coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
I told you. Either answer yes or no, and then we would begin. Not a moment before.
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A dialogue about Prophecy & doctrines between the WTS/JW & Seventh-day Adventist
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coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
As there are currently no members of the WTS/JW org that is willing to discuss the topic that is brought up the most (even in this very thread, over and over and over again, even though it wasn't the topic of OP), such as the Deity of Jesus (the Son), also the eternal Personhood of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, I will begin to address another issue with the theology of the Watchtower, which is to say the very human nature of the Son, Jesus Christ. The Watchtower, in following its Catholic Bible (NWT; based in Catholic MSS), teaches the very doctrine of anti-christ, which is to say that they teach that the Son was manifest in unfallen flesh of mankind:
Notice the WTS/JW teaching:
Notice the Roman Catholic-like doctrine:
Yet the Bible (KJB) doesn't teach that Jesus (the Son of the Father) took upon Himself the unfallen flesh nature of Adam before the fall, but rather that Jesus (the Son of the Father) took upon Himself the fallen sinful flesh nature of Adam after the fall, as every child of Adam born afterwards had.
Thus, the teaching of Roman Catholicism (koine Greek: Anti-Christ; Latin: Vicarivs Christi) is found not only in Islam (as it must be, for its origins are in Roman Catholicism), but also in the Watchtower and Tract Society teachings, as their own NWT is of Catholic origins.
The Bible says:
This shall be demonstrated more thoroughly in additional response to the WTS/JW claims. This entirely affects the redemption plan as foretold in prophecy (as under OP). This teaching that Jesus came in the unfallen flesh of Adam before the fall is diabolical (meaning of the devil) and destroys the message of the Everlasting Gospel itself:
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Notice the WTS/JW teaching:
"... He was a perfect man, having a perfect human body of flesh and blood, a perfect human organism. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Notice the Roman Catholic-like doctrine:
(which also the doctrine of Islam follows, having origins with that system, see "Tafsir of al-Jalalayn on Surah 3:33-36 - '... ‘And I have named her Mary, and commend her to You with her seed, her children, to protect them from the accursed, the outcast, Satan’. In a hadīth [it is stated]: ‘Every new-born is touched by Satan and begins [life] by crying, except for Mary and her son’, as reported by the two Shaykhs [Bukhārī and Muslim]. ...'”; see also Surah 19 (Maryam);
Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:
Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but Satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, EXCEPT MARY AND HER CHILD." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast Satan" (3.36) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 641; see also Volume 4, Book 54, Number 506)
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but he is pricked by the satan and he begins to weep because of the pricking of the satan EXCEPT THE SON OF MARY AND HIS MOTHER. Abu Huraira then said: You may recite if you so like (the verse):" I seek Thy protection for her and her offspring against satan the accursed" (iii. 36). This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters (and the words are):" The newborn child is touched by the satan (when he comes in the world) and he starts crying because of the touch of satan." In the hadith transmitted on the authority of Shu'aib there is a slight variation of wording. (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5837)
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The satan touches every son of Adam on the day when his mother gives birth to him WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MARY AND HER SON. (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5838; see also Book 033, Number 6429)):
Narrated Said bin Al-Musaiyab:
Abu Huraira said, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'There is none born among the off-spring of Adam, but Satan touches it. A child therefore, cries loudly at the time of birth because of the touch of Satan, EXCEPT MARY AND HER CHILD." Then Abu Huraira recited: "And I seek refuge with You for her and for her offspring from the outcast Satan" (3.36) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 641; see also Volume 4, Book 54, Number 506)
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but he is pricked by the satan and he begins to weep because of the pricking of the satan EXCEPT THE SON OF MARY AND HIS MOTHER. Abu Huraira then said: You may recite if you so like (the verse):" I seek Thy protection for her and her offspring against satan the accursed" (iii. 36). This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters (and the words are):" The newborn child is touched by the satan (when he comes in the world) and he starts crying because of the touch of satan." In the hadith transmitted on the authority of Shu'aib there is a slight variation of wording. (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5837)
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The satan touches every son of Adam on the day when his mother gives birth to him WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MARY AND HER SON. (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5838; see also Book 033, Number 6429)):
