can be experienced by those who don't seek them), with descents into voids, and being drawn into nothingness.
That's true. There's a readiness question as well.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
That's not necessarily true. There is a lot of ceremony to mysticism. That's because mysticism makes great use of the symbolic.
I agree. It would be better for me to refer to superficial ceremonies. People can go to church and sing about God and Love while really wanting to be somewhere else. The Simpson's has skewered this innumerable times.

If a ceremony is approached wholeheartedly, it's quite a different matter.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I was just curious if there were any warnings that need to be heeded in regards to Mysticism. I'd especially like to hear from Protestants, but the question is open to all.

Thanks,
Landon

Is Christian Mysticism evil? About as much as Christianity is on the whole most likely.

Are there warnings to heed? Yes, if you are not accustomed to thinking and experiencing spiritual truths without strict adherence to dogma, then you should be forewarned that mystical experience often contradicts or transcends dogma.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Yep. It ('Christian Mysticism') is a contradiction in terms.


I watched over 3 minutes of your anti-Catholic propaganda video, and saw nothing relating to the topic of this thread (mysticism). So I shut it off.

But many of the Desert Fathers, and Saints of the Church were mystics... Why were they wrong for being such in your opinion?
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
The Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms defines mysticism as: "The direct apprehension of the divine or the numinous in an unmediated awareness."

It defines "Christian mysticism" as: "The experience of union with God by the bond of love that is beyond human power to attain and that brings a sense of direct knowledge of and fellowship with god centered in Jesus Christ."

Thanks for that.
I would like to hear from Christians on RF what they think it means, and particularly why any of them would object to it.

What exactly are you afraid of ? Do you believe your saviour would allow a genuine will to surrender to God to cause your downfall ?
That seems to me to contradict everything Jesus said.

To me, that definition describes what I assumed was the basis of faith of any Christian.
If that isn’t the case, then why do I read so many posts from Christians stating that their faith is based on their experience of God ? Isn’t that an affirmation of Christian mysticism ?

And if not, then what do such claims and statements amount to ?

This isn’t just a Christian thing either. Lots of Buddhists are squeamish about talking about nirvana, or enlightened mind, as a personal experience, as if that was necessarily an exaggerated claim, verging on messianic.

It is as though there is a slave mentality which says “We are all ignorant bozos. Do not ever claim to be any better than that or we will bring you down, because you are setting the bar too high for us”.
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
Is Christian Mysticism evil? About as much as Christianity is on the whole most likely.

Are there warnings to heed? Yes, if you are not accustomed to thinking and experiencing spiritual truths without strict adherence to dogma, then you should be forewarned that mystical experience often contradicts or transcends dogma.

Well said.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
...But many of the Desert Fathers, and Saints of the Church were mystics... Why were they wrong for being such ...?
Yep. Thy were speaking to that angel of lie-ght (2 Corinthians 11:4).

I actually used to minister (for a brief time, as time goes), as a Roman Catholic (which I was for 30 years), in such an specialized ministry that dealt with such things, that even EWTN said were "expert in their field". So, I know what I have seen, witnessed.
 

3rdAngel

Well-Known Member
WHY I AM NOT A MYSTIC

The English term “mystic” comes from the Greek term, μυστικός, “mystikos,” an initiate into a mystery religion. Mystery religions were cults of antiquity in which participation was reserved to initiates. Although the mystery religions were practiced in classical antiquity, the initiates understood that the mysteries were much older. One of the popular Roman mystery religions, for example, was Mithraism, which took its name from an old Persian god named Mithra, a name that appears in archeological finds dating to 1,500 BC. That Mitra is still a popular surname in India gives some indication of how geographically widespread the cult of Mithra was, in its various forms. Today, the term “mysticism” refers to the pursuit of a direct experience with the divine, the supernatural, or ultimate reality, typically through special practices intended to bring about such experiences. Mysticism is distinguished from normal religious faith by its emphasis on direct personal experiences that the mystic interprets as encounters with the divine. Mysticism has usually been pursued within the context of monasticism; monks and nuns typically live a life of solitude and silence conducive to mystical practices. The core of mysticism is its embrace of techniques that are intended to achieve altered states of consciousness.

