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Have You Actually Read The Bible?

  • Not even a little bit

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A few scriptures here and there

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • A couple of chapters

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Most of it

    Votes: 7 18.9%
  • The whole thing in 1 translation

    Votes: 11 29.7%
  • The whole thing in multiples translations

    Votes: 15 40.5%

  • Total voters
    37

Ch@os*VV!tch

Follower of Thoth
Every time I get to discussing religion with Christians, I find that they can quote some memorized scriptures that prove whatever point they want to make. When I offer a rebuttal scripture that contradicts theirs, they'll decide that my scripture is a parable but theirs is literal or some other feat of circular logic. I have rarely met, even in my time as a youth pastor at a Full Gospel church, a self-identified Christian who has read the entirety of the Bible.

Recently I've been doing an in-depth study of Romans, and my reading and analysis of Romans 14 coupled with the average Christian's lack of knowledge of the Word make everything about how unbiblical evangelical Christians are start to make perfect sense.

Romans 14 (The Message) says:

14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”​

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Every time I get to discussing religion with Christians, I find that they can quote some memorized scriptures that prove whatever point they want to make. When I offer a rebuttal scripture that contradicts theirs, they'll decide that my scripture is a parable but theirs is literal or some other feat of circular logic. I have rarely met, even in my time as a youth pastor at a Full Gospel church, a self-identified Christian who has read the entirety of the Bible.

Recently I've been doing an in-depth study of Romans, and my reading and analysis of Romans 14 coupled with the average Christian's lack of knowledge of the Word make everything about how unbiblical evangelical Christians are start to make perfect sense.

Romans 14 (The Message) says:

14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”​

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.
No I have not read it all. That is because 75% of it is the Old Testament, a fair bit of which strikes me as dull, barbaric, historically inaccurate or confusing, unduly preoccupied with claims to land and fighting the neighbouring tribes, and which in any case is not what Christians are primarily enjoined to follow. I have read the gospels to understand the teaching of Christ, and I have read selected epistles and passages from the OT.

Since I am not an evangelical Protestant, I also heavily rely, as most mainstream Christians do, on what the church teaches us, besides what one can learn from reading the bible by oneself. It seems sensible to listen to what the scholars and fathers of the church have to say about it, since they have devoted their lives to this over many centuries, rather than try to reinvent the wheel all by myself and probably doing it badly.

I think the sentiments you express above seem pretty reasonable, by the way.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Every time I get to discussing religion with Christians, I find that they can quote some memorized scriptures that prove whatever point they want to make. When I offer a rebuttal scripture that contradicts theirs, they'll decide that my scripture is a parable but theirs is literal or some other feat of circular logic. I have rarely met, even in my time as a youth pastor at a Full Gospel church, a self-identified Christian who has read the entirety of the Bible.

Recently I've been doing an in-depth study of Romans, and my reading and analysis of Romans 14 coupled with the average Christian's lack of knowledge of the Word make everything about how unbiblical evangelical Christians are start to make perfect sense.

Romans 14 (The Message) says:

14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”​

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.
I say good for you, on studying the Bible, and trying to understand it.
Keep at it. Pray for direction, and you will be fine, so long as you accept the direction given.
I'm not going to give my view, since I don't want to be a stumbling stone to you. :D Joke .
The text in Romans basically helps me to appreciate that we need to consider that each person matures at a different pace, so take into consideration the weaknesses of others, and avoid stumbling them, by what we do, or say. Yes, I have read the Bible back to front, more than a dozen times, and I have found it completely harmonious. So harmonious, is the Bible in it's message, that to me, that is one of the main proofs that it is divinely authored. There is no other possible explanation... Well there is one, but that is not even up for consideration.