"... But having a perfect Father as his life source, he did not inherit imperfection from his imperfect mother Mary. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"... This shows that he understood what it meant to be tired, that he had merely a human body with its capacities and limitations as designed by God, yet being perfect and able to live forever just as Adam and Eve’s bodies could have existed forever had they remained faithful. When Jesus was baptized at the age of thirty he was a perfect man, the exact equivalent of Adam, who was perfect in Eden. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"... This shows that he understood what it meant to be tired, that he had merely a human body with its capacities and limitations as designed by God, yet being perfect and able to live forever just as Adam and Eve’s bodies could have existed forever had they remained faithful. When Jesus was baptized at the age of thirty he was a perfect man, the exact equivalent of Adam, who was perfect in Eden. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"...Therefore we can see that the thirty-year-old Jesus, although he ate the food that was eaten by the people of his day, was not deteriorated in body by it, but remained perfect. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"... Jehovah proved that human flesh can be sinless. “God, by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh.” (Ro 8:3) ..." - Flesh — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"...What happened to the perfect fleshly body of Jesus after his death? Was it preserved so that in time men will look upon it in worship? or does Jesus still have this fleshly body in the heavens, “spiritualized” so that it can be seen and worshiped? Neither. The Scriptures answer: It was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Roman Catholicism, teaches that Jesus came in the unfallen flesh of mankind, the same flesh as Adam had before the fall."... Jehovah proved that human flesh can be sinless. “God, by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh.” (Ro 8:3) ..." - Flesh — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"...What happened to the perfect fleshly body of Jesus after his death? Was it preserved so that in time men will look upon it in worship? or does Jesus still have this fleshly body in the heavens, “spiritualized” so that it can be seen and worshiped? Neither. The Scriptures answer: It was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms. ..." - The Fleshly Body of Jesus — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"... I admit we [Catholics] speak glowingly of Mary (who doesn't love and speak well of their mother?), but in this context I was being the prosaic, theological one. I wasn't using poetic, superlative language about the Blessed Virgin. I was simply laying out the logic: Jesus was the sinless Son of God. He took his sinless human nature from his mother. For that human nature to be really human and really sinless its human source must have been uniquely pure. This seems to be a simple, logical, and modest claim." - Source: Mary: A Catholic / Evangelical Debate, By Dwight Longenecker, David Gustafson, Gracewing Publishing, 2003, ISBN 0852445822, pg. 55.
" ... So much is Mary's very being full of grace that this title [Immaculate Conception] serves to identify Mary in place of her own name. It is also true that no person with a fallen nature could possess a fullness of grace, a plentitude of grace, appropriate only for the woman who was to give God the Son an identical, immaculate human nature. Mary was conceived in providence to be the woman who would give her same immaculate nature to God when God became man. Certainly we can see the fittingness in God receiving a human nature from a human mother, and receiving an immaculate nature from a truly immaculate mother." - Source: The Four Marian Dogmas, By Mark Miravalle, Mother of all Peoples web site, Friday, 06 January 2006, excerpted from Introduction to Mary: The Heart of Marian Doctrine and Devotion, Queenship Publishing, 1993, ISBN 1-882972-06-6, pg. 39.
"... we affirm that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the Word of God, who in His divine nature is from all eternity begotten of the Father, consubstantial with Him, was in the fullness of time again begotten, by be born of the Virgin, thus taking to Himself, from her maternal womb, a human nature of the same substance with hers." - Source The Faith Of Our Fathers by James Cardinal Gibbons, 38th edition, 1891 by John Murphy & Company, Baltimore, R. Washbourne, London, page 198.
The same quote of Cardinal Gibbons appears in The Faith of Millions, by the Reverend John A. O'Brien, PH.D, copyright by John A. O'Brien 1938, published by Our Sunday Visitor, 1974, Huntington, Indiana, page 366.
" ... So much is Mary's very being full of grace that this title [Immaculate Conception] serves to identify Mary in place of her own name. It is also true that no person with a fallen nature could possess a fullness of grace, a plentitude of grace, appropriate only for the woman who was to give God the Son an identical, immaculate human nature. Mary was conceived in providence to be the woman who would give her same immaculate nature to God when God became man. Certainly we can see the fittingness in God receiving a human nature from a human mother, and receiving an immaculate nature from a truly immaculate mother." - Source: The Four Marian Dogmas, By Mark Miravalle, Mother of all Peoples web site, Friday, 06 January 2006, excerpted from Introduction to Mary: The Heart of Marian Doctrine and Devotion, Queenship Publishing, 1993, ISBN 1-882972-06-6, pg. 39.
