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and so.....you assume the situation was only a test of obedience?
ah.....so the problem was more cerebral?
and Abraham is tested to his reason
more than his heart
then why does the old story bother you?No.
The correct answer should have been available to both his head and heart, so failing one there was the other. He failed on both counts.
OK. You seem to be grandstanding about, "No one can know it's God telling you to do it." I think I have a way to bring down that argument.
First of all, Abraham had seen a miracle when his wife was 90 years old and conceived the child in the first place.
He had seen many miracles which, given not only their supernatural nature but their meaning, he would have to be strongly motivated to obey.
He was promised his seed would be as the dirt on all the beaches or the stars in the sky and that all the world would be blessed through his seed... another thing to make him seriously consider it.
Lastly, it was symbolic of God sacrificing His Son Jesus Christ. If Abraham understood this, he very well could have known 100% what he was doing. That was a Universal sacrifice just like Abraham's promise was for Abraham's influence to be Universal.
then why does the old story bother you?
are you assuming Abraham is closer to God than you?
and then your desire is to knock him down a notch
I might assume.....we meet the ProphetsThe story doesn't bother me, though some of the uses its put to do.
I'm not assuming Abraham even existed let alone is closer to God to me, though if he did exist and even roughly matched his description then I would easily agree that he was much closer to God than I. Yet he should have said, 'No.'
I have no desire to knock anyone down a peg or two. Why would you even speculate such an odd motive?
I might assume.....we meet the Prophets
any of them
all of them
face to face......would you still stand your ground?
to say to his face?......you failed
I understand how you are looking at the situation.Abraham should have said No, because he is always going to have more immediate and sure warrant for believing that sacrificing your child is wrong than he is going to have warrant for believing the deity claimant commanding him to do such an abomination is an omni-attributed God with an unspecified morally sufficient reason who is also not just testing his response with the intention he says No.
Ie:
A)Likelihood that murdering your own child is wrong - very high
B) Likelihood the person telling you to kill your kid is God - not as high as A
C) Likelihood that if it is God then He testing your morality with the expectation you say No - higher than B
Do you see the connection?
ask... If God appointed you executioner of those judged as deserving of death, would you take that role?
I understand.Unfortunately not because the analogy makes a false equivalence.
The moral dilemma facing Abraham was murdering his child as an act of worship without explanation. If superman asked me to sacrifice my child to him, I'd say no. I would always trust my moral instinct that ritually killing children is wrong over any request to 'just trust me.'
So you would, if you were 100% sure it was God, you are sure the case has been judged in all fairness, and the evidence was conclusive that the one judged, was guilty, of heinous crimes?Depends upon the circumstances. Depends upon how sure I was it was God. Depends on who those judged were and whether or not the request seemed reasonable. Probably not just on a say-so, no. I'd certainly ask for the justification. If I thought the evidence too flimsy, the justifaction unreasonable, or the judged too innocent, I wouldn't do it, no.
I believe the opposite
if you were 100% sure it was God, you are sure the case has been judged in all fairness, and the evidence was conclusive that the one judged, was guilty, of heinous crimes?
You can believe whatever you wish....that is why we have free will.....but all our choices have consequences....Abraham's...yours...and mine. We know how Abraham's ended up.....yours and mine are a wait and see.
Christianity is not multiple choice......not the one Jesus taught anyway....
I don't think belief is obedient to our wills like that. Can I just choose to believe that 2+2=5? I don't think I can. Can you?
These two I certainly have, not being prophets.or have you scratched off...Jesus.....Muhammad?
A benevolent and just / moral god would not ask such a thing and be pleased if the subject obbeyed.
/QUOTE]
God did more than just ask Abraham to offer his son (a sacrifice which God did not accept BTW)
He also exiled, enslaved and killed millions of Jews.
We know this happened and we know the bible said it would happen - what then is your definition
of benevolence and justice?.
How is the history of Jews rejecting the Messiah in the same boat/historical fact a supernatural entity telling Abraham to sacrifice his child as evidence for his obedience to his god?
Wars happened, people were sacrificed, Jews still reject the messish.
But how is god involved in all this history?