Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Thelogically Islam is like Christianity with Paul or his doctrine.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Christianity vs. Islam
- Thread starter Jesuslightoftheworld
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The point being the Devil, as it is known and exists to Christians, is utterly foreign and non-existant in Judaism.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Only if you ignore what devil means and how that meaning is applied in Exodus 20:16
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
No. The Christian devil does not exist in any way in Judaism. They have a word something like "satan," a verb meaning roughly "to oppose," with "ha-Satan" basically being a title for "the Adversary," but this is most definitely an angel of god and loyal and obedient and clearly not the Christian Devil.
Thou shalt not bear false witness has nothing to do with any sort of devil. It just means don't lie.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Denying the facts doesn't add anything to your argument. Satan and the devil are different, a satan is an adversary while a devil is a slanderer. In Christianity demons are associated with the devil, and demons are mentioned in Judaism.
Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils[שדים]
Psalm 106:27
שד = demon
Bearing false witness is worse than simply lying because it can be vindictive.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I'm not the one trying to stretch things into something they are not and make comparisons that don't exist. There is no entity or character in Judaism comparable to the Christian Devil.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
How do you think I'm doing that?
An adversary can also be a false accuser. Job did not curse YHWH.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:11
Last edited by a moderator:
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Because I say there is no Devil character in Judaism like there is in Christianity, but you keep going on about this word and that word that do not make a devil character comparable to what Christianity has.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
So you're just restating your denial and misrepresenting what I said. Got it.
There is no devil in Judaism as in Christianity and Islam. Satan is a title not a name; it is a title that means 'accuser' or 'one who hinders'. He is wholly subservient to G-d and is there to do G-d's bidding as he does in the Book of Job. As a being he is mentioned only a handful of times in the whole Tanakh. Satan has a job to do as any other angel, and his job is to accuse in the way of an attorney or prosecutor, as well as test people - particularly righteous people. He can do nothing without G-d's prior say-so. In other Jewish circles Satan is not even seen as a material being but an immaterial conception of one's yetzer ha'ra, the evil inclination.
Shadow Wolf is not making this up; she has no dog in this fight as she is neither a Jew nor a Christian and has nothing to gain from taking either side. The word 'devil' has a Greek root not a Hebrew one and as the Tanakh is written in Hebrew and Aramaic, this word is not there.
Last edited:
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The Satan of Job 2:4 fits the description.
Or adversary.
"G-d" is ambiguous.
The title doesn't always refer to the same being.
Satan itsn't always an angel/messenger: 2 Samuel 24:2, 1 Chronicles 21:1
The Greek root word is diablos, the closest Hebrew words are שעירם or שדים
שעירם is also translated as goats, and is suggestive of goat's horns.
And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils[שעירם], after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.
Leviticus 17:7
Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils [שדים],
Psalm 106:37
I'm really not sure how. In the whole book we see that Satan is under G-d's control.
Yes.
How?
Well isn't that convenient for you? Even if it doesn't, your claim that there is a devil figure in the Tanakh is wrong and I'd like to see evidence of one.
Yes, I mentioned that Satan is also defined in Judaism as the yetzer ha'ra, the evil inclination. I'm not sure what your issue is with these passages.
Alternate translations say sartyrs. Another says demons. The text also does not align whatever these beings are with Satan.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
But ye are they that forsake YHWH, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for GD, and that furnish the drink offering unto MNY.
Isaiah 65:11
Although the existence of a god named Gad has long been recognized (Noth 1966: 126-127), the general tendency of biblical scholarship has been to treat him as an abstract figure exclusively associated with the concept of fortune and thus essentially a lesser divinity in the West Semitic pantheon.
The god Gad « Religion and Literature of Ancient Palestine
Even if you you're talking about the God of the Bible the ambiguity remains, since theos and elohim are both translated as "God", and one is singular while the other is plural.
The judges are also called elohim, what's your point?
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You said "He is wholly subservient to G-d and is there to do G-d's bidding as he does in the Book of Job."
The ambiguity remains.
What's ambiguous about Satan being subservient to his Creator?
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Why are you avoiding the issue of the ambiguity of "G-d"?
What are you talking about? Writing G-d with a dash is a Jewish custom, I'm not avoiding anything. If anything you're the one not answering any of my questions.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The fact that it's a custom doesn't mean that it's unambiguous. What 'G-d' are you talking about with reference to the book of Job?
There's only one G-d in Tanakh.