"... we affirm that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, the Word of God, who in His divine nature is from all eternity begotten of the Father, consubstantial with Him, was in the fullness of time again begotten, by be born of the Virgin, thus taking to Himself, from her maternal womb, a human nature of the same substance with hers." - Source The Faith Of Our Fathers by James Cardinal Gibbons, 38th edition, 1891 by John Murphy & Company, Baltimore, R. Washbourne, London, page 198.
The same quote of Cardinal Gibbons appears in The Faith of Millions, by the Reverend John A. O'Brien, PH.D, copyright by John A. O'Brien 1938, published by Our Sunday Visitor, 1974, Huntington, Indiana, page 366.
Yet the Bible (KJB) doesn't teach that Jesus (the Son of the Father) took upon Himself the unfallen flesh nature of Adam before the fall, but rather that Jesus (the Son of the Father) took upon Himself the fallen sinful flesh nature of Adam after the fall, as every child of Adam born afterwards had.
Thus, the teaching of Roman Catholicism (koine Greek: Anti-Christ; Latin: Vicarivs Christi) is found not only in Islam (as it must be, for its origins are in Roman Catholicism), but also in the Watchtower and Tract Society teachings, as their own NWT is of Catholic origins.
The Bible says:
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
This shall be demonstrated more thoroughly in additional response to the WTS/JW claims. This entirely affects the redemption plan as foretold in prophecy (as under OP). This teaching that Jesus came in the unfallen flesh of Adam before the fall is diabolical (meaning of the devil) and destroys the message of the Everlasting Gospel itself:
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coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
What does the Bible really teach? Not what the WTS.JW org teaches, that's for sure:
Hebrews 2:16 KJB - For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
The question then is, what kind of nature do unfallen [ooops, I gave it away] Heavenly Angels have, as opposed to every child of fallen Adam, and since Jesus did not take on that nature of Heavenly angels, that only leaves the other.Hebrews 2:16 KJB - For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
If it were not so, Jesus could never have "condemned sin in the flesh", being His flesh that He took upon Himself.
Romans 8:3 KJB - For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [for "likeness" see Philippians 2:7; Romans 6:5]
1 Peter 4:1 KJB - Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
Hebrews 2:17 KJB - Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Galatians 4:4 KJB - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Romans 5:19 KJB - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The so-called Evangelical 'gospel' is no Gospel at all when compared to the infinite value of the True and Everlasting Gospel...
LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH
The lineage of Jesus in ancestral parentage given in both Matthew [Matthew 1:1-18; "son of David, the son of Abraham"] and Luke [Luke 3:23-38; "[son of] Adam", etc] is easily seen in the lives and history of Jesus' ancestors, of which He Himself inherited of their fleshly nature which was made of a woman.
Jesus has for flesh and blood ancestors, murderers, thieves, harlots, idolators, etc, but none of that makes Him as such [a sinner], but He did and does inherit the flesh and blood, fallen flesh nature, like as we. For He was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin, and His temptations were far greater [not less].
How many sons of Adam were born from Adam after His sin? All of them, including all of us here, and also Jesus, being born of Mary [Matthew 1:16], who was of the line, the seed according to the flesh, of David.
David acknowledges his heritage of flesh in the Psalms, and Jesus is called the "son of David", and also the "son of Abraham". Did they have sinful flesh? Were they born after Adam's fall? Yes.
To be born with sinful flesh is not to be born with the guilt of sin/transgression. The scripture teaches that to [commit] sin [of commission or omission] is to be a transgressor [of the Law], not simply being born with sinful flesh.
If all will go with me to other scriptures please, where it describes this "flesh" [sarx]:
"And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us..." [John 1:14]
"GOD manifest in the flesh" [1 Timothy 3:16],
"the LORD from Heaven" [1 Corinthians 15:47],
"made of a woman" [Galatians 4:4],
"made of the seed of David according to the flesh" [Romans 1:3],
"...to every seed his own body..." [1 Corinthians 15:38],
"...of the fruit of his [David's] loins, according to the flesh..." [Acts 2:30]
of the "seed of Abraham" [Hebrews 2:16],
even "as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same" [Hebrews 2:14] [what flesh are we born with, that He partook of then, what blood?]
