Audie
Veteran Member
He can do what he likes in ig city.
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Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation
- Thread starter 74x12
- Start date
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Yep. I am done.
Audie
Veteran Member
It is fun to jump up and down and
argue, toss in some snark.
But there is being abusive too,
and I won’t stick around for that.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I never claimed that there was no God.
Then you are still wrong for the same reasons. I did not change my argument, I tried to make your error clearer to you.
Then you just admitted that you are wrong since I never said that I believe that there is no God. And you seem to be having trouble understanding the Oxford Dictionary. You just quoted it again and it still refutes your claim. Perhaps English is not your first language? That may explain your inability to understand and your rather strange use of a dictionary for a debate. That is not the move that a native English speaker would make.
Aren't you are at all curious to find out why you are wrong?
I lack a belief in God. That seems to be an idea that you cannot grasp. All I can do at this point is correct your errors. Please note, the Oxford dictionary is not the ultimate authority on English. It might be in England but that is only a small part of the English speaking world today. And even if it was the Oxford English dictionary disagrees with you. If you understood English you would see that.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why do you think that an atheist cannot have a working term for evil? I have found that many theists do not understand morals. Yet most of them have far better morals than are found in their Bible.
And I do not think that you understand what evolution can and cannot do. A lot more than the "law of the jungle" arises when one realizes that evolution deals with populations and not individuals.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Yes you did.
No you tried to change the story about your gumball machine where the same reply I gave you the first time still would still apply.
Nonsense! Now your making things up which is sad on your behalf. It seems you are confused and do not know what you believe. I asked you in another thread before this one directly if you believe in God and you said you did not believe in God. You seem to be changing your story every time you are asked.
You are free to believe as you wish. Seems everyone is right in their own eyes. If I was wrong in anything I have shared here you would have been able to show it by now. Although in your view there is no way you could be in error now is there.
Well that is not true. You keep changing your story not me so it is hard to know now what you believe. They are your words not mine. Did you forget you already told me in another thread you do not beleive in God? Did you change your mind? Or do you mean that you do not believe in God but you believe in the existence of God? That would make a lot of sense now wouldn't it
.Your also forgetting I posted you not my definition of atheism but the definition of the Oxford dictionary which is that atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. You now are simply playing on words and avoiding answering my questions to you. Anyhow it is up to you what you believe and do.
You are free to believe as you wish. I believe we all answer only to God come judgement day.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Where provide a quote and a link.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
I should not have to chase up your own claims. It seems you do not even know what you believe. Anyhow, ok no problems....
Woops...
Your welcome
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Like I said English is not your first language. You failed. This is what you said:Ok no problems....
Woops...
Your welcome
"Your claim is that there is no God. "
Not believing in God is not claiming that there is no God. That you do not understand this may also explain how the Oxford dictionary definition refutes your claim.
By the way, I never changed my story. I restated it in an attempt to get you to understand.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Goodness - No comment. I will let others follow the conversation . I just like watching you try to put out the fires you seem to be making for yourself by trying to change your stories everytime you get caught out.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Goodness - No comment. I will let others follow the conversation . I just like watching you try to put out the fires you seem to be making for yourself by trying to change your stories everytime you get caught out.
You have that backwards.
Why do you have such a hard time understanding that not believing in something is not the same as saying that it does not exist? When one makes such a statement one prejudices oneself. For example you probably believe the myths of Genesis due to your beliefs. A rational thinker can easily see that they are false.
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74x12
Well-Known Member
I agree with you in this case. Clearly it would be wrong not to save your daughter. There is a lot of gray area involved. The scriptures aren't meant to be a strict law code. For example Jesus said about the sabbath "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath". By that He meant that people should observe the Sabbath(this was before the new Testament) but they could break it; if it was necessary. He even gave some examples. Such as they would lift a sheep out of a hole on the sabbath because the sheep was stuck in the hole. That was work, but it would be wrong not to save the sheep or make it suffer needlessly. Therefore, we shouldn't think that God wants us to be harmed by the Laws He gives. So Jesus argued it was not wrong to heal the infirm on the sabbath day.
So all just laws are made for man(for mankind's benefit); man was not made for laws. And that's how society should view it's laws. I wouldn't consider the person you describe to even be a thief.
Thanda
Well-Known Member
Well sort of. The point of understanding scripture is not so you can go out and argue with others about it. The purpose of scripture is to bring each individual who reads is closer to God. So yes even if one does come to a "true" understanding of scripture it will not suddenly make his arguments convincing to another person.
Jesus himself could not convince most of the Jews about his teachings. Most people didn't believe his apostles. Most people didn't believe, Moses, Abraham, John the Baptist or any number of religious teachers.
Spiritual conviction cannot be forced on anyone no matter how great the teacher is. That is the power of moral agency/free will.
