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God is everywhere; is God in Hell?

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
God is everywhere

G-d is everywhere with his attributes.
G-d is not a physical being, everything physical and spiritual is His creation.

Yes, He controls everything. Right, please?

Regards
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? I don't think it matters if Hell is literal or figurative. It's a place where condemned and punished souls are sent by God. Even if Hell is separation from God, where do the souls go? Is God not there also. Please explain the seeming paradox to me. How can an omnipotent and omnipresent God not be somewhere. To me, that negates God’s omni-everything. So, given that God is everywhere, as we were taught by Sister Mary Discipline of the Sisters of No Mercy, is God in Hell along with the tortured souls he sentenced there? Does he exist there?


Very Good! You Question. It's easy to see how religion does not add up.

In reality, Hell only exists in the mind. The idea is used to gain followers or as an attempt to control the actions and choices of others.

Mankind is a controlling lot. It is one of the petty things we must all learn to let go of.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
Not a problem. It was a curiosity that seems to go against the largely dualistic beliefs of most of Christianity.

Exactly...not a problem. Hell is for a purpose created by God. The judgement fire of Hell has an affect on those in judgement. It has no affect on God.

Sort of like Shadrach, Meshach, Abed-nego, and the Son of God. (Daniel 3:24-25)

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? ...
You have a misunderstanding about the "omnipresent" part. God is "omnipresent" through His "omniscience" (Psalms 139). The Father's Person is actually "in Heaven" (Matthew 6:9, 16:17; Luke 11:2, etc).

You also have a misunderstanding in regards "hell".






What Happens When You Die? | Truth About Death

Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth

Ghosts: Who Are They? | Ghost Truth

Where Do People Go When They Die?

Plenty more resources here -

Library of Resources: - SDA Maranatha Multicultural Church in American Samoa

As for Instance:

Is The Virgin Mary Dead Or Alive – Danny Vierra (PDF)

The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01 – LeRoy Edwin Froom (PDF)

The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02 – LeRoy Edwin Froom (PDF)

Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead – Secrets Unsealed – Stephen Bohr (PDF)

Study Guide 10 – Are The Dead Really Dead – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Study Guide 11 – Is The Devil In Charge Of Hell – Amazing Facts (PDF)

The Afterlife Mystery – Doug Batchelor – Amazing Facts – AFScan (PDF)

The Final Mystery – Book – Doug Batchelor – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Storacles Of Prophecy 09 – The Witch Of Endor – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Storacles Of Prophecy 10 – Cities Of Ash – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Amazing Adventure Study Guide 08 – Whistling Through The Graveyard – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Absent From The Body – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Library Of Sermons 10 – Spirits From Other Worlds – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Library Of Sermons 15 – Hell-fire A Twisted Truth Untangled – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Library Of Sermons 18 – Spirits Of The Dead – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Library Of Sermons 24 – Heaven Is It For Real – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Library Of Sermons 28 – The Rich Man And Lazarus – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)

Marian Messages An Insider Look At Catholicisms Visions And Teachings – Vance Ferrell (PDF)

Witchcraft Ruins Lives – Vance Ferrell (PDF)

The Great Controversy (1911) – Ellen G White (PDF)

Hidden Truth Magazine – Amazing Facts (PDF)

With more evidence from scripture as necessary. Just ask about the text or passage. Fa'afetai lava.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? ...
You have a misunderstanding about the "omnipresent" part. God is "omnipresent" through His "omniscience" (Psalms 139). The Father's Person is actually "in Heaven" (Matthew 6:9, 16:17; Luke 11:2, etc).

God is omnipresent through omniscience, as it is written:

Psalms 139:1 KJB - To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.

