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Atheism doesn't exist?:)

TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Heyo said:
It's like them threatening to get their big brother. It would be disturbing if they had one and he'd come. But as I know that their big brother is only imagined it's pathetic at max.
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No, I don't agree. On the face of it, you are correct off course.

It's the implied stuff that makes it disturbing.
They adhere to a doctrine according to which I deserve eternal punishment.


Regardless of their doctrine being a fantasy, I think it's disturbing that they adhere to a worldview within which they feel like I deserve eternal punishment.
Consider the psychological or social implications of this. How can I be friends with such people?

Luckily, in practice, many, if not most, theists live their lives in ways inconsistent with such doctrines.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
Atheism is the name for unbelief in gods. If belief and unbelief mean the same to you, then perhaps.

Incidentally, I neither believe nor disbelieve in gods, as in saying that they do or do not exist. I am agnostic have no opinion there, but am an atheist nevertheless.
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Unbelief, like disbelief and lacking belief, is about belief.

It begins with a belief. Then for those who do not hold the belief, we say of them that they are lacking in belief, and for those who are not believing the belief, we say that they are unbelieving, and for those who dismiss the belief we say they are disbelieving. The belief stands as a statement throughout, so it's never not about the belief.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
BilliardsBall said:
Because it is childish to hate people who adhere to a text.
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You just changed "animosity" into "hate".

I shouldn't have to explain why that isn't fair / honest.
I don't "hate" theists.

Mature Christians, for example, love even fundie Muslims who seek our deaths in jihad!
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That's just stupid imo.

Because it is silly to not see the problem on its face, we don't just think YOU deserve Hell, we think WE deserve it too, and plead grace and the blood of the Savior for you.
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That doesn't make any difference to the principle of the matter. It's still insulting and disturbing.

Because it is childish to "have animosity" to people who offer you free gifts.
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I've never received any gifts from bible thumpers.
And if by "gift" you mean the religion itself, I'ld call that a poisoned gift and as such, not "free" at all. It in fact comes at a very big cost.

Because it is childish to hate people because of what they believe
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1. I don't hate theists. well, not in general anyway

2. beliefs inform actions. certain beliefs are extremely harmfull and/or inform reprehensible acts / behaviour. Not to go all Godwin on you, but the holocaust was the result of harmfull beliefs. I'm not the one who's hatefull. It's the doctrine, the beliefs, that are hatefull. I don't see what the problem is with standing up to and exposing harmfull beliefs. In fact, I'ld say it's a moral duty to do so.


3. and yet, your religion teaches that eternal punishment awaits for those that believe the wrong thing.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
No, I don't agree. On the face of it, you are correct off course.

It's the implied stuff that makes it disturbing.
They adhere to a doctrine according to which I deserve eternal punishment.


Regardless of their doctrine being a fantasy, I think it's disturbing that they adhere to a worldview within which they feel like I deserve eternal punishment.
Consider the psychological or social implications of this. How can I be friends with such people?

Luckily, in practice, many, if not most, theists live their lives in ways inconsistent with such doctrines.
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Unlike most atheists/agnostics I never believed in a hell and never took those talking about it serious. But I have heard from deconverted people that they still feel threatened. So, yes there is a psychological aspect and there is an immoral aspect as well.
My response, and the response I advise, is to not get victimized and instead laugh them off stage.
 
Darkforbid

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
Heyo said:
Unlike most atheists/agnostics I never believed in a hell and never took those talking about it serious. But I have heard from deconverted people that they still feel threatened. So, yes there is a psychological aspect and there is an immoral aspect as well.
My response, and the response I advise, is to not get victimized and instead laugh them off stage.
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atheists/agnostics?
 
Rabbi Daniel

Rabbi Daniel

Member
Revoltingest said:
One's education seldom has any bearing on the issue.
But it could shed light on how someone could doubt or
even deny the existence of atheists or atheism.
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It was a catchy title. I didn't speak about atheists, but atheism. Even after that I didn't attack people, but challanged arguments. I think I was respectful, and I didn't always receive that respect, back ( I am not talking about you, of course)
 
Rabbi Daniel

Rabbi Daniel

Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
The animosity is directed at you personally, and not for being one of "God's people," but for being hateful to atheists. They don't like you either, but not for being a theist. For being hateful to atheists.

