What was your original reason to become a RF member?

Father Heathen · Feb 13, 2020

My original reason, which continues today, is to impart wisdom and spread joy.

Mock Turtle · Feb 14, 2020

Ancient Soul said:
I gave you "winner" for that post.

There was a fight going on in another froum years ago with a Christian and an atheist over who was "persecuting" who. So before I jumped in the help out the atheist, I checked my facts as I always do. I was surprised to find out that in the U.S., a largely Christian country, atheists are more often denied child custody or even visitation rights in divorce court, just because they are deemed automatically "immoral" and not fit parents. And even in many towns or cities they are not allowed to teach in schools, denied the right to vote, or run for public office. Then there's the general social persecution of atheists in their everyday life. Like if their Christian boss or Christian co-workers finds out they are an ewwww... ATHEIST, I would hate working in that oppressive workplace.

That being said, I do object to their attacking ALL "theists" for the doings of just the Christians. For that is no better than lumping ALL the atheists together. One needs to be careful not to fall into the trap of the saying that "You become like that which you hate."

And although here in the UK there will likely be less animosity between any believers and non-believers (from my experience) one can't but be aware that being an atheist in some countries is rather more dangerous. I think that is what some of us are likely to be railing against, given that those in such countries usually don't have a voice.

sciatica · Feb 14, 2020

atheists as victims?? give me a break

TagliatelliMonster · Feb 14, 2020

osgart said:
Ridicule breeds contempt. Contempt is a path to polarization. Polarization leads to conflict. Discussion breaks off and violence becomes more possible.

If I were to ridicule a judge for being unfair in a court of law I would be in contempt of court.

Have you ever been ridiculed?

I was talking about ridiculing ideas, not people.

There's a huge difference.

And the answer to your question is, off course, "yes". Who wasn't, at some point in their lives?

TagliatelliMonster · Feb 14, 2020

Amanaki said:
My view is that spiritual/religious people should stay away from politics and let others deal with it

Why?

To me it seems very clear that the world become less an less spiritual, and more and more toward a Atheistic society, that to me is scary, because it is far from what i would like to live under.

Yet at the same time, you want to be ruled by atheists? Since you just said that you feel like religious people should stay away from politics.

Sounds like self-infliction to me.
You don't get to complain about society becoming "less spiritual" while at the same time saying that "spiritual people" shouldn't get involved in politics.

But, having said that.... in secular democracies, including the one you live in, there is nothing there that stops you, or prohibits you, from living a "spiritual" life in any way you please. Right?

But maybe you guys think the same about spiritual or religious leadership?

I'm quite happy living in a secular society, where neither atheism nore theism is "imposed" on citizens.

Spirit of Light · Feb 14, 2020

TagliatelliMonster said:
Why?

Yet at the same time, you want to be ruled by atheists? Since you just said that you feel like religious people should stay away from politics.

Sounds like self-infliction to me.
You don't get to complain about society becoming "less spiritual" while at the same time saying that "spiritual people" shouldn't get involved in politics.

But, having said that.... in secular democracies, including the one you live in, there is nothing there that stops you, or prohibits you, from living a "spiritual" life in any way you please. Right?

I'm quite happy living in a secular society, where neither atheism nore theism is "imposed" on citizens.

I dont think religion and politics should be mixed.

TagliatelliMonster · Feb 14, 2020

Amanaki said:
I dont think religion and politics should be mixed.

Neither do I.

This is why secularism is a good thing.

But it sounds as if on the one hand you say that it shouldn't be mixed, and then on the other hand complain that isn't mixed....

tas8831 · Feb 14, 2020

Amanaki said:
I know some people have been members for years, so maybe you don't recall the true reason you signed in to RF the first time. But if you recall it, Why did you choose RF? And how do you feel about RF today?

I was engaged with a creationist on another forum, whom I had caught plagiarizing some creationist websites. When googling the material, I found that the creationist had posted the same plagiarized material on this site. So, I signed up.

Why do aggressive Atheists sign in to a religious forum? I don't mind atheists in general, and I respect you're disbelieve, but why choose a religious forum to discuss? Maybe I am wrong, but it almost seems like you trying to tear apart spiritual people and make them suffer???? I do not understand this. Should Spiritual people respect the Atheists but not be respected back??