and "in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren" [Hebrews 2:17],
that we might have "...known Christ after the flesh..." [2 Corinthians 5:16],
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
and scripture giving us the family line and genealogy of that very flesh [sarx] and blood nature He took upon Himself [Matthew 1:1-25; Luke 3:23-38]
"... lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5] [notice that the lamb's flesh was from a fallen world, so it had fallen flesh nature also]
"… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]
"...the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]
"...For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]
"… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]
"… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]
"… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]
"The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]
"… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]
"… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]
"...lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]
"...this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]
"… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]
"...I have kept my Father's commandments..." [John 15:10]
"...I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]
"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]
"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]
"...the obedience of one..." [Romans 5:19]
"...who knew no sin..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]
"...without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]
"...[who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." [Hebrews 7:26]
"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]
"...in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]
the "[the son] of Adam" [Luke 3:38]
as it is said, "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" [Philippians 2:7],
and "...in the days of His flesh..." [Hebrews 5:7],
"was in all points tempted like as [we are yet] without sin" [Hebrews 4:15],
and in His death it is written, "...my flesh shall rest in hope..." [Acts 2:26], and
"...his soul [being/person] was not left in the grave, neither his flesh did see corruption..." [Acts 2:31] because He was/is...
"holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]
that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]
and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]
born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],
where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:as it is said, "made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" [Philippians 2:7],
and "...in the days of His flesh..." [Hebrews 5:7],
"was in all points tempted like as [we are yet] without sin" [Hebrews 4:15],
and in His death it is written, "...my flesh shall rest in hope..." [Acts 2:26], and
"...his soul [being/person] was not left in the grave, neither his flesh did see corruption..." [Acts 2:31] because He was/is...
"holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]
that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]
and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]
born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],
"... lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5] [notice that the lamb's flesh was from a fallen world, so it had fallen flesh nature also]
"… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]
"...the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]
"...For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]
"… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]
"… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]
"… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]
"The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]
"… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]
"… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]
"...lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]
"...this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]
"… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]
"...I have kept my Father's commandments..." [John 15:10]
"...I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]
"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]
"...I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]
"...the obedience of one..." [Romans 5:19]
"...who knew no sin..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]
"...without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]
"...[who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." [Hebrews 7:26]
"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]
"...in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
...and thereby, in the same likeness of sinful flesh as we, yet living without sin, never having sinned, never once transgressed the Holy Law of God; Jesus showed that with God there is no excuse for sin and thus "...condemned sin in the flesh." [Romans 8:3]; Which Flesh? The sinful (fallen) flesh which He took upon Himself.
Therefore, it is very important to understand with what flesh Jesus came, not only to the Everlasting Gospel [Genesis 3:15; Revelation 14:6-7, etc], and how Christ Jesus is to save us from sin [Matthew 1:21; not in it] and to redeem us unto God, it is written,
And who teaches that Jesus did not come in that sinful flesh?
ROME, that Mother of Harlots, through its Immaculate Conception of Mary Dogma, and others who teach that Jesus had unfallen flesh while living out His life here...
...and also her daughters [Apostate Protestantism], which does not teach the immaculate conception, but removes from Jesus that flesh nonetheless, even as do the Jehovah's Witnesses [etc] do...
...there are many "...not discerning the Lord's body." [1 Corinthians 11:29]
Please read Romans 5 carefully and prayerfully, and especially see Romans 5:19 and read it several times and come to understand what it is powerfully saying, along with all the places in Revelation which speaks about over coming, even as He overcame in the flesh.