Psalms 139:2 KJB - Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Psalms 139:3 KJB - Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

Psalms 139:4 KJB - For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

Psalms 139:5 KJB - Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

Psalms 139:6 KJB - Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

Psalms 139:7 KJB - Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

Psalms 139:8 KJB - If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Psalms 139:9 KJB - If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

Psalms 139:10 KJB - Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

Psalms 139:11 KJB - If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

Psalms 139:12 KJB - Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Psalms 139:13 KJB - For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

Psalms 139:14 KJB - I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Psalms 139:15 KJB - My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

Psalms 139:16 KJB - Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Psalms 139:17 KJB - How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

Psalms 139:18 KJB - If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

Psalms 139:19 KJB - Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

Psalms 139:20 KJB - For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

Psalms 139:21 KJB - Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Psalms 139:22 KJB - I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Psalms 139:23 KJB - Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Psalms 139:24 KJB - And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

1 John 3:20 KJB - For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.​

The Father is in a specific location, Heaven [3rd]:


Matthew 5:16 KJB - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:45 KJB - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5:48 KJB - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 6:1 KJB - Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:9 KJB - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Matthew 7:11 KJB - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matthew 7:21 KJB - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:32 KJB - Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:33 KJB - But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50 KJB - For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Matthew 16:17 KJB - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:10 KJB - Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14 KJB - Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Matthew 18:19 KJB - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 23:9 KJB - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mark 11:25 KJB - And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 KJB - But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 11:2 KJB - And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Luke 15:21 KJB - And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

1 John 5:7 KJB - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.​

Jesus Christ is in a specific location in Heaven [3rd], having ascended unto the Father:


Luke 24:51 KJB - And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

John 17:11 KJB - And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Acts 1:9 KJB - And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1:10 KJB - And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Acts 1:11 KJB - Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 7:55 KJB - But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:56 KJB - And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Ephesians 4:9 KJB - (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 KJB - He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Revelation 12:5 KJB - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.​

The person of the Holy Ghost/Spirit is now on earth:


Revelation 5:6 KJB - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Acts 2:33 KJB - Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 8:29 KJB - Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Acts 16:7 KJB - After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Psalms 133:1 KJB - A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Psalms 133:2 KJB - It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

Psalms 133:3 KJB - As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.

John 14:16 KJB - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 KJB - Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.​

How then does the Holy Ghost/Spirit dwell in each, well there are some mysteries involved, but we also know that it is through the word of God:

John 14:23 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 15:7 KJB - If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

John 15:26 KJB - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13 KJB - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:14 KJB - He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 16:15 KJB - All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 17:17 KJB - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.​
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? ...
You have a misunderstanding about the "omnipresent" part. God is "omnipresent" through His "omniscience" (Psalms 139). The Father's Person is actually "in Heaven" (Matthew 6:9, 16:17; Luke 11:2, etc).
Just food for thought:

"... PERSONALITY OF GOD

MAN was made in the image of God. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him." Gen.i,26,27. See also chap.ix,6; 1Cor.xi,7. Those who deny the personality of God, say that "image" here does not mean physical form, but moral image, and they make this the grand starting point to prove the immortality of all men. The argument stands thus: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is an immortal being. Third, therefore all men are immortal. But this mode of reasoning would also prove man omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and thus clothe mortal man with all the attributes of the deity. Let us try it: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Third, therefore, man is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. That which proves too much, proves nothing to the point, therefore the position that the image of God means his moral image, cannot be sustained. As proof that God is a person, read his own words to Moses: "And the Lord said, Behold there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock; and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by. And I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see my [2] back parts; but my face shall not be seen." Ex.xxxiii,21-23. See also chap.xxiv,9-11. Here God tells Moses that he shall see his form. To say that God made it appear to Moses that he saw his form, when he has no form, is charging God with adding to falsehood a sort of juggling deception upon his servant Moses. {1861 JW, PERGO 1.1}

But the skeptic thinks he sees a contradiction between verse 11, which says that the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, and verse 20, which states that Moses could not see his face. But let Num.xii,5-8 remove the difficulty. "And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam, and they both came forth. And he said, Hear now my words. If there be a prophet among you, I, the Lord, will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently." {1861 JW, PERGO 2.1}

The great and dreadful God came down, wrapped in a cloud of glory. This cloud could be seen, but not the face which possesses more dazzling brightness than a thousand suns. Under these circumstances Moses was permitted to draw near and converse with God face to face, or mouth to mouth, even apparently. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.2}