As one that has done research and taught about evolution and genetics and such for decades, I find that the overwhelming majority of anti-evolutionists post false, misleading, erroneous, and/or hateful things when it comes to evolution and related topics. It baffles me in more than one way when they do this, and I believe that such activity is harmful to the nation as part of a 'war' on intellectualism and education in general.
If that makes me "aggressive". so be it.

By the way, when I first signed up on here, I was not yet an atheist. I had long ago stopped being a Christian, but was open to the notion of a deity at some level, more of a deist, I suppose. But after having interacted with more creationists on here and other forums in the past few years, especially after that Great Christian Trump somehow got elected, I could no longer find a reason to think that way.

9-10ths_Penguin · Feb 14, 2020

MonkeyFire said:
Most believers would hate your secularity because if God is true it's nature becomes seriously devilish.

Secularism is actually the best way to protect religious freedom.

When religion has influence over government, this tends to be very bad news for all forms of religion that aren't the single denomination in power.

By arguing that religion shouldn't get special treatment, secularism doesn't just fight against special benefits for certain religions; it also fights to make sure that certain religions shouldn't be singled out for special harms or restrictions.

syo · Feb 14, 2020

I don't like debating. I like to read opinions and say my opinion. That's why I joined.

tas8831 · Feb 14, 2020

osgart said:
The anti's demand conformity, an expect subordination under their dictates. They are extremely proud and do not respect anything but their own particular way.

Pure projection.

tas8831 · Feb 14, 2020

Landon Caeli said:
My oldest daughter is an atheist, and is one of the most selfish individuals I've ever met.

Bad parenting is more to blame than being an atheist.
Both of my kids are atheists, and they are way more forgiving and caring than I am. And most of the religious people I know, for that matter.

Cooky · Feb 14, 2020

tas8831 said:
Bad parenting is more to blame than being an atheist.

Then why is the 2nd oldest daughter, who is a believer, a genuinely good and caring person, when we raised them both the same?

Mock Turtle · Feb 14, 2020

Landon Caeli said:
Then why is the 2nd oldest daughter, who is a believer, a genuinely good and caring person, when we raised them both the same?

Because individual siblings in a family will vary - no matter how they experience their early lives?

Cooky · Feb 14, 2020

tas8831 said:
Both of my kids are atheists, and they are way more forgiving and caring than I am.

Is that really saying much though? I mean, I don't know you that well.

Audie · Feb 14, 2020

Amanaki said:
I do not see all Atheists as aggressive, but some, who seem to not be able to understand that even we can not see or feel the God, Buddha or other deities we may believe in we are still able to understand the teaching given, and often the teachings is not about how God is or Buddha is, but about how we as followers would have to become during the practice to be able to reach the purity we're looking for. And when we try to give an explanation we get laughed at or ridiculed. And yes even that is a part of becoming stronger in the belief, it should not be needed in a forum like this. We are here to have a good time, not feel we are not wanted in a religious forum. And just to be clear, I do welcome atheists here of course I do, But some atheists here seem more interested in. And i would like that to stop.

Of course many believers could be better toward atheists too, and yes there are extreme people within religion too, and that is equally wrong too. A Good discussion about belief and spirituality is always welcome, by why does it have to be similar to a fight?

Speaking as a presumably "aggressive" atheist-
not that I have any expectation of a response of course.

Lets see what you've said:

who seem to not be able to understand that even we can not see or feel the God,

Nonsense. Of course you cannot see or feel "the god".
What kind of complete idiot would expect you to see or
feel something that does not exist?

You cannot produce one example. No atheist here
is that stupid.

You simply made up this complaint. Why would you do that?
Making up criticism is hardly congruent with the "Nicer"
tone you speak of.

laughed at or ridiculed. And yes even that is a part of becoming stronger

if it makes you stronger, you should welcome it.
We note too that Christians in particular seem to
seek it our, and find "mocking" or "persecution"
where it does not exist. It is intrinsic to the faith.
It makes them strong.