"...having crucified the flesh..." [Galatians 5:24],
and "...nailing it to His cross." [Colossians 2:4],
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh..." [1 Peter 4:1];
even "...being put to death in the flesh..." [1 Peter 3:18],
and we are to be "...crucified with Christ..." [Galatians 5:24],
"In the body of His flesh through death..." [Colossians 1:22],
become dead to the penalty of the Law, the 2nd Death, "...by the body of Christ..." [Romans 7:4],
that we might be "...members of His body, and of His flesh, and of His bones." [Ephesians 5:30],
by a "...new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh;" [Hebrews 10:20]
so that we may know this, "...Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." [Romans 6:6]
"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" [Hebrews 10:5]
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." [1 Peter 2:24]
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]." [Hebrews 10:10]
Therefore, we have this hope, "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." [Philippians 3:21]
and "...nailing it to His cross." [Colossians 2:4],
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh..." [1 Peter 4:1];
even "...being put to death in the flesh..." [1 Peter 3:18],
and we are to be "...crucified with Christ..." [Galatians 5:24],
"In the body of His flesh through death..." [Colossians 1:22],
become dead to the penalty of the Law, the 2nd Death, "...by the body of Christ..." [Romans 7:4],
that we might be "...members of His body, and of His flesh, and of His bones." [Ephesians 5:30],
by a "...new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh;" [Hebrews 10:20]
so that we may know this, "...Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." [Romans 6:6]
"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" [Hebrews 10:5]
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." [1 Peter 2:24]
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]." [Hebrews 10:10]
Therefore, we have this hope, "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." [Philippians 3:21]
Therefore, it is very important to understand with what flesh Jesus came, not only to the Everlasting Gospel [Genesis 3:15; Revelation 14:6-7, etc], and how Christ Jesus is to save us from sin [Matthew 1:21; not in it] and to redeem us unto God, it is written,
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:" [1 John 4:2]
What flesh is John speaking about? The very likeness of sinful flesh we have, of the race of Adam, for he says, "...our hands have handled, of the Word of life." [1 John 1:1]
And it is written of those which refuse this, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [1 John 4:3]
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." [2 John 1:7]
What flesh is John speaking about? The very likeness of sinful flesh we have, of the race of Adam, for he says, "...our hands have handled, of the Word of life." [1 John 1:1]
And it is written of those which refuse this, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." [1 John 4:3]
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." [2 John 1:7]
And who teaches that Jesus did not come in that sinful flesh?
ROME, that Mother of Harlots, through its Immaculate Conception of Mary Dogma, and others who teach that Jesus had unfallen flesh while living out His life here...
...and also her daughters [Apostate Protestantism], which does not teach the immaculate conception, but removes from Jesus that flesh nonetheless, even as do the Jehovah's Witnesses [etc] do...
...there are many "...not discerning the Lord's body." [1 Corinthians 11:29]
Please read Romans 5 carefully and prayerfully, and especially see Romans 5:19 and read it several times and come to understand what it is powerfully saying, along with all the places in Revelation which speaks about over coming, even as He overcame in the flesh.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
That which is also important to note about Jesus, is that He not only eternally exists, but took upon Himself, the flesh of men, being born of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, thus He is Holy [a small sampling]:
Yet, please take note, that the Flesh and Spirit are two things:
Isaiah 31:1 KJB - Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!
Isaiah 37:23 KJB - Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 40:25 KJB - To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Isaiah 41:14 KJB - Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 41:16 KJB - Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 41:20 KJB - That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
Isaiah 43:3 KJB - For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 43:14 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
Isaiah 43:15 KJB - I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 45:11 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isaiah 47:4 KJB - As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 48:17 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 49:7 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
Isaiah 54:5 KJB - For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isaiah 55:5 KJB - Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 60:9 KJB - Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 60:14 KJB - The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
Habakkuk 1:12 KJB - Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
Habakkuk 3:3 KJB - God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.
Matthew 1:18 KJB - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:24 KJB - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Luke 1:35 KJB - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 2:23 KJB - (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
Luke 4:34 KJB - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
Acts 2:27 KJB- Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 3:14 KJB - But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Acts 4:27 KJB - For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Acts 4:30 KJB - By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Acts 13:35 KJB - Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Romans 11:16 KJB - For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
1 Peter 1:15 KJB - But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1 Peter 1:16 KJB - Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Isaiah 37:23 KJB - Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 40:25 KJB - To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Isaiah 41:14 KJB - Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 41:16 KJB - Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 41:20 KJB - That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
Isaiah 43:3 KJB - For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 43:14 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
Isaiah 43:15 KJB - I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 45:11 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isaiah 47:4 KJB - As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 48:17 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 49:7 KJB - Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
Isaiah 54:5 KJB - For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isaiah 55:5 KJB - Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 60:9 KJB - Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 60:14 KJB - The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
Habakkuk 1:12 KJB - Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
Habakkuk 3:3 KJB - God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.
