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Does having religious beliefs make a person more moral than someone who is an atheist

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?
One could argue that being moral out of fear of punishment or hope for reward is not actually being moral.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
True, there are plenty of immoral scientists. There are plenty of immoral religious people too. The military people who actually use these weapons of mass destruction claim to be good Christians. Hitler himself said there is no place in the Nazi party for non-believers.

I see it as a question of moral foundations. Moral atheists tend to have a deep seated, internalized morality. Moral religious tend to have a more superficial, pre-packaged morality.

Atheist morality is principled; religious morality relies more on an external, divinely commanded rule book.
Atheist morality is deep-seated, and founded on principles. Religious morality is an easily dislodged veneer, born of tribal pastoralists and imperfectly fitted to current situations.
 
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osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I am not religious yet I hold to the sacredness of all life. Certainly I can't be the only one who does this. There must be outliers to this study.

Granted people have the potential to make their lives cheap and worthless and damaging to others. But I hold that people could choose to make their lives worthy too.

Perhaps it's a numbers issue. Everyone has options to fill their lives with whatsoever they wish for themselves.

Every imaginable thing exists I'm willing to bet. How would I know otherwise?

If somebody needs a higher reason to be good and moral chances are they are not very moral to begin with.

Because God exists I choose to be moral, otherwise forget it. That sounds very immoral.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

That's a very specious reasonning. Many scientists who worked on weapons of mass death were also religious. Oppenheimer, the lead scientist working on the Manhattan Project, was a deist with a strong interests in Eastern religions, especially hinduism. Other weapons manufacturer of ages past were also religious. The most devastating weapons ever created were created under the justification that those weapons would be so powerful and deadly they would put a quicker end to wars and reduce suffering overall. It was the justification behind the creation of the first machine-guns and the Atomic bomb itself. In a sense, those weapons were created with a care for peace and the preservation of life in the grand scheme of things. This might have been misguided, but those weapons were not created with a desire for bloodlust and more wars. Your understanding of those events and the moral question raised by war seems rather childish.

On the other side of the coin, religious creed most often don't oppose the killing of enemies in the context of a war and some faith will actively encourage and sanction combat against infidels. Islam and Christianity are perhapse the most famous in that regard, but religious sanction to wage wars against enemies are common place in every region of the world and almost every creed. Religious prohibition against violence is most often understood as a prohibition for interpersonnal violence, not violence between States, nations or creeds.

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

Again that is specious since it's not unique to religious belief or a characteristic common to all religious beliefs in the firs place. The opposite is also true, religious conviction might drive people to design the most deadly of all weapons either out of sense of humanity as a way to reduce the risk of war or end them more quickly; out of a sense of self preservation should their religious community be specifically targetted; out of a sense of religious obligation if their religious leader or deity has sanctionned war against a particular enemy.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?

Because it's all we got and frankly it can be a gloriously pleasant and fun thing.
 
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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?

Some studies seem to suggest they are just as moral. For any instance where one might see a lack of morals in any non-believers, we have a similar case where the religious often seem to lack appropriate morals when they are just accepting a rather different moral code - like not accepting homosexuality or in discriminating against females because they have a particular view (or their religion has) of what females are and what roles they should have. Perhaps these two actually affect more people too than any individual action or belief.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?
I suppose one could ask the question as to what's the specific difference that stands out between religious and secular morality?

If you ask me, religious folks do not corner the market in that regard because nothing stands out for one to think otherwise.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?
Nope, only a small percentage of scientists are engineering weapons of mass destruction and as others have pointed out, there is no guarantee they do not hold supernatural beliefs.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
There is very little evidence that religious people are more moral than non-religious.
I think I am correct in saying that there are more religious people (as a percentage) in prison than non-religious.
Atheists don't fly planes into buildings; atheists don't murder abortion doctors; most wars are started and fought by religious people
Wasn't it Dawkins who said something like, "There are good people and bad people but only religion can make good people do bad things"
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
There is very little evidence that religious people are more moral than non-religious.
I think I am correct in saying that there are more religious people (as a percentage) in prison than non-religious.
Atheists don't fly planes into buildings; atheists don't murder abortion doctors; most wars are started and fought by religious people
Wasn't it Dawkins who said something like, "There are good people and bad people but only religion can make good people do bad things"
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and I like to add: "or ideology.".
 

Galateasdream

Active Member
A lot here is going to depend upon what people believe is moral: if someone thinks sex before marriage is immoral then that paints quite a different religious/irreligious picture than, say, believing that homophobia is immoral.

I'm not convinced that religion (any?) or the lack of it makes people overall more/less moral.

But I think religion does do two things: a) change ones moral beliefs (some things become moral/immoral that were not before), and b) encourage people to more extremes.

B) there is most impactful, I think. Religion can rescue the addict from addiction, set up hospitals and homeless shelters, inspire great acts of charity or self-sacrifice; but it can similarly inspire great acts of barbarism, terror, violence and hatred. It's like religion turns things up a few notches - whether for good or ill; it's an amplifier.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I reverence life because it does have the potential for good. Because good lives happen despite religion or non religion.

I reverence life because I think a lot of evil is reversible with the correct punishment and education.

I do not reverence an absolute evil condition where there are crimes against humanity. After a few endless ions of death and punishment for these perhaps they will be changed. But I take no chances with that. The death penalty is sufficient for human purposes.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
..Hitler himself said there is no place in the Nazi party for non-believers....

I agree that there are many immoral people, but saying “…there is no place in the Nazi party for non-believers....” doesn’t make anyone Christian. Christian meant originally a disciple of Jesus. And a disciple of Jesus is a person who remains in the teachings of Jesus, which include the idea “love your enemy”.

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

Atheists don’t follow Jesus, so it is more likely they do some unloving things.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?
There are religions which order to kill the infidels.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I heard atheists argue atheists are just as moral as theists. But I am not sure this is true in general. Many scientists work on weapons designed to destroy humanity. Scientists are mostly atheists, and many scientists are engineering weapons of mass death. Then can I conclude there something inherently missing from the way atheists believe?

It seems to me someone could use their religious beliefs as a way of seeing working on weapons of mass death as being immoral, and therefore, a person with religious beliefs might not create such evil weapons in the first place because of the potential consequences as held by the religious beliefs.

If nothing is sacred then why have any reverence for life?

NO,
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Scientists are mostly atheists...

When one starts with a faulty premise, one ends with a faulty conclusion.

A 2009 poll conducted by Pew Research shows 51% of scientists believe in either God or a universal spirit/higher power.

upload_2020-1-26_7-17-9.png


Additionally, only 17% identify as atheists.

upload_2020-1-26_7-19-20.png


Scientists and Belief
 
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