Mysticism is not part of biblical Christianity. There is no biblical support for mysticism in general nor for such mystical practices as chanting meditation, transcendental meditation, or astral projection. Mysticism, like the monasticism it has been associated with, appears to have been engrafted into Christianity (ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH; added) from Buddhism and other pagan, Eastern religions during the same period of time when countless pagan practices and beliefs entered a deeply compromised church. Roman Catholic mysticism is simply a thinly “Christianized” form of Eastern mysticism. Mysticism has demonstrated the ability to adapt to almost any religio-cultural circumstances.

During the Reformation, the reformers largely rejected mysticism along with monasticism. The mystics focused upon experience, but the reformers insisted that Scripture was paramount, and its general, objective revelation superior to the personal, subjective revelations of the mystics. Martin Luther's insistence on the superiority of Scripture to mystical experience is seen in his rejection of the theology of Thomas Müntzer (1489-1525, executed for his role in the Peasants' War), who was heavily influenced by the Rhineland Mystic, Johannes Tauler (1300-1361). Müntzer's theology was based upon mystical experience; he began to teach the supremacy of the “inner light,” which he interpreted as the revelation of the Holy Spirit, as against the authority of Scripture. Luther's response was to declare that he would still accept Scripture even if Müntzer “had swallowed the Holy Ghost, feathers and all!”

George Fox (1624-1691), the founder of the Society of Friends (popularly known as the Quakers) created a culturally Protestant mystical sect. Fox believed that each person has an “inner light,” which Fox interpreted as Christ dwelling within us. Like almost all mystics, Fox believed and taught that Scripture was not always infallible and could be overruled by the “inner light.” Quaker worship consists of silent meditation; sometimes, a speaker will be led to speak audibly to the congregation, but often the entire hour will pass in silence. The purpose of sitting is silence is to wait for God to speak directly to the individual, i.e., to wait for a mystical experience. Like many other mystics, Quakers tend to subscribe to panentheism (the belief that God is in everything and everyone) and universalism (the belief that everyone will eventually be saved).

Given that the Quakers are mystics, it is not surprising that Quakers have been instrumental in the fairly recent, widespread introduction of mysticism into mainstream Protestant evangelical practice. Richard Foster and Dallas Willard crossed paths in a small Quaker church in Van Nuys, California, when Willard (though a Southern Baptist) was attending there and Foster was called there as a young pastor fresh out of seminary. Both men have been important writers and theorists promoting mystical practices in wider Christianity, but Foster has been especially important. Foster's 1978 book, “The Celebration of Discipline” was a huge bestseller; Christianity Today listed it as one of the top ten Christian books of the 20th Century. Yet Foster promotes the practice known as astral projection:

In your imagination allow your spiritual body, shining with light, to rise out of your physical body. Look back so you can see yourself … and reassure your body that you will return momentarily ….Go deeper and deeper into outer space until there is nothing except the warm presence of the eternal creator. Rest in his presence. Listen quietly...[to] any instruction given. p. 27.

A mystical practice promoted under the rubric of “spiritual formation” is usually called “centering prayer” or “contemplative prayer,” but it is not prayer at all. It is an Eastern meditative practice known as chanting meditation or transcendental meditation. This form of meditation seeks to create a mental void where all conscious thought is blocked out. To achieve this mental void—known as “the silence”--the person repeats a single word or short phrase over and over. In Hinduism, this phrase is known as a “mantra.” The mantra may need to be repeated 20, 30, or even hundreds of times to achieve the mental void. In teaching His followers how to pray, Jesus warned against using “vain repetitions, as the heathen do,” because God hears us the first time we say something (Mat. 6:7). But, again, “contemplative prayer” or “centering prayer” is not prayer; rather, it is a technique for bringing about a mystical experience.

The goal of this technique is the mental void or the silence. Mystics within Christian cultures sometimes argue that at the center of one's being, there is God, and the purpose of the silence is to allow God to speak from within. They believe that the “inner light” is God who dwells within every man. But Christ directed us to pray “Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name” (Mat. 6:9). God dwells in heaven (1 Kings 8:43; 2 Chron. 6:30; Psalm 103:19; Mat. 5:45; 23:9), which is an actual place (Acts 1:11; Heb. 1:3; 8:1, 5; 9:24; 1 Pet. 3:22; Rev. 4:1-2). Mystics quote Luke 17:21, “the kingdom of God is within you” as evidence that God lives inside every person, but the Greek word translated as “within” can also be translated “among,” and it is clear from the context that Christ is not saying that the kingdom of God is inside of us. The Pharisees had asked Jesus when the kingdom of God would come, and Jesus responded that the kingdom of God [Jesus Himself] is among you right now. In the following verses, Jesus points out that his Second Advent will also be a visible, physical appearance, just like His first Advent.