Matthew 1:18 KJB - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:24 KJB - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Luke 1:35 KJB - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 2:23 KJB - (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
Luke 4:34 KJB - Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
Acts 2:27 KJB- Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 3:14 KJB - But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Acts 4:27 KJB - For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
Acts 4:30 KJB - By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
Acts 13:35 KJB - Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Romans 11:16 KJB - For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
1 Peter 1:15 KJB - But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1 Peter 1:16 KJB - Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Yet, please take note, that the Flesh and Spirit are two things:
John 3:6 KJB - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Yes hell= Hades and Sheol. Sheol and hades translate the grave, so does hell then in reality.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
State of the dead:
What Happens When You Die? | Truth About Death
Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth
Ghosts: Who Are They? | Ghost Truth
Where Do People Go When They Die?
Plenty more resources here -
Library of Resources: - SDA Maranatha Multicultural Church in American Samoa
As for Instance:
Is The Virgin Mary Dead Or Alive – Danny Vierra (PDF)
The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 01 – LeRoy Edwin Froom (PDF)
The Conditionalist Faith Of Our Fathers Volume 02 – LeRoy Edwin Froom (PDF)
Misunderstood Texts On The State Of The Dead – Secrets Unsealed – Stephen Bohr (PDF)
Study Guide 10 – Are The Dead Really Dead – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Study Guide 11 – Is The Devil In Charge Of Hell – Amazing Facts (PDF)
The Afterlife Mystery – Doug Batchelor – Amazing Facts – AFScan (PDF)
The Final Mystery – Book – Doug Batchelor – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Storacles Of Prophecy 09 – The Witch Of Endor – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Storacles Of Prophecy 10 – Cities Of Ash – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Amazing Adventure Study Guide 08 – Whistling Through The Graveyard – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Absent From The Body – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Library Of Sermons 10 – Spirits From Other Worlds – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Library Of Sermons 15 – Hell-fire A Twisted Truth Untangled – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Library Of Sermons 18 – Spirits Of The Dead – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Library Of Sermons 24 – Heaven Is It For Real – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Library Of Sermons 28 – The Rich Man And Lazarus – Pocket Book – Joe Crews – Amazing Facts (PDF)
Marian Messages An Insider Look At Catholicisms Visions And Teachings – Vance Ferrell (PDF)
Witchcraft Ruins Lives – Vance Ferrell (PDF)
The Great Controversy (1911) – Ellen G White (PDF)
Hidden Truth Magazine – Amazing Facts (PDF)
With more evidence from scripture as necessary. Just ask about the text or passage. Fa'afetai lava.
What about the other material on the nature of Jesus' flesh?
What of the other question concerning Proverbs 8, did you want to look at it together, yes/no? (if not, I will move to the next issue)
kjw47
Well-Known Member
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
So is:
Gen_17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Joh_8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh_8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
theQuestion
Member
___________________________________________________________________________________________
SZ, guessing about God's prophecies will ALWAYS be QUESSING...until they actually start happening.
So why sweat it- when figuring out who God and Christ really are- and all the REST is FAR more important?
theQuestion
Member
____________________________________________
"I Am" is now know to be an erroneous interpretation of Ex 3- and Jesus didn't speak e-bonics.
Take a look at your replies and understand why JW's have no interest in responding to you......you are not teaching people anything.....you are drowning them in information that you deem to be truth.....do you understand why people are running away?......you aren't listening......just talking and talking and talking......take a breath and understand what you are doing. No one will respond to you because you are not talking TO anyone...you are talking AT them....forcing your beliefs on them.....did Jesus do that?
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
I actually know it to be another reason.Take a look at your replies and understand why JW's have no interest in responding to you......you are not teaching people anything.....you are drowning them in information that you deem to be truth.....do you understand why people are running away?......you aren't listening......just talking and talking and talking......take a breath and understand what you are doing. No one will respond to you because you are not talking TO anyone...you are talking AT them....forcing your beliefs on them.....did Jesus do that?
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
You still do not understand "theMadJW", that Jesus and Prophecy are linked together in every place they are found in scripture:
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
If only you would watch this series, you would see that, in such detail, but you won't, so I leave it for others:
Jesus was all about "time":
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mat_26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Jesus' clock, can be seen in several places in scripture, such as Leviticus 23; Daniel 8-9, etc.Mat_26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Separate Jesus from the prophecies of time, and you lose who Jesus is.
