To Hebrew experts: did Eve sleep with the Serpent?

Fool · Feb 10, 2020

rosends said:
Ernest Klein's dictionary doesn't connect the two
https://www.sefaria.org/Klein_Dictionary,_נחשׁ?ven=Carta_Jerusalem;_1st_edition,_1987&lang=bi

even though logically, the slyness of the serpent and the dishonesty of a sorcerer seem connected.

what's up doc?

foolishness of foolishness. all is foolishness. giggles

evidently it lies at the root of nehushtan too. kinda like nidhogg in relationship to the world tree vs the serpent and the tree of life. the seraphim are sometimes understood as serpents.

you might want to ask why is moses carrying that serpent on a tree/staff. and why is he sword fighting with serpents of the pharoahs court.

OPHITES - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The amazing name Nahash: meaning and etymology

Nachash

The Hebrew Meaning of the Mysterious Serpent (Guess What It Has To Do With Guessing?) - hebrewversity

Fool · Feb 10, 2020

Terry Sampson said:
Do you have source for the statement that the noun, nachash meaning serpent, is derived from a verb, nachash, which means soothsaying, divining, learning by experiencing?

ever played with a serpent. st patrick did.

naas, ireland - naassene

Irish DNA originated in Middle East and eastern Europe

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

Arthur Conan Doyle

The Return of the Serpents of Wisdom

moses, like joseph, learned something from the egyptians, the furnace of affliction.

Terry Sampson · Feb 10, 2020

Fool said:
ever played with a serpent.

Yes, many times in my teens, when my family lived in Nevada and my brother built a 10' x 4' x 2' cage to keep his snakes in.
re: Your links to "Irish DNA originated in Middle East and eastern Europe" and "The Return of the Serpents of Wisdom". Very interesting. I wondered why the connection between "snake/serpent" and "man/seer/prophet" was so far-fetched. Thanks.

dybmh · Feb 11, 2020

Fool said:
serpent = nachash, a noun, is derived from nachash, a verb; which means soothsaying, divining, learning by experiencing.

bascially a man, a seer, a prophet.

Symbolism of the Serpent

From the link you provided on nachash... it's derived from the sound... the hissing whispering sound made by both serpents and soothsayers ( apparently ). The idea of being a prophet, by today's standards is probably closer to a "seer".. 1st Sam 9:9

The word here for seer is: Roeh, and that's much different than Nachash. The word seems to be an onomatopoeia, and does not appear to be related to a prophet.

dybmh · Feb 11, 2020

Fool said:
evidently it lies at the root of nehushtan too. kinda like nidhogg in relationship to the world tree vs the serpent and the tree of life. the seraphim are sometimes understood as serpents.

So, Judaism disagrees with the others?

... that makes sense...

Fool · Feb 11, 2020

dybmh said:
From the link you provided on nachash... it's derived from the sound... the hissing whispering sound made by both serpents and soothsayers ( apparently ). The idea of being a prophet, by today's standards is probably closer to a "seer".. 1st Sam 9:9

The word here for seer is: Roeh, and that's much different than Nachash. The word seems to be an onomatopoeia, and does not appear to be related to a prophet.

different word same meaning.

Synonyms of soothsayer | Thesaurus.com

Fool · Feb 11, 2020

dybmh said:
So, Judaism disagrees with the others?

... that makes sense...

No it's probably an idea the Hebrews got from their Egyptian or Babylonian experience.

dybmh · Feb 11, 2020

Fool said:
different word same meaning.

Synonyms of soothsayer | Thesaurus.com

I have nothing wrong with serpents. I love serpents. Some of my best friends are serpents....

But seriously. Why not let serpents be serpents and prophets be prophets?

"Different does not mean deficient" -- Reverend Jeremiah Wright

Fool · Feb 11, 2020

dybmh said:
From the link you provided on nachash... it's derived from the sound... the hissing whispering sound made by both serpents and soothsayers ( apparently ). The idea of being a prophet, by today's standards is probably closer to a "seer".. 1st Sam 9:9

The word here for seer is: Roeh, and that's much different than Nachash. The word seems to be an onomatopoeia, and does not appear to be related to a prophet.

it made no definite claim

dybmh · Feb 11, 2020

Fool said:
No it's probably an idea the Hebrews got from their Egyptian or Babylonian experience.

It's probably an idea some of the Hebrews adopted. But that doesn't make it Jewish or part of Judaism.

Fool · Feb 11, 2020

dybmh said:
I have nothing wrong with serpents. I love serpents. Some of my best friends are serpents....

But seriously. Why not let serpents be serpents and prophets be prophets?

"Different does not mean deficient" -- Reverend Jeremiah Wright

Because the association is literally made to the serpent being the wisest creature.

Symbolism of the Serpent

Ophiolatreia

Fool · Feb 11, 2020

dybmh said:
It's probably an idea some of the Hebrews adopted. But that doesn't make it Jewish or part of Judaism.

So you're claiming that the Jewish Genesis story is unique?

Fool · Feb 11, 2020

ha-nachash "The Shiny One": shekhiNah and haNachash

Wandering Monk · Feb 12, 2020

ALL European DNA came from Africa. Here is Y-DNA migration. It should be no surprise that the Irish are included in this:

dybmh · Feb 12, 2020

Fool said:
Because the association is literally made to the serpent being the wisest creature.

Symbolism of the Serpent

Ophiolatreia

Being wise is very different than being a prophet in Judaism. Prophecy rests on an individual and then departs. A wise person, is always wise. Being wise is preferable to being a prophet.

dybmh · Feb 12, 2020

Fool said:
So you're claiming that the Jewish Genesis story is unique?

No, but the conclusion differs from the others. Judaism disagrees with the others who put their faith in other gods and serpents. But serpents aren't bad.

Fool · Feb 12, 2020

dybmh said:
Being wise is very different than being a prophet in Judaism. Prophecy rests on an individual and then departs. A wise person, is always wise. Being wise is preferable to being a prophet.

it's my understanding that Judaism accepts prophets that aren't Jewish.

Joseph is part of their history.

Jacob, Abraham

Reference to another serpent.

Genesis 49:16-17

Fool · Feb 12, 2020

dybmh said:
No, but the conclusion differs from the others. Judaism disagrees with the others who put their faith in other gods and serpents. But serpents aren't bad.

It was always the prophets coming to restore the Jewish people to the way when they turned to idolatry. It's a recurring theme. But materialism isn't necessarily a foreign idea on it can be money. For that matter it can be anything that is corruptible, or hoarded. Natural resources could be manipulated like that.

This is a recurring theme in all cultures.

dybmh · Feb 12, 2020

Fool said:
it's my understanding that Judaism accepts prophets that aren't Jewish.

OK.

Joseph is part of their history.

and?

Jacob, Abraham

yes...

Reference to another serpent.

Genesis 49:16-17

Dan wasn't a prophet.
The Tribe of Dan is not represented favorably in Tanach.
And the Ammonites whose king was named Nachash aren't heroes in the story either.

dybmh · Feb 12, 2020

Fool said:
It was always the prophets coming to restore the Jewish people to the way when they turned to idolatry. It's a recurring theme. But materialism isn't necessarily a foreign idea on it can be money. For that matter it can be anything that is corruptible, or hoarded. Natural resources could be manipulated like that.

This is a recurring theme in all cultures.

Agreed.

To Hebrew experts: did Eve sleep with the Serpent?

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דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש

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