Says the prophet Daniel, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hairs of his head like the pure wool; his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Chap.vii,9. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him, and [3] there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom." Verses 13, 14. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.3}

Here is a sublime description of the action of two personages; viz, God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ. Deny their personality, and there is not a distinct idea in these quotations from Daniel. In connection with this quotation read the apostle's declaration that the Son was in the express image of his Father's person. "God, who at sundry times, and in divers manners, spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person." Heb.i,1-3. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.1}

We here add the testimony of Christ. "And the Father himself which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." John v,37. See also Phil.ii,6. To say that the Father has not a personal shape, seems the most pointed contradiction of plain scripture terms.

OBJECTION. - "God is a Spirit." John iv,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.2}

ANSWER. - Angels are also spirits [Ps.civ,4], yet those that visited Abram and Lot, lay down, ate, and took hold of Lot's hand. They were spirit beings. So is God a Spirit being. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.3}

OBJ. - God is everywhere. Proof. Ps.cxxxix,1-8. He is as much in every place as in any one place. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.4}

ANS. - 1. God is everywhere by virtue of his omniscience, as will be seen by the very words of David referred to above. Verses 1-6. "O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my down-sitting and mine uprising; thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a [4] word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thy hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high; I cannot attain unto it." {1861 JW, PERGO 3.5}

2. God is everywhere by virtue of his Spirit, which is his representative, and is manifested wherever he pleases, as will be seen by the very words the objector claims, referred to above. Verses 7-10. "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." {1861 JW, PERGO 4.1}

God is in heaven. This we are taught in the Lord's prayer. "Our Father which art in heaven." Matt.vi,9; Luke xi,2. But if God is as much in every place as he is in any one place, then heaven is also as much in every place as it is in any one place, and the idea of going to heaven is all a mistake. We are all in heaven; and the Lord's prayer, according to this foggy theology simply means, Our Father which art everywhere, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is everywhere. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.2}

Again, Bible readers have believed that Enoch and Elijah were really taken up to God in heaven. But if God and heaven be as much in every place as in any one place, this is all a mistake. They were not translated. And all that is said about the chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and the attending whirlwind to take Elijah up into heaven, was a useless parade. They only evaporated, and a misty vapor passed through the entire universe. This is all of Enoch and Elijah that the mind can possibly grasp, admitting that God and heaven are [5] no more in any one place than in every place. But it is said of Elijah that he "went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2Kings ii,11. And of Enoch it is said that he "walked with God, and was not, for God took him." Gen.v,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.3}

Jesus is said to be on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Heb.i,3. "So, then, after the Lord had spoken unto them he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Mark xvi,19. But if heaven be everywhere, and God everywhere, then Christ's ascension up to heaven, at the Father's right hand, simply means that he went everywhere! He was only taken up where the cloud hid him from the gaze of his disciples, and then evaporated and went everywhere! So that instead of the lovely Jesus, so beautifully described in both Testaments, we have only a sort of essence dispersed through the entire universe. And in harmony with this rarified theology, Christ's second advent, or his return, would be the condensation of this essence to some locality, say the mount of Olivet! Christ arose from the dead with a physical form. "He is not here," said the angel, "for he is risen as he said." Matt.xxviii,6. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.1}

"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail! And they came and held him by the feet, and they worshiped him." Verse 9. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.2}

"Behold my hands and my feet," said Jesus to those who stood in doubt of his resurrection, "that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honey-comb, and he took it and did eat before them." Luke xxiv,39-43. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.3} [6]

After Jesus addressed his disciples on the mount of Olivet, he was taken up from them, and a cloud received him out of their sight. "And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel, which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts i,9-11. J. W. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.1}​
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? ...
You have a misunderstanding about the "omnipresent" part. God is "omnipresent" through His "omniscience" (Psalms 139). The Father's Person is actually "in Heaven" (Matthew 6:9, 16:17; Luke 11:2, etc).

