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Nontrinitarian Question regarding SDA study / fellowship
- Thread starter Iymus
- Start date
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Seems it all depends upon individual viewpoints about such things. So use your own viewpoint.
I checked out quite a few different denominations before I realized that there was always something wrong...I would walk away feeling let down...disappointed. When you walk into your spiritual home, you will know it.
Try a free home Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses as well....you never know. Its private and you get to ask all the questions you like.....
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
With so many religions, many denominations, many belief systems these days claiming they are of God
A person should examine its doctrines if they are bible based or not
We should examine if their religion was commissioned by God
and the proof of their commissioning are based on prophecies
and are irrefutable - beyond reasonable doubt, beyond the shadow of the doubt
Otherwise, you might as well join a money pit for a religion - and the bible says these are many
2 Corinthians 2:17 New International Version (NIV)
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
And they won't teach the right doctrines but made up stories, legends, personal interpretations, things which people want to hear instead of God's instructions and commands.
2 Timothy 4:3 New International Version (NIV)
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Peter 2:3 New International Version (NIV)
In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
Hence if the religion, demands its members MONEY AND MO MONEY - you can bet your bottom dollar the religion / church is a money pit and is only interested in your money. Does it have TITHING? If it does, then it violates the teaching of God as recorded in the Bible:
2 Corinthians 9:7 New International Version (NIV)
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
A person should examine its doctrines if they are bible based or not
We should examine if their religion was commissioned by God
and the proof of their commissioning are based on prophecies
and are irrefutable - beyond reasonable doubt, beyond the shadow of the doubt
Otherwise, you might as well join a money pit for a religion - and the bible says these are many
2 Corinthians 2:17 New International Version (NIV)
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.
And they won't teach the right doctrines but made up stories, legends, personal interpretations, things which people want to hear instead of God's instructions and commands.
2 Timothy 4:3 New International Version (NIV)
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Peter 2:3 New International Version (NIV)
In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
Hence if the religion, demands its members MONEY AND MO MONEY - you can bet your bottom dollar the religion / church is a money pit and is only interested in your money. Does it have TITHING? If it does, then it violates the teaching of God as recorded in the Bible:
2 Corinthians 9:7 New International Version (NIV)
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
I don't see anything wrong with going to a bible study or service of any denomination. Just don't openly reject their articles of faith. Especially their number one article.....Jesus is God, the second person of "the Blessed trinity". You'll be viewed as someone who is trying to lead others astray.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Some years back I began attending a weekly bible study and service of a certain denomination. What I disliked most about the group was that they couldn't imagine themselves to be wrong about anything they taught. In fact, the only thing they read other than the Bible was books and articles written by members of their own sect. A real turn-off for me.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Is it possible that Jesus is not the archangel Michael? According to JW's... NO.I checked out quite a few different denominations before I realized that there was always something wrong...I would walk away feeling let down...disappointed. When you walk into your spiritual home, you will know it.
Try a free home Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses as well....you never know. Its private and you get to ask all the questions you like.....
Now, why would I want to attend a Bible study with JW's who think they have all the answers and can't admit that they might be wrong about something?
Iymus
Active Member
yes I perceive it to be wrong to just randomly waltz in their and openly reject there faith when it comes to Deu 6:4. There house their rules so to speak.
I have to ask myself what am I looking to get out of it and what is it's overall worth to me in my own walk
Surely there are other non-Trinitarian denominations or churches out there that align better with your theology? What is it that attracts you to the SDAs?
As someone who has visited many different varieties of churches, people are generally polite if not outright friendly when you're a visitor. If you're just there to respectfully observe and learn, I'm sure SDAs wouldn't mind.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
I met a guy who attended a weekly bible study as a means to help him live a better life. You know, to make better choices and to be able to cope with the stresses of life. In other words, he was not very interested in doctrines as outlined in their statement of faith.
The guy invited me to attend the bible study with him. I agreed. After several meetings it became known that I was not a Trinitarian.
Would you believe it if I told you that as soon as the leader of the study group found out that I was not trinitarian he called in "bouncers" to try and intimidate me from attending further studies? It's a true story.
Iymus
Active Member
not within commute to my knowledge and if any not very publicized.
perhaps influenced by a more positive frequency worshiping on that day. I like the overall format of their ministry and how they present the information.
Very true. I like how the elder and youth blend in cohesively with SDA.
I have in the past and might return to poke my head in.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Let's say that Deu 6:4 is speaking of the Father alone. If it is, then it suggests to believe otherwise is to be without knowledge of God.
Knowledge is good, but what is it without obedience?
And what is obedience without knowledge?
Iymus
Active Member
emphasis on correct application of knowledge through understanding and hearing.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Pro 15:10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
according to NT Wisdom
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Not they are but he is. Not diligently seek them but seek him.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
--------------------------------
Hearing, Listening, Obeying, Understanding : Shama
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:4 Hear,H8085 O Israel:H3478 The LORDH3068 our GodH430 is oneH259 LORD:H3068
H8085
8085 shama` shaw-mah' a primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively, to tell, etc.):--X attentively, call (gather) together, X carefully, X certainly, consent, consider, be content, declare, X diligently, discern, give ear, (cause to, let, make to) hear(-ken, tell), X indeed, listen, make (a) noise, (be) obedient, obey, perceive, (make a) proclaim(-ation), publish, regard, report, shew (forth), (make a) sound, X surely, tell, understand, whosoever (heareth), witness.
