Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
This is just an excuse that those that cannot defend their interpretation use as an excuse at times.
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Who is "this generation" in Mark 13?
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
sooda
Veteran Member
Yes, Israel.. I don't dispute that at all. In fact I agree that its a failed prophecy because it is clearly supposed to happen within a generation. (40 years)
Or, one can accept that the Christ followers fled to the mountains (Pella) to avoid the tribulation. Its helps to read what Josephus says about the local tribulation and how horrific it was.
sooda
Veteran Member
I agree its a lame excuse to claim that a person has to have a special gift from God before they can understand what they are reading.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It also has the problem of portraying their own God as an evil being. Though they will not let themselves understand that.
sooda
Veteran Member
7 Differences Between Galilee and Judea in the Time of Jesus
This may at first blush sound like interesting background material that is not especially helpful for reading and interpreting the gospels. But Mark and Matthew have structured their narratives around a geographical framework dividing the north and the south, culminating in the confrontation of this prophet from Galilee and the religious establishment of Jerusalem.
Professor France writes: “To read Matthew in blissful ignorance of first-century Palestinian sociopolitics is to miss his point. This is the story of Jesus of Nazareth.”
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Do you know that when the bible speaks of a generation it's not. 40 years..
In the Bible God looks at a Generation as being 14 Generations and in some cases much more than 14 generations..
You see..you look at a generation as being 40 years.
But God does not look at a Generation as consisting of 40 years.
But 14 Generations or more..
In my Generation would consist of me and my children and their children and their children and so on until it comes to
14 Generations or more in some cases.
So when you point to a generation as being
40 years....I don't see a Generation as being
40 years but 14 Generations which is alot more than you Generation of 40 years.
Do you know in the Bible from
king David's to Jesus Christ was 14 Generations.
At the time of king David to Jesus Christ was 2000 years. Which was 14 Generations. That quite a lot more than your Generation of 40 years.
So when the bible speaks of a Generation. It consists of more than just one Generation. But 14 Generations.
As in the book of Matthew 1:1--"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ. the
son of David the son of Abraham"
Therefore from Abraham to King David is
14 generations. and from King David to Jesus Christ is 14 generations.
Matthew 1:17---"So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations"
Therefore a generation consist of
14 Generations and not just one generation. But 14 Generations to be exact.
So when God speaks about a generation.
that generation consist of 14 generations.
So when you speak in and about generation in the bible...God does not look at generation as we humans look generation.
But God see a generation as consisting of
14 generations.
Therefore when Jesus Christ said that this generation shall not pass away until all these things be fulfilled..
That generation being the 14th generation.
And since Jesus Christ to our time
. we're the 14th generation..
So seeing we're the 14 the generation..
If you were to number 1-14. And 14 being the last number. And we're the 14th generation
So how much time do you think the world has before Jesus Christ returns.
Not to much time is left. For 14th generation is getting older and older..so before the
14th generation pass away Jesus Christ returns.
For Jesus Christ did say in
Matthew 24:34--"Verily, I say unto you..
This generation shall not pass away, till
all these things be fulfilled"
Therefore a generation consist of
14 generations. And we're the 14th generation.
So how much time do you think the world has before the return of Jesus Christ..
And seeing the 14th generation is us today. So this 14th generation is getting older each day and before this generation passes away.
And this 14th generation shall not pass away ti these things be fulfilled. Leaves the world with not alot of time before Jesus Christ returns.
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sooda
Veteran Member
14 would be multiple generations (plural) A generation is still 40 years all thru the Bible.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You need to justify that claim. Mere hand waving is not nearly enough.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
As I said God does not look as we look.
God's thoughts are not our thoughts.
Therefore a generation to God consist of
14 generations not one generation.
It seems your trying to bring God down to our way of thinking.
God does think or look in the way we think or look at things..
Isaiah 55:8-9...
8--"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord"
9--"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts"
Therefore a generation to God is
14 generations not one but 14 generations
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The passage you quoted only spoke of 14 generations. There was nothing there that implied one generation was 14 long.
sooda
Veteran Member
Psalms 90:10
Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.
In the Bible when you read about the Patriarchs who lived hundreds of years... divide by 12.. So Noah who lived 930 years actually lived on 77.7 years.
Todays average life expectancy is double the life expectancy in ancient Palestine. Average then being between 30 and 40 years or, A GENERATION.
sooda
Veteran Member
Where is the scripture that says to God a generation is 14 generations?
theQuestion
Member
Matt 24:1- Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.
2- But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.”
3- As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age [ Gk "aion"]?”
Grk "aion"- properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future).
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end).
Since the word used can refer to their 'present' time or a FUTURE time; discernment is needed to understand.
Jesus was murdered in @33 CE, and Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome roughly 35 years later- does that fit with what Jesus foretold?
Matt 24:6- And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7- For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places:
8- all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
In that primitive age where there was no phones, internet, cars, planes, etc- it took much longer for things to happen. All that happening in just 35 years is...stretching it...