IMMATERIALITY

THIS is but another name for nonentity. It is the negative of all things and beings - of all existence. There is not one particle of proof to be advanced to establish its existence. It has no way to manifest itself to any intelligence in heaven or on earth. Neither God, angels, nor men could possibly conceive of such a substance, being, or thing. It possesses no property or power by which to make itself manifest to any intelligent being in the universe. Reason and analogy never scan it, or even conceive of it. Revelation never reveals it, nor do any of our senses witness its existence. It cannot be seen, felt, heard, tasted, or smelled, even by the strongest organs, or the most acute sensibilities. It is neither liquid nor solid, soft nor hard - it can neither extend nor contract. In short, it can exert no influence whatever - it can neither act nor be acted upon. And even if it does exist, it can be of no possible use. It possesses no one, desirable property, faculty, or use, yet, strange to say, immateriality is the modern Christian's God, his anticipated heaven, his immortal self - his all! {1861 JW, PERGO 6.2}

O sectarianism! O atheism!! O annihilation!!! [7]

who can perceive the nice shades of difference between the one and the other? They seem alike, all but in name. The atheist has no God. The sectarian has a God without body or parts. Who can define the difference? For our part we do not perceive a difference of a single hair; they both claim to be the negative of all things which exist - and both are equally powerless and unknown. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.3}

The atheist has no after life, or conscious existence beyond the grave. The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial, like his God; and without body or parts. Here again both are negative, and both arrive at the same point. Their faith and hope amount to the same; only it is expressed by different terms. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.1}

Again, the atheist has no heaven in eternity. The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial in all its properties, and is therefore the negative of all riches and substances. Here again they are equal, and arrive at the same point. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.2}

As we do not envy them the possession of all they claim, we will now leave them in the quiet and undisturbed enjoyment of the same, and proceed to examine the portion still left for the despised materialist to enjoy. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.3}

What is God? He is material, organized intelligence, possessing both body and parts. Man is in his image. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.4}

What is Jesus Christ? He is the Son of God, and is like his Father, being "the brightness of his Father's glory, and the express image of his person." He is a material intelligence, with body, parts, and passions; possessing immortal flesh and immortal bones. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.5}

What are men? They are the offspring of Adam. They are capable of receiving intelligence and exaltation to such a degree as to be raised from the dead with a body like that of Jesus Christ, [8] and to possess immortal flesh and bones. Thus perfected, they will possess the material universe, that is, the earth, as their "everlasting inheritance." With these hopes and prospects before us, we say to the Christian world who hold to immateriality, that they are welcome to their God - their life - their heaven, and their all. They claim nothing but that which we throw away; and we claim nothing but that which they throw away. Therefore, there is no ground for quarrel or contention between us. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.6}

We choose all substance - what remains
The mystical sectarian gains;
All that each claims, each shall possess,
Nor grudge each other's happiness.

An immaterial God they choose,
For such a God we have no use;
An immaterial heaven and hell,
In such a heaven we cannot dwell.

We claim the earth, the air, and sky,
And all the starry worlds on high;
Gold, silver, ore, and precious stones,
And bodies made of flesh and bones.

Such is our hope, our heaven, our all,
When once redeemed from Adam's fall;
All things are ours, and we shall be,
The Lord's to all eternity. {1861 JW, PERGO 8.1} ..." - Personality of God, by James Springer White, 1861, pages 1.1 - 8.1
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? ...
For instance, God is not in the sinner:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.​

God is not in 'rock', and 'tree' and 'sun' and 'moon' and 'stars', etc. That would be the false theologies of pantheism, and also the other side of the coin in another light - panentheism.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
...G-d is not a physical being ...
You are mistaken, if referring to JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days of scripture:

That ("G-d is not a physical being") is not what scripture says and is actually spiritualism (satanic). The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe.

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.​

He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8).

See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:10).

The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c).

So is the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; &c)

Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust).

Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
For instance, God is not in the sinner:

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.​

God is not in 'rock', and 'tree' and 'sun' and 'moon' and 'stars', etc. That would be the false theologies of pantheism, and also the other side of the coin in another light - panentheism.

So then God is not omnipresent. He is not everywhere and cannot know everything taking place. Therefore he’s not omnipotent?

That verse is not evidence of pan(en)theism being “false”. In fact it says that God will come to the person who invites him. Can you provide another?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? I don't think it matters if Hell is literal or figurative. It's a place where condemned and punished souls are sent by God. Even if Hell is separation from God, where do the souls go? Is God not there also. Please explain the seeming paradox to me. How can an omnipotent and omnipresent God not be somewhere. To me, that negates God’s omni-everything. So, given that God is everywhere, as we were taught by Sister Mary Discipline of the Sisters of No Mercy, is God in Hell along with the tortured souls he sentenced there? Does he exist there?
I find there is both a literal hell and a religious-myth hell.
The religious-myth hell is the one that is often taught as being Scripture but is Not Scripture.
The literal hell of the Bible is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
I say this because Jesus taught ' sleep ' (Not pain) in death as found at John 11:11-14.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach unconscious sleep in death:
( Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
Plus, biblical hell comes to a final end in that symbolic ' second death ' of Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' ( meaning resurrected out of hell / grave ) then, emptied-out hell/grave is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell/grave.
So, No one is punished in any pain in biblical hell.
Adam was a living soul, and at death Adam became a dead soul or a lifeless soul.
No post-mortem penalty for Adam, and No double jeopardy for Adam just returning to the dust.
Plus, it was the God of Jesus who resurrected dead Jesus out of biblical hell/grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust)............

Because 1 Peter 3:18-19 is speaking about a 'resurrected' Jesus (Not before dead Jesus was resurrected ) the ' spirits ' in prison are the 'spirits' of 2 Peter 2:4-5; Jude 1:6, those 'spirits' are the 'fallen angels' of Noah's day.
Their prison is Not some religious-myth hell just taught as being Scripture, but a biblical tartarus.
Those 'fallen angels' (aka spirits) never had bodies made of dust.

Hebrews 12:9, 23 is in connection to John 3:5 they are the 'people' who live a spiritual life -> John 3:5,22-23
Nothing to do with the wicked fallen angels mentioned by Peter who were never baptised.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Exactly...not a problem. Hell is for a purpose created by God. The judgement fire of Hell has an affect on those in judgement. It has no affect on God. ....l

I find religious-myth hell teaches an adverse judgement fire of Hell.
The Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
If biblical hell was a permanent place righteous Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep' Not pain in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
When King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever.
This is also seen in the words of Psalm 92:7 that the wicked will be 'destroyed forever '.
If we do Not want to ' perish '( be destroyed ) then we need to repent as per 2 Peter 3:9.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So then God is not omnipresent. He is not everywhere and cannot know everything taking place. Therefore he’s not omnipotent?...................
Right, God is Not everywhere but has a home location according to 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:49.
However, God does send forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30
Because God gifted mankind with free-will choices then God does Not have to know everything.
We are all free to act responsibly toward God or not.
There is a ' time of separation' coming to take place on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Jesus will separate people figuratively placing the humble people (sheep) at his right hand of favor.
As far as the figurative haughty ' goats ' are concerned they will loose out on gaining everlasting life .
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Very Good! You Question. It's easy to see how religion does not add up.
In reality, Hell only exists in the mind. The idea is used to gain followers or as an attempt to control the actions and choices of others.
Mankind is a controlling lot. It is one of the petty things we must all learn to let go of.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
Is it the religion of the Bible that does Not add up or religious-myth teaching about the Bible that does Not add up __
The English word 'hell' does appear in old translations such as the King James.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead until Resurrection Day.
( Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )
This is why the ' future tense ' is being used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there 'is going to be' a resurrection....
So, what does Not add up is controlling false clergy false teachings about biblical hell.
Biblical hell the temporary grave for the sleeping dead - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Even the word cemetery means: sleeping place, Not burning place.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? I don't think it matters if Hell is literal or figurative. It's a place where condemned and punished souls are sent by God. Even if Hell is separation from God, where do the souls go? Is God not there also. Please explain the seeming paradox to me. How can an omnipotent and omnipresent God not be somewhere. To me, that negates God’s omni-everything. So, given that God is everywhere, as we were taught by Sister Mary Discipline of the Sisters of No Mercy, is God in Hell along with the tortured souls he sentenced there? Does he exist there?