Sources
Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Search Results
H8085 - shama` - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
-----------------------------
OT says Lord God specifically is our God.
NT says passively Lord God our God is our Father only along with being greater than his only begotten son our lord.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Pro 15:10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
according to NT Wisdom
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Not they are but he is. Not diligently seek them but seek him.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
--------------------------------
Hearing, Listening, Obeying, Understanding : Shama
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:4 Hear,H8085 O Israel:H3478 The LORDH3068 our GodH430 is oneH259 LORD:H3068
H8085
8085 shama` shaw-mah' a primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively, to tell, etc.):--X attentively, call (gather) together, X carefully, X certainly, consent, consider, be content, declare, X diligently, discern, give ear, (cause to, let, make to) hear(-ken, tell), X indeed, listen, make (a) noise, (be) obedient, obey, perceive, (make a) proclaim(-ation), publish, regard, report, shew (forth), (make a) sound, X surely, tell, understand, whosoever (heareth), witness.
Sources
Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Search Results
H8085 - shama` - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)
-----------------------------
OT says Lord God specifically is our God.
NT says passively Lord God our God is our Father only along with being greater than his only begotten son our lord.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Iymus
Active Member
Not surprising at all. From observations there are at least two spirits not allowed to be tried in the church one of which is the trinitarian spirit. It cannot be tested because it will be relegated to mystery and occult without any living or complete faith.
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Examining the Faith of the Son he never did his own will or work and even said if he is not doing the works of his God and Father then believe him not.
Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Luk 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Ah, now I understand....the reason why you are what I call “a Lone Ranger”.....someone who is looking to fit God into the mould that they have created for him.....but everywhere they go, the teachings of whatever group is examined, has failed to fit their match.....if that is the case, then they will never find God. We have to adjust our thinking to fit his mould, because he will never alter to fit ours.
It is not a doctrine, but a belief based on what the Bible itself says. There is a lot of scripture that suggests that Jesus has many roles and many names reflecting the role that he is playing at any given time. Only two angels are said to be the commanders of the angelic armies....Michael and Jesus. Technically speaking, the man Jesus no longer exists. When he returned to heaven, he was given a new name because his circumstances had changed and he received a reward for faithfully completing his mission. (Philippians 2:5-11; Revelation 3:12)
The Bible never once says that Jesus is Almighty God.....the scriptures indicate that his role as the “Logos” was as God’s spokesman. (One who speaks for God) We believe that Jesus as Michael, played a large role in God’s purpose from the beginning......from creation right up to today as he is preparing us for his return as judge, and in command of his army as executioners in God’s final judgment on Satan, his demons, and all who have willingly been misled by them. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9)
Can you prove scripturally that Jesus is not Michael in another role? I’d like to examine that evidence.
When do we claim to be infallible? If you don’t want to study the Bible with JW’s then don’t. We are in a period of judgment, just like the days of Noah, Jesus said. (Matthew 24:37-39) There was one means of salvation and it took Noah and his family decades of hard work to build it. There were not many arks....just one. If you were not on that ark, you perished.
Did the people of Noah’s day get an opportunity to get a seat on that vessel? Peter called Noah “a preacher of righteousness”, (2 Peter 3:5, 9) which means that he preached to the people to warn them about God’s intentions, but no one listened. Did God know that Noah’s warning would fall on deaf ears? He probably did, but he gave the people warning and an opportunity to change their behavior.....he is doing the same today...that gives us no excuse. If you ignore a warning, you accept responsibility for your own choices.
God is having ‘the good news of his Kingdom’ declared in all the earth before he brings this wicked world to its foretold “end”, giving all people an opportunity to get to know him and to align themselves with his purpose....the problem is, that it’s “good news” only for those who hear and act on that message. Conversely it is bad news for those who don’t. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 7:13-14)
Waiting for God to conform to their chosen beliefs will not end well for anyone. If we don’t conform to his teachings, stumbling over issues that we don’t want to accept, or denying things that the Bible makes clear, what do you suppose will result? We are all choosing our own destiny by the decisions we make now....and time is running out.....the dominoes are already falling.....don’t you see end coming? So many people do now....those who didn’t believe it before. Decisions have to be made before the door of opportunity closes.
It wasn’t Noah who closed the door of the ark....
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
The Scripture NEVER calls Jesus Michael. None of his apostles or disciples ever referred to him as Michael. The JW's cherry-pick a few verses and then claim that Jesus is Michael. They won't even admit that they might be wrong.
Anyone who has studied the O.T. could see that the angel of the LORD is called both LORD and God. So, if the Angel of the LORD was Michael (whom I suspect it was), then Jesus, as Michael was called LORD (YHVH) and God (Elohim).