Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
What??
There is nothing even remotely pertaining to anything about having anyone's name taken off the mythical "book of life" in that tormented passage.
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When a Spirit Dies
- Thread starter Thief
- Start date
What??
There is nothing even remotely pertaining to anything about having anyone's name taken off the mythical "book of life" in that tormented passage.
What if Satan is clever enough to convince people that he doesn’t exist? He is a master deceiver....so, would you know?
But you’ve got that half right....Satan cannot be forgiven because there is no basis upon which to forgive him or his cronies. They chose their actions wilfully and deliberately with no acceptable excuse for what they did.
Humans, OTOH did not choose to be born in sin and under the condemnation of death. They inherited that genetic defect from their first parents, who were also unforgivable.
Jesus came to save those who would not be over-reached by the devil’s temptations. Remember what things Satan tempted Jesus with....all involved what had tempted him.....selfish ambition, self-interest and pride. We all have those hooks. We can disable them.
And you seem to demonstrate that if you did read the whole Bible, you didn’t understand much of it.
Wow....there’s a major misinterpretation right there.
Maybe we can see why by re-reading those verses....
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The expression “from the foundation of the world” has nothing to do with the creation of the earth, as if God had already determined before creation how every person’s life would play out. How absurd! No human life is pre-determined. Free will does not allow for that. How could the forbidden fruit have been placed off limits and with the death penalty, if it was inevitable that humans would take the fruit and die? Is that logical?
The “foundation of the world” in Hebrew conveys the thought of “the laying down of seed” or the conception of humans. This is about the conception of Adam’s children, sinful from the day they were born....sold into slavery by the actions of their parents, requiring a redeemer. Right there in Eden God foretold that he would provide such a redeemer (Genesis 3:15)
As time progressed, the meaning of the prophesy in Genesis 3:15 remained a bit of a mystery, and did not become clear until Messiah came. The devil would deal him a “heel” wound, painful and temporarily disabling, but not fatal. That wound was healed by Christ’s resurrection.
Humans have been observed and their faith recorded in a symbolic book from the creation of the human race descended from Adam. (Exodus 32:32-33) By the exercise of free will, all humans have been choosing their own destiny....life or death. There never was heaven or hell....that is a satanic lie.
But “the book of life of the Lamb” appears to be a separate ‘scroll’ intended for this show who will rule with him in his kingdom. (Revelation 2:10) Not all Christians are heaven bound.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.
Talk about plucking scripture out of the air without context....
Its the end times and God will deal with the “beast” and all who are misled by its empty promises by putting its prime promoter into a bottomless pit. But God sees who are following the beast who are are not. Those who are genuine disciples of Jesus are “no part of the world”. In this judgment period, only those who are not roped into satan’s world system will be seen as separated from it, not “friends” with it. (James 4:4)....these are non-political, not selfishly involved in accumulating personal wealth for their own glory, and not part of hypocritical religion by supporting false teachings and nationalistic bloodshed.
In my experience, reading the Bible without proper guidance, or following Christendom’s version of things, will never lead a person to the truth about any of it.
Rebelling against God and throwing him away is not going to lead anywhere good either.
How much better to put down all that you have ever been taught, throw it in the trash, and start again from scratch....that is what we did. It is challenging and requires honesty....but the truth is not only empowering....it is humbling.
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
I find it difficult trying to debate with people bent on using some silly mythology as "facts", when they are just ancient stories.
Now if you knew anything about true spiritual matters you would know that all those who have a strong connection to their souls can "read" the energy of all other souls. And are automatically alerted whenever a soul is evil. The "feeling" of evil energy is unmistakable. So I would have been able to know if this silly "satan" existed when my soul was looking to find out if it existed. I also asked God, and he said NO! Besides, such a silly mythical creature has no part of God's plan for all souls. And it would go against the very nature of The God.
This satan myth is just an addition to the Christian FEAR mongering brainwashing system.
And you seem to demonstrate that if you did read the whole Bible, you didn’t understand much of it.
Wow....there’s a major misinterpretation right there.
Maybe we can see why by re-reading those verses....
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The expression “from the foundation of the world” has nothing to do with the creation of the earth, as if God had already determined before creation how every person’s life would play out. How absurd! No human life is pre-determined. Free will does not allow for that. How could the forbidden fruit have been placed off limits and with the death penalty, if it was inevitable that humans would take the fruit and die? Is that logical?
The “foundation of the world” in Hebrew conveys the thought of “the laying down of seed” or the conception of humans. This is about the conception of Adam’s children, sinful from the day they were born....sold into slavery by the actions of their parents, requiring a redeemer. Right there in Eden God foretold that he would provide such a redeemer (Genesis 3:15)
As time progressed, the meaning of the prophesy in Genesis 3:15 remained a bit of a mystery, and did not become clear until Messiah came. The devil would deal him a “heel” wound, painful and temporarily disabling, but not fatal. That wound was healed by Christ’s resurrection.