When I hear persons say, that they are Christian, and don't believe the entire Bible, I find it impossible to reconcile those two statements, since Jesus, and the apostles all believed the Hebrew-Aramaic scriptures (so-called Old Testament).
There is not an account in Genesis that was not recounted as a historical fact by Jesus, Paul, Stephen, Peter, and James.
So for someone to claim to be a follower of Christ and his teachings, and at the same time, refer to Adam and Eve, the Exodus, and other accounts as myth, their claim is indeed a myth, to me.
What God did, may not be understood, by some, but to erase history just because of emotional reasons, seems to me, an indication of a lack of spirituality.
It would seem people want to write their own Bible, and make God what, or how they want him to be, rather than accept what he reveals himself to be.
There would be no end to that, because another generation would come along and reject their idea of God.
I am reminded of what the apostle Paul said would be evident in the last days - 2 Timothy 3:5
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

"Most men worry about their own bellies, and other people's souls, when we all ought to be worried abut our own souls, and other people's bellies."
- Rabbi Israel Salanter
 

Workman

UNIQUE
Every time I get to discussing religion with Christians, I find that they can quote some memorized scriptures that prove whatever point they want to make. When I offer a rebuttal scripture that contradicts theirs, they'll decide that my scripture is a parable but theirs is literal or some other feat of circular logic. I have rarely met, even in my time as a youth pastor at a Full Gospel church, a self-identified Christian who has read the entirety of the Bible.

Recently I've been doing an in-depth study of Romans, and my reading and analysis of Romans 14 coupled with the average Christian's lack of knowledge of the Word make everything about how unbiblical evangelical Christians are start to make perfect sense.

Romans 14 (The Message) says:

14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”​

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.
I fully agree with your interpretation..
However do you know what meaning of the NAME ‘Romans’ brings forth?

if I may, let me tell you the NAME of who this PERSON is...

Long story short- this NAME was (In The) ‘Finished’ to A(your belief) development.

Which means ‘Romans’ is the reason why YOU have become who(belief) you are.

Now, with those numbers you’ve stated;
are the representatives of who(m) your being (IN)..or..(OF).

I will go through some with you, in its(your) order by numbering, they shall speak out..than you shalt see your number is whom you say it was..

14# This number is as described of WHOM your BEING in. (This is where your own in faith HAS become of you).

2-4# These numbers together explains THE WHY you are the WHO YOU ARE, and of its explanation in the...YOU are now that reason for.(your explanations).

5# so this be where your FAITH shows itself where you stand.(which means your only describing one side of your opinion, for as you did say of the other side “OR say’..was not yours to claim saying what’s good and what’s not. what did you know of the other side that made your judgement?).

6-9# these are two important numbers of its development..this is where its CORE becomes your developing(where your beliefs will be towards).

10-12# these numbers are of its (telling) by the path in journey from which one CAN become more than just THEMSELVES.

I will stop here..
you see the numbers..
are where your words come from..

And all that was interpreted accordingly to the NAME(romans)..and its numbers..no scriptures involved! Only the Name and for its Numbers that gave me all that.

As the NAME change, numbers change with it, and everything will change over its meanings.
But that is not for you to know..for you were the one that chose NOT to.

What you have written..I agree with you, but you are not right to judge of which you do not see..it will ALWAYS be more than which your thoughts. All I will say..for all my brothers and sisters..that they must not have any fear..when I say brothers and sisters I mean all those that are religious and non-religious...that you all have nothing to fear...but I only ask that you all must carry on with your lives with God..pray with God. And I PROMISE YOU WILL BE SAFE!..THAT IS ALL I am telling you...

However!..for those who don’t believe in GOD. Peace be with you..and God bless.

My truth I will give you...I had NEVER read any bible. It was already written in my HEART.

God bless.
 
Last edited:

Iymus

Active Member
Every time I get to discussing religion with Christians, I find that they can quote some memorized scriptures that prove whatever point they want to make. When I offer a rebuttal scripture that contradicts theirs, they'll decide that my scripture is a parable but theirs is literal or some other feat of circular logic. I have rarely met, even in my time as a youth pastor at a Full Gospel church, a self-identified Christian who has read the entirety of the Bible.

Recently I've been doing an in-depth study of Romans, and my reading and analysis of Romans 14 coupled with the average Christian's lack of knowledge of the Word make everything about how unbiblical evangelical Christians are start to make perfect sense.

Romans 14 (The Message) says:

14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”​

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.