The “silence” that mystics hope to achieve by repeating their mantra is really a trance, and it is properly understood as a form of self-hypnosis. When a person is in an hypnotic trance, he is highly susceptible to suggestion. In Christian cultures, proponents of this technique would have us believe that we will encounter the God of the Bible in this meditative trance. But the fact that the technique is not authorized in Scripture, and originated and is commonly used in Eastern religions, suggests that we might encounter some other spirit. Adventist pastor Rick Howard writes:

. . .when a person enters this silence . . . they are entering a place where the powers of evil angels can create whatever illusion they desire. . . . the modern-day Christian, upon entering the silence, will believe they have come into the presence of God, when in reality they are under the control of the same demons as the psychics, spirit mediums, and ancient mystics of the church, those of any religion or group that relies on supernatural experiences as evidence of their contact with God” The Omega Rebellion, p. 51

The spirits that work in the silence will work within a given mystic's belief system. They will not—at least not at first—suggest anything alien or contrary to the mystic's existing belief system. Ray Yungen writes:

Please pay attention to this! God does not work in the silence, but familiar spirits do. Moreover, what makes it so dangerous is that they are very clever. One well known New Ager revealed that his guiding (familiar) spirit candidly disclosed: 'We work with all who are vibrationally sympathetic; simple and sincere people who feel our spirit moving, but for the most part, only within the context of their current belief system.'” A Time of Departing, p. 87

What tends to happen over time, however, is that the mystic enjoys the mystical experiences more than any other aspect of his faith. The experiences are called “extremely pleasurable” and even “ecstatic.” The mystic eventually places more credence in his personal experiences than in Scripture. This makes perfect sense, because the mystic believes he is experiencing God, so why give more credence to an old book than to God?

But, of course, the power behind the mystical experiences is not God, and it gradually and almost imperceptibly leads the mystic toward false doctrine. Typically, the false doctrines include at least one, and usually more than one, of the following four:

  1. monism = all is one, all reality is a unified whole, with no sharp demarcation between Creator, creation and creature;
  2. pantheism = everything is God, the tree, the flower, the bird the cat, the human—all are God;
  3. panentheism = God is inside of everything and everyone; and
  4. universalism = everyone will ultimately share in eternal life.
These four false doctrines crop up so frequently in mystical thinking across the ages and across the boundaries of culture and formal religion that the demons working the “silence” beat must all be following the same playbook.

These ideas soon lead to a false ecumenism and a blurring of religious demarcations. Scripture is very clear that Jesus Christ is the only way to God the Father, and our only hope of eternal salvation; those who do not have Christ are lost. (John 3:16, 36; 14:6; 1 John 5:12). But mysticism chafes at such dualistic, black/white, right/wrong thinking, emphasizing oneness and universalism instead.

The doctrine of the atonement tends to be lost in mystical thinking; what need is there of Christ's work of mediation in the heavenly sanctuary when anyone, from any religious tradition—Buddhist, Hindu, Sufi, Christian—can have a direct, unmediated experience with God? The mystic removes 'sin' by performing meditative exercises to bring himself into a perceived state of oneness with God. The atonement, the sanctuary, and most of the rest of the Bible make little sense in a mystical context. This isn't surprising because mysticism is external to, and long pre-dates, Christianity. (Advindicate)
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Yep. Thy were speaking to that angel of lie-ght (2 Corinthians 11:4).

I know, I know... We've all seen biblical verses used out of context as weapons before. It's nothing new. Your hatred has been duly noted. Also noted, is your refusal to answer my question:
But many of the Desert Fathers, and Saints of the Church were mystics... Why were they wrong for being such in your opinion?

...But what's sad is that the legitimacy of your denomination hinges almost entirely upon proving mine wrong. And all your exchanges with me thus far have been only to proselytize me. It's truly pathetic.
 
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