Humans have been observed and their faith recorded in a symbolic book from the creation of the human race descended from Adam. (Exodus 32:32-33) By the exercise of free will, all humans have been choosing their own destiny....life or death. There never was heaven or hell....that is a satanic lie.
But “the book of life of the Lamb” appears to be a separate ‘scroll’ intended for this show who will rule with him in his kingdom. (Revelation 2:10) Not all Christians are heaven bound.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.
Talk about plucking scripture out of the air without context....
Its the end times and God will deal with the “beast” and all who are misled by its empty promises by putting its prime promoter into a bottomless pit. But God sees who are following the beast who are are not. Those who are genuine disciples of Jesus are “no part of the world”. In this judgment period, only those who are not roped into satan’s world system will be seen as separated from it, not “friends” with it. (James 4:4)....these are non-political, not selfishly involved in accumulating personal wealth for their own glory, and not part of hypocritical religion by supporting false teachings and nationalistic bloodshed.
In my experience, reading the Bible without proper guidance, or following Christendom’s version of things, will never lead a person to the truth about any of it.
Rebelling against God and throwing him away is not going to lead anywhere good either.
How much better to put down all that you have ever been taught, throw it in the trash, and start again from scratch....that is what we did. It is challenging and requires honesty....but the truth is not only empowering....it is humbling.
Lame try!
I know this Christian tactic of trying to arrogantly take a damning verse or verses they cannot face and make up some silly private interpretation to falsely claim it means something other than what it actually says.
But I'm not falling for it. it says what it says, and not what you made up to suit your own private purposes.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
So what silly private interpretation are you going to falsely claim this verse means?
Or perhaps you are going to brush your being flat out wrong off as some silly mythology?
If you are going to start an argument over what the Bible does and or does not say, you should really be more knowledgeable about what the Bible does and or does not say.
If you say so.....you can't say no one told you....there is no fear mongering or or brainwashing.....just an inconvenient truth, which is why Jesus said "few" are on the right road. (Matthew 7:13-14)
If you are happy with your choice, what is there left to say?
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
You are confused.
Don't jump into a thread of debate with gibberish that has nothing to do with the topic of discussion if Satan could or could not "repent" at any moment and be "saved".
That verse only states that anyone who adds or takes away FROM THE BOOK will be removed from the book of life and NOT be part of all the "good" stuff, with the default being they would lose everything and be thrown into the pit with Satan. There is nothing even remotely implying anything about REPENTING.
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Christianity is all about FEAR mongering brainwashing. It is a blatant lie to say otherwise.
So do tell me then, if there's no FEAR mongering, it's ok with the Christian "god" if everyone didn't believe him and chose to follow other beliefs, no punishment?
I cannot believe you denied that. Why that was the very first thing they tried to brainwash us with when I was a child. Drumming in how the evil and cruel the Christian "god" was to anyone who didn't worship him and blindly believe everything he told them. Then fed us lies about "original sin" and that nobody was "good" no matter how good they really were. A lie that gave us NO CHOICE but to blindly believe in the myth or be tortured thru-out all eternity. Heaping on the FEAR mongering again, and again, and again..., then going into more FEAR mongering with how Satan will always be coming after us. Sickening...
Raised Catholic were you?
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Nope.
But if it makes you feel better, go with it.
I was addressing a tangent created by YOU:
I never made any claim it did.
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
I see that you're still confused even after I tried to set you straight.
This one:
"Because it clearly states that your "god" has already decided when he made "the foundations of the world" who is to be "saved" and who he created just to torture thru-out all eternity."
Of which your reply and bibble verse had nothing to do with "refuting" it. It was only a warning to anyone who added or took away from the book of lies. And so it not only had nothing to do with my comment, it also had nothing to do with the overall debate if Satan could get off scott free if he "repented" at the last minute. Yet you cannot seem to see that.
Ha, you just did with your comment of:
"I was addressing a tangent created by YOU:"
Don't you even know what you are saying?
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Straw man tactic.
The topic you challenged me on was over the Christian FEAR mongering brainwashing, which you foolishly denied. Now I presented my opening arguments, so please at least try to come up with something than a weak straw man attempt.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
I understand now.
You only see hat you want, not what is actually presented.
You did the exact same thing with Deeje.
Now that I know you cannot be taken seriously, have at it.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
Lucifer is the fallen angel who died defending Heaven before Michael could vanquish Satan. In other words Lucifer is not the same thing as Satan. One is knowledge, the other is hatred.
Hang on...was that a strawman you used there....? You were raised Catholic weren't you? Can't admit it? That's OK....covering a strawman with another strawman is actually expected from those who can't answer a simple question directly...."on the grounds that....you know..."
No one did 'fear mongering and brainwashing' like Roman Catholicism.....the trouble was, "the church" was a far cry from anything that Jesus taught. Protestantism borrowed so much from Catholic doctrine that you sometimes wonder why they bothered leaving...?