Matt 24:12- And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. 13- But he who endures to the end will be saved. 14- And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.
THIS indicates MUCH more time is involved. Adding the nations, the changing of World Powers and their wars (as foretold In Daniel), it becomes obvious that Jesus was foretelling what would happen in THEIR Day- and far Beyond!
Matt 24:15- “So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel [ the march of World Empires, spanning many centiuries], standing in the holy place [ the Temple in their Day] (let the reader understand), 16- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17- let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18- and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 19- And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 20- Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. 21- For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22- And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Was Jesus just referring to 70 AD?
Matt 24:29- “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; 30- then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; 31- and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
If so- this WAS a failed prophecy. I can't accept that, simply because Jesus KNEW he was about to be murdered, and was giving them a glimpse about what would happen in THEIR Day, and the conclusion of it all. There is nothing about him to imply he was delusional, a phony, or a deceiver. Comparing his words with the other prophecies settles the matter.
So, either you are an atheist, a follower of one of the endless false religions- or you BELIEVE what Jesus said- even tho it may take awhile to see how it all plays out!
2- But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.”
3- As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age [ Gk "aion"]?”
Grk "aion"- properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future).
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end).
Since the word used can refer to their 'present' time or a FUTURE time; discernment is needed to understand.
Jesus was murdered in @33 CE, and Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome roughly 35 years later- does that fit with what Jesus foretold?
Matt 24:6- And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7- For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places:
8- all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
In that primitive age where there was no phones, internet, cars, planes, etc- it took much longer for things to happen. All that happening in just 35 years is...stretching it...
Matt 24:12- And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. 13- But he who endures to the end will be saved. 14- And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.
THIS indicates MUCH more time is involved. Adding the nations, the changing of World Powers and their wars (as foretold In Daniel), it becomes obvious that Jesus was foretelling what would happen in THEIR Day- and far Beyond!
Matt 24:15- “So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel [ the march of World Empires, spanning many centiuries], standing in the holy place [ the Temple in their Day] (let the reader understand), 16- then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17- let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18- and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 19- And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 20- Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. 21- For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22- And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Was Jesus just referring to 70 AD?
Matt 24:29- “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; 30- then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; 31- and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
If so- this WAS a failed prophecy. I can't accept that, simply because Jesus KNEW he was about to be murdered, and was giving them a glimpse about what would happen in THEIR Day, and the conclusion of it all. There is nothing about him to imply he was delusional, a phony, or a deceiver. Comparing his words with the other prophecies settles the matter.
So, either you are an atheist, a follower of one of the endless false religions- or you BELIEVE what Jesus said- even tho it may take awhile to see how it all plays out!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Self contradiction does not mean that it is not a failed prophesy. You did not justify your position. You also indicate that you do not understand what is mean in the context of those verse of he word "world". There is no reason to think that it applies to the world as we know it today. The problem is that 'true believers' have constantly found that end time predictions fail. How many failed end time predictions did the JW's go through? I know it was at least four. The problem is that true believers try to edit their claims after the fact. That only fools others of their groups.
And like it or not there are quite a few real Christians that do not make the errors of the JW's.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The eyptomology of "generation" would suggest Jesus was talking about people who were there at the time.
generation | Origin and meaning of generation by Online Etymology Dictionary
generation | Origin and meaning of generation by Online Etymology Dictionary
sooda
Veteran Member
The world in their day was the Roman Empire.
The Book of Daniel is written about the persecutions of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC during the Maccabean Revolt. The Abominidation of Desolation is when Antiochus sacrificed a pig in the Temple to the God Zeus.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
will you just showed yourself...that you don't know anything about what it means to have Spiritual discernment..
So if you understood what spiritual discernment is..then you would have no problems.
Here's what spiritual discernment means..
1 Corinthians 2:14---"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"
Spiritual discernment means. that you take what is written down and spiritually discern to what is actually being said and done..
Lets take John 20:11-12.. now can you spiritual discern what is actually being said in the spiritual realm..
"11-"But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre"
12-"And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain"
Now your reading is in black and white letters..
Now in these two verses. In the spiritual realm. What are these two verses actually saying.
Can you decipher be them and tell what they are actually saying in the spiritual realm..
You read what is written down. and that's all you see what is written down.
that's the natural man's way of doing things.
But the spiritual man reads what's written down but also sees what the spirit of God is actually saying.
All you see is what is written down in black and white or red white letters in the
bible/scriptures..
I not only can read what's in black and white or red white letters.
I also see what the Spirit of God is also saying in those black and white or red white letters in the Bible/scriptures..
So again what is the spirit of God saying in these two verses above in John 20:11-12.
And then explain what the spirit of God is saying in those two verses
theQuestion
Member
JWs are the Christians, and have made wrong guesses as many churches have.
I admire the foolish church-goers who stood on their roofs- for their powerful desire desire for Christ to return- even if jumping the gun.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
why would that b be worthy of admiration?
theQuestion
Member
Their Sheer Desire to be with Christ!