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
Only Deity, can truly say the following and be without sin:
I AM the Bread of Life
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:35 ειπεν δε αυτοις ο ιησους εγω ειμι ο αρτος της ζωης ο ερχομενος προς με ου μη πειναση και ο πιστευων εις εμε ου μη διψηση πωποτε
Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:41 εγογγυζον ουν οι ιουδαιοι περι αυτου οτι ειπεν εγω ειμι ο αρτος ο καταβας εκ του ουρανου
Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:48 εγω ειμι ο αρτος της ζωης
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh 6:51 εγω ειμι ο αρτος ο ζων ο εκ του ουρανου καταβας εαν τις φαγη εκ τουτου του αρτου ζησεται εις τον αιωνα και ο αρτος δε ον εγω δωσω η σαρξ μου εστιν ην εγω δωσω υπερ της του κοσμου ζωης
Joh 6:35 ειπεν δε αυτοις ο ιησους εγω ειμι ο αρτος της ζωης ο ερχομενος προς με ου μη πειναση και ο πιστευων εις εμε ου μη διψηση πωποτε
Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:41 εγογγυζον ουν οι ιουδαιοι περι αυτου οτι ειπεν εγω ειμι ο αρτος ο καταβας εκ του ουρανου
Joh_6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:48 εγω ειμι ο αρτος της ζωης
Joh_6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh 6:51 εγω ειμι ο αρτος ο ζων ο εκ του ουρανου καταβας εαν τις φαγη εκ τουτου του αρτου ζησεται εις τον αιωνα και ο αρτος δε ον εγω δωσω η σαρξ μου εστιν ην εγω δωσω υπερ της του κοσμου ζωης
I AM the Light of the World:
Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Joh 8:12 παλιν ουν ο ιησους αυτοις ελαλησεν λεγων εγω ειμι το φως του κοσμου ο ακολουθων εμοι ου μη περιπατησει εν τη σκοτια αλλ εξει το φως της ζωης
Joh_9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
Joh 9:5 οταν εν τω κοσμω ω φως ειμι του κοσμου
I AM One that Bear Witness of Myself:
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh_8:18 εγω ειμι ο μαρτυρων περι εμαυτου και μαρτυρει περι εμου ο πεμψας με πατηρ
I AM before Abraham:
Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh 8:24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:58 ειπεν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
Joh 8:24 ειπον ουν υμιν οτι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εαν γαρ μη πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι αποθανεισθε εν ταις αμαρτιαις υμων
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:58 ειπεν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι
I AM the Crucified One:
Joh_8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Joh 8:28 ειπεν ουν αυτοις ο ιησους οταν υψωσητε τον υιον του ανθρωπου τοτε γνωσεσθε οτι εγω ειμι και απ εμαυτου ποιω ουδεν αλλα καθως εδιδαξεν με ο πατηρ μου ταυτα λαλω
Joh 8:28 ειπεν ουν αυτοις ο ιησους οταν υψωσητε τον υιον του ανθρωπου τοτε γνωσεσθε οτι εγω ειμι και απ εμαυτου ποιω ουδεν αλλα καθως εδιδαξεν με ο πατηρ μου ταυτα λαλω
I AM the Door (Sanctuary; Psalms 77:13):
Joh_10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:7 ειπεν ουν παλιν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν οτι εγω ειμι η θυρα των προβατων
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:9 εγω ειμι η θυρα δι εμου εαν τις εισελθη σωθησεται και εισελευσεται και εξελευσεται και νομην ευρησει
Joh 10:7 ειπεν ουν παλιν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν οτι εγω ειμι η θυρα των προβατων
Joh_10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:9 εγω ειμι η θυρα δι εμου εαν τις εισελθη σωθησεται και εισελευσεται και εξελευσεται και νομην ευρησει
I AM the Good Shepherd:
Joh_10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:11 εγω ειμι ο ποιμην ο καλος ο ποιμην ο καλος την ψυχην αυτου τιθησιν υπερ των προβατων
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:14 εγω ειμι ο ποιμην ο καλος και γινωσκω τα εμα και γινωσκομαι υπο των εμων
Joh 10:11 εγω ειμι ο ποιμην ο καλος ο ποιμην ο καλος την ψυχην αυτου τιθησιν υπερ των προβατων
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:14 εγω ειμι ο ποιμην ο καλος και γινωσκω τα εμα και γινωσκομαι υπο των εμων
I AM the Resurrection and the Life:
Joh_11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:25 ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life:
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:6 λεγει αυτω ο ιησους εγω ειμι η οδος και η αληθεια και η ζωη ουδεις ερχεται προς τον πατερα ει μη δι εμου
I AM the True Vine:
Joh_15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:1 εγω ειμι η αμπελος η αληθινη και ο πατηρ μου ο γεωργος εστιν
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:5 εγω ειμι η αμπελος υμεις τα κληματα ο μενων εν εμοι καγω εν αυτω ουτος φερει καρπον πολυν οτι χωρις εμου ου δυνασθε ποιειν ουδεν
Joh 15:1 εγω ειμι η αμπελος η αληθινη και ο πατηρ μου ο γεωργος εστιν