I was raised in an era where Catholics and Protestants were virtual enemies. (on opposite sides like Jews and Christians) Sounds like you were on one side of that and I was on the other. I sat on the school bus with Catholic kids taunting us Protestant kids who were going to public schools because we weren't Catholic. Thankfully I later found out that neither of these are actually obeying the command of Jesus Christ. So I walked out of Christendom.
It was you who raised the point about "fear mongering and brainwashing"...wasn't it? I was looking for reasons why you felt the way you did....and I think I got them.
If your aim here is to "set people straight" it helps to have things straight yourself I think.....
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Ha, what's the matter, don't like it when proven wrong?
You came across as a troll from the start, coming in all snarly with off topic comments. You only confirm my original beliefs.
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Hang on...was that a strawman you used there....? You were raised Catholic weren't you? Can't admit it? That's OK....covering a strawman with another strawman is actually expected from those who can't answer a simple question directly...."on the grounds that....you know..."
No one did 'fear mongering and brainwashing' like Roman Catholicism.....the trouble was, "the church" was a far cry from anything that Jesus taught. Protestantism borrowed so much from Catholic doctrine that you sometimes wonder why they bothered leaving...?
I was raised in an era where Catholics and Protestants were virtual enemies. (on opposite sides like Jews and Christians) Sounds like you were on one side of that and I was on the other. I sat on the school bus with Catholic kids taunting us Protestant kids who were going to public schools because we weren't Catholic. Thankfully I later found out that neither of these are actually obeying the command of Jesus Christ. So I walked out of Christendom.
It was you who raised the point about "fear mongering and brainwashing"...wasn't it? I was looking for reasons why you felt the way you did....and I think I got them.
If your aim here is to "set people straight" it helps to have things straight yourself I think.....
Ha, just MORE straw man tactics.
I re-posted your original comments that "there is no fear mongering or or brainwashing" up top so everyone can see how you are just trying to avoid backing up your false claim.
Come on, everybody is watching, at least TRY to back up your claim.
Whose everyone? What makes you think they are even interested in what we are exchanging here?
In your haste to convict, you missed the part where I agreed with you about the "fear mongering and the brainwashing". Christendom made it an art form. Burning in hell was such a good whip.
I do not see Christendom as genuine Christianity, but as the "weeds" that Jesus said were sown by the devil.
My claim was that genuine Christianity (as in the kind that Jesus promoted) never used those tactics.
There was God's law and the penalty for not obeying them.....if that is 'fear mongering and brainwashing', then every country on earth practices it by imposing laws and penalties on their citizens. Its not exactly exclusive to God.
Oh, so its all about grandstanding....?
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Whose everyone? What makes you think they are even interested in what we are exchanging here?
In your haste to convict, you missed the part where I agreed with you about the "fear mongering and the brainwashing". Christendom made it an art form. Burning in hell was such a good whip.
I do not see Christendom as genuine Christianity, but as the "weeds" that Jesus said were sown by the devil.
My claim was that genuine Christianity (as in the kind that Jesus promoted) never used those tactics.
There was God's law and the penalty for not obeying them.....if that is 'fear mongering and brainwashing', then every country on earth practices it by imposing laws and penalties on their citizens. Its not exactly exclusive to God.
Oh, so its all about grandstanding....?OK then....I see. Perhaps a need to wind down the ego a tad is in order...?
All that straw man verbiage and STILL nothing to back up your claim of:
"there is no fear mongering or or brainwashing"
The whole Christian mythology is based ENTIRELY upon FEAR mongering no matter which of the 30,000+ denominations you follow. So there is no way out of your false statement.
The Christian mythology is ALL about the FEAR of "saving" everyone's soul, damnation, cut off from "god", eternal torture, damnation, wrath of "god", falling into the clutches of Satan, etc, etc, etc... Without it nobody would ever believe in any of the mythology.
And stop saying that God punishes just because your mythology lies and says he does. In all that God has shown me over the years, and in all the times he had revealed himself to me, there was NEVER even an inkling of any of the lower emotions that the fake Christian "god" wallows in. Nor has he EVER demanded that I worship him or even believe what he has shown me. The Christian "god" is a horrific evil demon, The real God is just the opposite of the fake Christian "god".
Ayjaydee
Active Member
I'm definitely interestedWhose everyone? What makes you think they are even interested in what we are exchanging here?
In your haste to convict, you missed the part where I agreed with you about the "fear mongering and the brainwashing". Christendom made it an art form. Burning in hell was such a good whip.
I do not see Christendom as genuine Christianity, but as the "weeds" that Jesus said were sown by the devil.
My claim was that genuine Christianity (as in the kind that Jesus promoted) never used those tactics.
There was God's law and the penalty for not obeying them.....if that is 'fear mongering and brainwashing', then every country on earth practices it by imposing laws and penalties on their citizens. Its not exactly exclusive to God.
Oh, so its all about grandstanding....?OK then....I see. Perhaps a need to wind down the ego a tad is in order...?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I have a feeling.....you can be deceived