Yes.

RC Sproul said if there was a vote in hell to kick out, it would be God because God makes hell to be hell.

God is everywhere
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
I find religious-myth hell teaches an adverse judgement fire of Hell.
The Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
If biblical hell was a permanent place righteous Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep' Not pain in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
When King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever.
This is also seen in the words of Psalm 92:7 that the wicked will be 'destroyed forever '.
If we do Not want to ' perish '( be destroyed ) then we need to repent as per 2 Peter 3:9.

(Rev. 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "

(Rev. 20:14-15) "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

CliveG

New Member
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? I don't think it matters if Hell is literal or figurative. It's a place where condemned and punished souls are sent by God. Even if Hell is separation from God, where do the souls go? Is God not there also. Please explain the seeming paradox to me. How can an omnipotent and omnipresent God not be somewhere. To me, that negates God’s omni-everything. So, given that God is everywhere, as we were taught by Sister Mary Discipline of the Sisters of No Mercy, is God in Hell along with the tortured souls he sentenced there? Does he exist there?

I believe that there is an Ultimate Intelligence which is the only entity that exists (like Brahman). The Universe, God and Satan are all a dream of this entity. We are an illusion where anything is possible, but the laws of physics rule most of the time. God is thus ALMOST onmi-all but not quite.

The afterlife is where souls go before reincarnating. Some souls are terminated. The afterlife is a continuum, like many neighborhoods. Souls have no form and are neither male for female (same as God). Souls evolve to match the evolution of life. Souls use spirit matter to interact with matter. Spirits then have the same earthly form but also decay after death. A slowly decaying spirit with some soul connection is a ghost capable of haunting for a while.

Hell is the bottom section and is unpleasant. Heaven is the upper section and is unbelievably pleasant at the top. God can go to any of these sections. In effect these sections are like computer memory for classes of objects, retaining the essence and a few memories - and God has full access.

Why do I think this? I used to be an atheist, but have had many supernatural experiences - one of the Ultimate Intelligence, one of Heaven, some of death, one of the afterlife and one of a haunting. I am now a de facto theist. Not quite a full believer but a theist by choice. For the record I am 71, male and was raised Methodist.
 

coconut theology

coconuts for Jesus
Because 1 Peter 3:18-19 is speaking about a 'resurrected' Jesus (Not before dead Jesus was resurrected ) the ' spirits ' in prison are the 'spirits' of 2 Peter 2:4-5; Jude 1:6, those 'spirits' are the 'fallen angels' of Noah's day. ...
That is actually incorrect. The "spirits in prison" are men/mankind in the bondage of sin in the days of Noah, per the context. Would you like to see that?
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Well, is he? For those who believe in an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God and believe in Hell, especially a literal one, is God there? I don't think it matters if Hell is literal or figurative. It's a place where condemned and punished souls are sent by God. Even if Hell is separation from God, where do the souls go? Is God not there also. Please explain the seeming paradox to me. How can an omnipotent and omnipresent God not be somewhere. To me, that negates God’s omni-everything. So, given that God is everywhere, as we were taught by Sister Mary Discipline of the Sisters of No Mercy, is God in Hell along with the tortured souls he sentenced there? Does he exist there?
Hi,

As Shia Muslims, we believe that human can’t understand the essence of God.

Humans must accept their limitations.

So God is not a physical thing that is physically contained within a particular space.

Then the same question can be raised about Hell-like places in earth, where humans are being tortured..

So where is God?

God is everywhere, He is close to those who are close to him..

And far from those who have chosen to be far from him.
 
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