65 Bible verses about Mockery

making fun or push down believers.

That is against forum rules. I doubt you have examples.

We do though make fun of ideas, many of which
are so fantastical, absurd,that they certainly earn it.
One can hardly expect to come to a DEBATE and
not encounter criticism.

Making fun of an individual, for being a believer or otherwise
is unseemly and, IMO, is not what happens
here. Not without rebuke from modulators.

You might want to notice the mockery of scientific ideas,
evolution in particular. Maybe you saw a current thread headed
with a cartoon of a buck tooth character busy believing
evoltuion despite all the clear facts against it. Go check it out.

believers could be better toward atheists too,

Nice to have you notice that. You might want to
observe some of it.

INCLUDING, by you here. You've made what
look to me like a string of false accusations, generally
having to do with people's character.

You might take it as an honour that atheists may have
a general habit of holding "theists" to high standards of
conduct.

It is, after all, what they tend to profess.

When they fail to live up to their avowed principles and
standards, of course they get called on it.
Do you ever notice or comment, or do you figure all
"theists" or "believers" should be exempt from
any criticism?

Cooky · Feb 14, 2020

Audie said:
not that I have any expectation of a response of course.

And why should you receive one, considering the bulk of your posts in regards to religion and faith come off as dictatorial?

Some people always come off as trying to persue their own personal goals, with no chance of actual dialogue.

Spirit of Light · Feb 14, 2020

Audie said:
Speaking as a presumably "aggressive" atheist-
not that I have any expectation of a response of course.

Lets see what you've said:

who seem to not be able to understand that even we can not see or feel the God,

Nonsense. Of course you cannot see or feel "the god".
What kind of complete idiot would expect you to see or
feel something that does not exist?

You cannot produce one example. No atheist here
is that stupid.

You simply made up this complaint. Why would you do that?
Making up criticism is hardly congruent with the "Nicer"
tone you speak of.

laughed at or ridiculed. And yes even that is a part of becoming stronger

if it makes you stronger, you should welcome it.
We note too that Christians in particular seem to
seek it our, and find "mocking" or "persecution"
where it does not exist. It is intrinsic to the faith.
It makes them strong.

65 Bible verses about Mockery

making fun or push down believers.

That is against forum rules. I doubt you have examples.

We do though make fun of ideas, many of which
are so fantastical, absurd,that they certainly earn it.
One can hardly expect to come to a DEBATE and
not encounter criticism.

Making fun of an individual, for being a believer or otherwise
is unseemly and, IMO, is not what happens
here. Not without rebuke from modulators.

You might want to notice the mockery of scientific ideas,
evolution in particular. Maybe you saw a current thread headed
with a cartoon of a buck tooth character busy believing
evoltuion despite all the clear facts against it. Go check it out.

believers could be better toward atheists too,

Nice to have you notice that. You might want to
observe some of it.

INCLUDING, by you here. You've made what
look to me like a string of false accusations, generally
having to do with people's character.

You might take it as an honour that atheists may have
a general habit of holding "theists" to high standards of
conduct.

It is, after all, what they tend to profess.

When they fail to live up to their avowed principles and
standards, of course they get called on it.
Do you ever notice or comment, or do you figure all
"theists" or "believers" should be exempt from
any criticism?

I am going to answer your questions this time. Just because you can not see or understand how others can see or feel a deity does not mean they does not exist , How about before science find new answers they been looking for? Until science can measure a new object or particle, does it mean it does not exist? No it does not mean that, it means science has not yet discovered it Science does not create new objects at the moment they discover it, it was there before they found it. Same is it with spirituality and Gods or other deities, before you know how to see or feel them they can't be seen or felt, but they are still there.

If you know you make fun of ideas, or beliefs, why do you do it? Do you really think it helps to make fun of others? Or do you do it so you can feel good about your self? Joking about others is one thing, but making fun of their belief just because you can not understand them, that is just cruel.