1Co 9:19 KJV For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 KJV And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1Co 9:21 KJV To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 KJV To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
 

Iymus

Active Member
So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I have a question but I need to preface it:

Being carnally minded is the wide and broad gate which is death, and being spiritually minded which is the straight and narrow is life and peace which is lack of enmity with God. If we can agree then for all intensive purposes let us assume that your interpretation is the narrow spiritually minded path and lack of enmity towards God;

My question to you is; what would be considered the carnally minded interpretation of Romans Chapter 14?

----------------------
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
--------------------
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.
We should all remember that Jesus only had Two Commandments that he covered in the Sermon On the Mount. Namely to love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. All the rest is basically commentary.

And I have read it all.

Reminds me of Billy Graham's commentary on this, namely that the Bible is simple enough for even one dull-of-mind to basically understand but so complicated so as to give theologians grey hair.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Sort of like reading Shakespeare without a study guide is to read the Bible without the aid of historical, literary, scholarship for help in understanding not only what it meant for those who wrote, but what it means for us today.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Sort of like reading Shakespeare without a study guide is to read the Bible without the aid of historical, literary, scholarship for help in understanding not only what it meant for those who wrote, but what it means for us today.
Yep, and even Luther found that out the hard way.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I've read the entire Bible, although I'll admit to skimming some parts.
In different translations.

Tom

ETA ~The really fun parts, like Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, some of Judges, and the New Testament, I've read too many times to count. Also Psalms and such.~
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Every time I get to discussing religion with Christians, I find that they can quote some memorized scriptures that prove whatever point they want to make. When I offer a rebuttal scripture that contradicts theirs, they'll decide that my scripture is a parable but theirs is literal or some other feat of circular logic. I have rarely met, even in my time as a youth pastor at a Full Gospel church, a self-identified Christian who has read the entirety of the Bible.

Recently I've been doing an in-depth study of Romans, and my reading and analysis of Romans 14 coupled with the average Christian's lack of knowledge of the Word make everything about how unbiblical evangelical Christians are start to make perfect sense.

Romans 14 (The Message) says:

14 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do. And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.

2-4 For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ’s table, wouldn’t it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn’t eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God’s welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.

5 Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.

6-9 What’s important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God’s sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you’re a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It’s God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That’s why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.

10-12 So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I’d say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we’re all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren’t going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:

“As I live and breathe,” God says,
“every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God.”​

So tend to your knitting. You’ve got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.

13-14 Forget about deciding what’s right for each other. Here’s what you need to be concerned about: that you don’t get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I’m convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.

15-16 If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don’t eat, you’re no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don’t you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!

17-18 God’s kingdom isn’t a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness’ sake. It’s what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you’ll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.

19-21 So let’s agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don’t drag them down by finding fault. You’re certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God’s work among you, are you? I said it before and I’ll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don’t eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.

22-23 Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don’t impose it on others. You’re fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you’re not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you’re out of line. If the way you live isn’t consistent with what you believe, then it’s wrong.

So essentially, in my interpretation after reading a variety of translations of this chapter, it's saying each person should do all they do in service of God, worry about your relationship with God and make sure you're following your own beliefs, and if someone has a different relationship with God than you do, it's actually harmful to them for you to point it out. Basically, if you believe something isn't a sin and you have reconciled that belief within your relationship with God, then you are correct for your own life. If someone else believes that thing is a sin, then they are correct for their own life. Neither should try to convince the other because doing so creates a stumbling stone on their path to heaven.

I'd love to hear from Christians about whether they agree with this interpretation and whether they are already following these words or not. I'd also love to know, truly, if you've actually read the entire Bible.
The Message is like in interpretation by a pretty good preacher with a point of view, who really does their homework and usually gets things right. I was impressed with the work here to paraphrase in this chapter. Good stuff.

If there is something you'd like to discuss in particular, I think you'd find me the opposite of many that are dogmatically attached to a doctrine and just needing to argue. We could discuss or explore anything together. I don't really have an agenda, and have found that some things that seems to me long ago to be contradictory got resolved as I read more, and again, and in a more complete way.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Most Christians in history never read the Bible. It's a modern Protestant idea that it's required to, who is honestly is closer to an Islamic view. I've read a large part of it and am familiar with most of it.
 
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