So it is a rather pointless (though sometimes fun) exercise to argue with people about meaning of any scripture.
The key verses to focus on pertain to Jesus coming like a thief in the night.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
Jesus says in His final sermon
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:36
So Jesus advises
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matthew 24:42-44
What does it mean to watch? Jesus gives a great example of what it means NOT to watch:
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Matthew 24:48-50
The consequences of such heedlessness?
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24:51
So who, Christ asks is the blessed Servant?
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Matthew 24:45-46
I believe it means being attentive to our spiritual lives daily to the extent living a coherent and moral life becomes our central concern.
The problem for the JWs is they have been making specific claims about when Christ will return despite clear scriptures that indicate no one knows except the Father. So from 1877 to at least 1989 the watchtower magazine in front of a worldwide audience has been making specific claims that haven’t eventuated. Perhaps after over 120 years of clear failure when it comes to making predictions, finally the JW have decided to avoid providing any specific information. Some organisations are slow learners and lack the capacity to comprehend the obvious. For example when Jesus said no one knows the day or the hour except the father, He really meant it.
So given the JW organisation has demonstrated an inability to understand this key scripture that is central to its narrative let alone put it into practice, it begs the question what else have they got wrong? When it comes to prophecy the answer is just about everything IMHO.
There certainly has been a heightened sense of expectation when it comes to the Return of Christ that reached a peak in the nineteenth century not surprisingly when both our faith communities were founded along with the Seventh Day Adventists, the LDS Church, the Ahmadiyya Muslims and others.
Its clear there have been plenty who have claimed to be the Return of Christ including Bahá’u’lláh since the eighteenth century.
List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia
Expect the list to grow longer as time passes, Why? Because after two thousand years there remains a steady stream of those who would claim to be the Jewish Messiah.
List of Jewish messiah claimants - Wikipedia
In fact sometimes the expectations about the Return of Christ have been so intense people have disposed of all their possessions. Do you know about the Great Disappointment?
The Great Disappointment in the Millerite movement was the reaction that followed Baptistpreacher William Miller's proclamations that Jesus Christ would return to the Earth by 1844, what he called the Advent. His study of the Daniel 8prophecy during the Second Great Awakening led him to the conclusion that Daniel's "cleansing of the sanctuary" was cleansing of the world from sin when Christ would come, and he and many others prepared, but October 22, 1844, came and they were disappointed.
These events paved the way for the Adventists who formed the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They contended that what had happened on October 22 was not Jesus' return, as Miller had thought, but the start of Jesus' final work of atonement, the cleansing in the heavenly sanctuary, leading up to the Second Coming.
Great Disappointment - Wikipedia
Sound familiar? A prophecy that didn’t come to pass so they had to invent or concoct something else that no could disprove.
So any fool can wave their arms in the air and say the end is near and Christ is coming. Plenty have been doing exactly that for the last two hundred years. Of course the key difference between the JWs and the Baha’is isn’t whether or not we follow Christ. We both believe we do. The Key difference is something else, something that would fall on deaf ears if I mentioned it, much like the words of Noah in His day. The wise do not speak until they obtain a hearing.
Audie
Veteran Member
Like lo and many another, our hero has no argument unless
he makes up something so ridiculous he can savage it with ease.
Audie
Veteran Member
Samael_Khan
Goosebender
Describe how a person would know that God has revealed the truth to them considering that many people in the world with contrary religious viewpoints claim that God has revealed the truth to them?Well maybe there is a way.But the world wouldn't receive or believe it. So there is no way for the world to know. Only God can know and those God reveals it to. The rest of the world will be in confusion. Many questions. Many theories and arguments but not the knowledge of the truth.
And what if you started believing the Quran? Then you would have to admit it was a miracle for you to believe.
Also, many people with contrary biblical views, which other Christians believe are heretical, believe in the Bible. So how can just believing in the bible be a miracle? If I believe the Bible I wouldn't consider it a miracle, because my reason for believing it wouldn't be a reason that could easily be applied to other books just because I believed in them.The Bible is a book that makes claims. I would have to prove that those claims are true conclusively using outside evidence, which would eliminate the need for faith, and the claims would be fact.
I do agree that if God exists then it is possible that only God can reveal the truth to people. But if he is only showing it to a few then he is showing favouritism and is being unfair if his not revealing the truth to others causes them to get punished for not believing in him. Also, because of his favouritism he is causing confusion and it is very possible that he will be causing those he revealed the truth to to doubt the truth because of lack of objective evidence.
And yes, I am skeptical, which I personally find as being more honest with myself. Being honest makes me happy. I am not saying that believers are being dishonest though. This just applies to me just in case someone misconstrues my meaning.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I asked if not being an entomologist is a hobby of yours.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
It is not my hobby, it is my profession.