You fired the first shot with your passive-aggressive comment, "atheists friends here will assault your thesis because they HAVE to, it's in their nature." Who's assaulting whom here?

Now you're complaining when people show you the same contempt that you've shown them, like an armed robber running to the police complaining about would-be victim returning fire, but you do it hiding behind your god. You're here to offend atheists, then claim that their negative reaction to you is unprovoked and undeserved

And apparently it is impossible for you to understand the very simple concept that atheists don't believe in gods, including "God."

Here's your assignment: Try to conceive of that. Try real hard. Think hard - "Atheists don't believe in gods, so I probably should stop posting as if I can't grasp that simple concept."



Very hard to have an intelligent philosophical discussion with somebody unaware of the subject. This idea of philosophical doubt - doubt understood but not felt - is philosophy 101, Descartes.



You probably want to stop using the word stupid to describe arguments you can't understand. It's unbecoming and points back to you.

Did you study any philosophy in rabbinical school, or was it all theology?
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And it didn't prevent Descartes from being a believer.
 
Rabbi Daniel

Rabbi Daniel

Member
BTW, in general, it could be more constructive to bring your own arguments, instead of taking mine, and using it against me. Be creative.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Heyo said:
Unlike most atheists/agnostics I never believed in a hell and never took those talking about it serious. But I have heard from deconverted people that they still feel threatened. So, yes there is a psychological aspect and there is an immoral aspect as well.
My response, and the response I advise, is to not get victimized and instead laugh them off stage.
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It's not that I feel threatened by imaginary torture chambers...

It's rather the principle of the matter.
They idea that they think / believe that I am apparantly "so rotten to the core" that I apparantly deserve eternal punishment.

How can I not take that personal, when you think about it?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Rabbi Daniel said:
It was a catchy title. I didn't speak about atheists, but atheism.
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As I see it, if atheism doesn't exist, it follows that atheists don't exist.
So your distinction between them appears moot.
Even after that I didn't attack people, but challanged arguments. I think I was respectful, and I didn't always receive that respect, back ( I am not talking about you, of course)
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I didn't feel attacked at all.
(I'm secure in my existence.)
It's an amusing idea.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
BilliardsBall said:
Huh? God's people tried to kill your children? Whether you or your children have a disability, Christians are pro life. What are you speaking about?
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Have you actually read the bible? Christianity teaches genocide, murder, slavery, rape... Pro life what?

I am speaking about real life and fact, maybe thats what is confusing you.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Darkforbid said:
Like I said, just working with the fragments of information you've posted.

So how do we get from a alleged incident opposite a church to:

'Of course i do, they tried to kill my children.

They drove me from the church i loved.

Did their god belief try to kill my children? Did their god belief mock my disability? Sure the bible has him as a genocidal maniac who condones rape, slavery and theft but in real life was it their god belief Or was it Christians?'
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You can always search deeper for the more complete story

A much more productive idea than making sillt guesses then saying to yourself "yeah, thats what must have happened"
 
Darkforbid

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
Have you actually read the bible? Christianity teaches genocide, murder, slavery, rape... Pro life what?

I am speaking about real life and fact, maybe thats what is confusing you.
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Really like atheist leaders have never slaughtered massive numbers of their own population
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Darkforbid said:
Really like atheist leaders have never slaughtered massive numbers of their own population
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Humans are inherently deadly towards each other, independent
of religious beliefs. However, there are differences. Atheism has
no scripture commanding the deaths of others. Can you imagine
us singing a song entitled "Onward Atheist Soldiers"?
Atheists who are murderous evil misanthropes get there by their
own devices.
 
Darkforbid

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
Humans are inherently deadly towards each other, independent
of religious beliefs. However, there are differences. Atheism has
no scripture commanding the deaths of others. Can you imagine
us singing a song entitled "Onward Atheist Soldiers"?
Atheists who are murderous evil misanthropes get there by their
own devices.
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I totally agree, dude
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
Rabbi Daniel said:
Thank you :)
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I may have a totally skewed idea of rabbis. I have never met one (that I know of) and all the stories are anecdotal or fictional. But all those writers hold their rabbis in high regard and depict them as very wise men (which is, as I've been told, the meaning of rabbi: wise man). Your OP and your arguments haven't met that (unrealistic?) high ideal (yet).
 
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