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:5 εγω ειμι η αμπελος υμεις τα κληματα ο μενων εν εμοι καγω εν αυτω ουτος φερει καρπον πολυν οτι χωρις εμου ου δυνασθε ποιειν ουδεν
I AM -
Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh_18:5 απεκριθησαν αυτω ιησουν τον ναζωραιον λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους εγω ειμι ειστηκει δε και ιουδας ο παραδιδους αυτον μετ αυτων
Joh_18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Joh 18:6 ως ουν ειπεν αυτοις οτι εγω ειμι απηλθον εις τα οπισω και επεσον χαμαι
Joh_18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
Joh 18:8 απεκριθη ο ιησους ειπον υμιν οτι εγω ειμι ει ουν εμε ζητειτε αφετε τουτους υπαγειν
Joh_13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Joh 13:19 απ αρτι λεγω υμιν προ του γενεσθαι ινα οταν γενηται πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι
Joh 6:20 But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.
Joh_6:20 ο δε λεγει αυτοις εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε
Joh_18:5 απεκριθησαν αυτω ιησουν τον ναζωραιον λεγει αυτοις ο ιησους εγω ειμι ειστηκει δε και ιουδας ο παραδιδους αυτον μετ αυτων
Joh_18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Joh 18:6 ως ουν ειπεν αυτοις οτι εγω ειμι απηλθον εις τα οπισω και επεσον χαμαι
Joh_18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
Joh 18:8 απεκριθη ο ιησους ειπον υμιν οτι εγω ειμι ει ουν εμε ζητειτε αφετε τουτους υπαγειν
Joh_13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
Joh 13:19 απ αρτι λεγω υμιν προ του γενεσθαι ινα οταν γενηται πιστευσητε οτι εγω ειμι
Joh 6:20 But he saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid.
Joh_6:20 ο δε λεγει αυτοις εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε
I AM (Bonus) - The first person He said it to, A Samaritan Woman at the Well:
Joh_4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Joh 4:26 λεγει αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι ο λαλων σοι
Joh 4:26 λεγει αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι ο λαλων σοι
Even the WTS/JW Kingdom Interlinear directly translates each word ego eimi as I AM. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/john/8/
purple cover edition 1969: "properly rendered in the perfect tense."
Out of the 134 times that “ego eimi” is used in the WTS/JW NWT it is correctly translated as “I AM” 133 times, but when it comes to the translation where it is clearly in reference to Jesus being the “I AM” [JEHOVAH God, person of the Son] the NWT slips in accuracy.
Even the so-called LXX [Septuagint] shows: και ειπεν ο θεος προς Μωυσην εγω ειμι ο ων και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις Ισραηλ ο ων απεσταλκεν με προς υμας. Exodus 3:14 [LXX]
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cataway
Well-Known Member
your hungup on "I am" ?
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
No. The context deals with more than simply saying "I AM". Here is what I said: "Only Deity, can truly say the following and be without sin:"
cataway
Well-Known Member
what it really is ,is a statement of existence. you can say it even as I can. why ? because I can prove it even as you can. even as Jehovah proved he did by his actions, and Jesus proved he was the Christ by what he did .
coconut theology
coconuts for Jesus
As stated, the matter is not an isolated "I AM", but rather the "I AM" in the context of the verses.
You cannot say, as I cannot say, "I AM the bread of Life" without it being sin. God, JEHOVAH is the bread of Life by which all live:
Deu_8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
You cannot say, as I cannot say, "I AM the Good Shepherd" without it being sin. For it is God, JEHOVAH alone that is "good":
Mar_10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Luk_18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Psa_14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa_14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psa_53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psa_53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom_3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
You cannot say, as I cannot say, "before Abraham was, I AM" without it being sin, for it places the person saying it in the position of God's eternal existence, before creation.Luk_18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Psa_14:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psa_14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psa_53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psa_53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom_3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
And so on.