I don't hold believers in higher regard than Atheists, but i do agree that i sometimes find Atheists annoying because of their constant ridiculing of those who have a belief. (i already know i speak against Atheists in this thread, but not because of their lack of belief, because that does not bother me. but what does bother me is the way many atheists treat believers) (and yes some believers may happen to go to far toward atheists sometimes, i know)

Cooky · Feb 14, 2020

Amanaki said:
I am going to answer your questions this time. Just because you can not see or understand how others can see or feel a deity does not mean they does not exist , How about before science find new answers they been looking for? Until science can measure a new object or particle, does it mean it does not exist? No it does not mean that, it means science has not yet discovered it Science does not create new objects at the moment they discover it, it was there before they found it. Same is it with spirituality and Gods or other deities, before you know how to see or feel them they can't be seen or felt, but they are still there.

If you know you make fun of ideas, or beliefs, why do you do it? Do you really think it helps to make fun of others? Or do you do it so you can feel good about your self? Joking about others is one thing, but making fun of their belief just because you can not understand them, that is just cruel.

I don't hold believers in higher regard than Atheists, but i do agree that i sometimes find Atheists annoying because of their constant ridiculing of those who have a belief. (i already know i speak against Atheists in this thread, but not because of their lack of belief, because that does not bother me. but what does bother me is the way many atheists treat believers) (and yes some believers may happen to go to far toward atheists sometimes, i know)

It was kind of you to take time out of your life to explain that.

Audie · Feb 14, 2020

Amanaki said:
I am going to answer your questions this time. Just because you can not see or understand how others can see or feel a deity does not mean they does not exist , How about before science find new answers they been looking for? Until science can measure a new object or particle, does it mean it does not exist? No it does not mean that, it means science has not yet discovered it Science does not create new objects at the moment they discover it, it was there before they found it. Same is it with spirituality and Gods or other deities, before you know how to see or feel them they can't be seen or felt, but they are still there.

If you know you make fun of ideas, or beliefs, why do you do it? Do you really think it helps to make fun of others? Or do you do it so you can feel good about your self? Joking about others is one thing, but making fun of their belief just because you can not understand them, that is just cruel.

I don't hold believers in higher regard than Atheists, but i do agree that i sometimes find Atheists annoying because of their constant ridiculing of those who have a belief. (i already know i speak against Atheists in this thread, but not because of their lack of belief, because that does not bother me. but what does bother me is the way many atheists treat believers) (and yes some believers may happen to go to far toward atheists sometimes, i know)

Just because you can not see or understand how others can see or feel a deity does not mean they does not exist ,

This is what is known as a "strawman" as I in no way stated or
implied it. This would be a very very stupid thing for me to say.
It is more than a little insulting for you to claim idiocy of me, or think
I need it explained why it would be wrong. Especially with a whole paragraph.

You just made that up. Why do you keep making things up???

I recognize your limited English ability, but did you read what I said???
I point out that nobody is going to expect you to see things that
they do not believe even exist.

Your claim that atheists do that is nonsense. Plain enough?

making fun of their belief just because you can not understand them

Again, a strawman, something you simply made up.
I do NOT DO THAT. I make fun of the stupid things
people say about science, though generally I try to
patiently point out their mistakes. I pointed out some
of yours in the post you are responding to, but did you
take note of any of them? Far from it, you went at it
again making up more falsehoods.

Oh and this...before you know how to see or feel them they can't be seen or felt, but they are still there.

Are they?
Does t his go for pixies,
Technically, this is called "assuming facts not in evidence."
I dont ridicule anyone for this, but I do tend to point out when
they say things as facts when they are only opinions or beliefs.

constant ridiculing of those who have a belief.

Nobody does this. If it were so common, you could
provide an example. You cannot, any more than you
can examples of your other false claims.

Finally this
Or do you do it so you can feel good about your self?

How about a counter question. Does this type of insulting
rhetorical question seem to you as being an example
of the nice nice nice treatment of others you call for?
I trust it is not.
How about making things up, and then criticizing someone
for what you make up?

All your complaints are made up.
You've made no concession at all that you've been
making things up. Far from it, you added more.

What was your original reason to become a RF member?

Veteran Member

Oh my, did I say that!

Notable Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Be who ever you want

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

1/10 Subway Stalinist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Oh my, did I say that!

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Be who ever you want

Veteran Member

Veteran Member