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WHY are still muslıms sleeping?

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
The entire region isn't in turmoil..

Well... I guess it depends on what you value. If you value modern human rights, science, arts, literature and so on, then I'll stand by my claim.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Well... I guess it depends on what you value. If you value modern human rights, science, arts, literature and so on, then I'll stand by my claim.
Turmoil is the wrong word. Plenty of Middle Eastern countries are quite stable. But you are right about human rights, if not about the rest.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Israel is the reason the region is so unstable. Compare that region prior to Israel's illegal occupation and look at it after. The reason Saudi wont stand up to Israel is fear, fear that Al Saud family will lose power over the country

There is a longer history that is involved in the Middle East. The tribalism of Islam, Judaism, and by the way Christianity is rooted in a long history including the Crusades and Western colonialism to cut up the Middle East to suit Western interests,. There is long history of the Jews being expelled from their homeland, and than of course moving in to reclaim it. The Middle East has long been a Battle ground for tribal dominance going back to years recorded in the Torah.

I do not approve of the history of the formation of the State of Israel on a militant basis, but it is a fact of life that reflects history that the Jews moved and staked their traditional claim of their homeland, just as the tribal turf war has been taken place for thousands of years.

One thing that has not been brought up and is an elephant in the room, and that is the Islam of Saudi Arabia is among the most radical militant fundamentalist divisions of Islam.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
That's quite a bizarre claim. One of the first things that occurred in Iraq and Libya after we toppled their governments and wrecked their countries, is that they were opened to exploitation by Western corporations. It's all about profit. That is the new colonialism and it's not so different from the old one.

There were seven foreign oil companies operating in Libya before the civil war.

Iraq was crippled by two decades of war and sanctions before we invaded. Remember the Dual Containment Policy?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
There is a longer history that is involved in the Middle East. The tribalism of Islam, Judaism, and by the way Christianity is rooted in a long history including the Crusades and Western colonialism to cut up the Middle East to suit Western interests,. There is long history of the Jews being expelled from their homeland, and than of course moving in to reclaim it. The Middle East has long been a Battle ground for tribal dominance going back to years recorded in the Torah.

I do not approve of the history of the formation of the State of Israel on a militant basis, but it is a fact of life that reflects history that the Jews moved and staked their traditional claim of their homeland, just as the tribal turf war has been taken place for thousands of years.

One thing that has not been brought up and is an elephant in the room, and that is the Islam of Saudi Arabia is among the most radical militant fundamentalist divisions of Islam.

You obviously don't know anything about Saudi Arabia. The Wahhabis are the opposite of militant.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
You obviously don't know anything about Saudi Arabia. The Wahhabis are the opposite of militant.

I disagree: Wahhabism - Wikipedia

Wahhabism (Arabic: الوهابية‎, al-Wahhābiya(h)) is an Islamic doctrine and religious movement founded by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab.[a] It has been variously described as "ultraconservative", "far-right"[1] "austere",[2] "fundamentalist",[3] or "puritan (ical)";[4][5] as an Islamic "reform movement" to restore "pure monotheistic worship" (tawhid) by devotees;[6] and as a "deviant sectarian movement",[6] "vile sect"[7] and a distortion of Islam by its detractors.[2][8] The term Wahhabi(sm) is often used polemically and adherents commonly reject its use, preferring to be called Salafi or muwahhid,[9][10][11] claiming to emphasize the principle of tawhid[12] (the "uniqueness" and "unity" of God)[13] or monotheism, dismissing other Muslims as practising shirk (idolatry).[14] It follows the theology of Ibn Taymiyyah and the Hanbali school of jurisprudence, although Hanbali leaders renounced ibn Abd al-Wahhab's views.[5]

Wahhabism is named after an eighteenth-century preacher and activist, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703–1792).[15] He started a reform movement in the remote, sparsely populated region of Najd,[16] advocating a purging of such widespread Sunni practices as the veneration of saints and the visiting of their tombs and shrines, that were practiced all over the Islamic world, but which he considered idolatrous impurities and innovations in Islam (bid'ah).[17][13] Eventually he formed a pact with a local leader, Muhammad bin Saud, offering political obedience and promising that protection and propagation of the Wahhabi movement meant "power and glory" and rule of "lands and men".[18]
 

frbnsn

Member
Nobody is stealing anything and there is no colonialism. The oil and gas belong to the nation states of the Middle East, and is sold by them at market prices.

Now, you may argue that the rulers of these states are siphoning off the wealth of their people for their own gain, but that is another issue.

Some of them are even using it to export a horrible variant of islam to the West, where it leads to cultural discord and terrorism. That is also another issue.

It is about time people in the Middle East stopped blaming everyone but themselves for this mess.
Dear exchemist,
then why do USA involve affairs in the Middle East countries like Iraq, Syria...?
Is USA genderma of the world?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Dear exchemist,
then why do USA involve affairs in the Middle East countries like Iraq, Syria...?
Is USA genderma of the world?
Yes. That is what goes, inevitably, with being the most powerful nation. However one can question how wisely this power has been used.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
God bless you and may Muslims stop killing each other and the western states stop stealing their oil.

It seems to me that middle eastern countries are simply selling their oil to the west.

Whenever you are ready to give evidence for this alledged theft...


May the oil and natural gas of the middle east fall to the hands of the people who will use it most wisely.

Actually, I'ld rather say:

"May the oil and natural gass industry world wide be shut down asap and replaced by clean energy"

It's my hypothesis, btw, that a complete halt to using fossil fuels for energy will, in the long run, be the stepping stone for the muslim world to enter the modern age.

Because it's thanks to petro dollars that the ruling elites in the middle east can maintain their iron fist power.
That power and wealth will quickly fade away when the oil wells become worthless due to no more customers.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It seems to me that middle eastern countries are simply selling their oil to the west.

Whenever you are ready to give evidence for this alledged theft...




Actually, I'ld rather say:

"May the oil and natural gass industry world wide be shut down asap and replaced by clean energy"

It's my hypothesis, btw, that a complete halt to using fossil fuels for energy will, in the long run, be the stepping stone for the muslim world to enter the modern age.

Because it's thanks to petro dollars that the ruling elites in the middle east can maintain their iron fist power.
That power and wealth will quickly fade away when the oil wells become worthless due to no more customers.
Yes, it may well be that oil in many of these countries creates a sort of resource curse.
Resource curse - Wikipedia
 

sooda

Veteran Member
It seems to me that middle eastern countries are simply selling their oil to the west.

Whenever you are ready to give evidence for this alledged theft...




Actually, I'ld rather say:

"May the oil and natural gass industry world wide be shut down asap and replaced by clean energy"

It's my hypothesis, btw, that a complete halt to using fossil fuels for energy will, in the long run, be the stepping stone for the muslim world to enter the modern age.

Because it's thanks to petro dollars that the ruling elites in the middle east can maintain their iron fist power.
That power and wealth will quickly fade away when the oil wells become worthless due to no more customers.

Saudi Arabia has another 100 years of oil and gas... and has been developing sophisticated solar applications since 1982.

KSA diverts more and more oil directly to downstream manufacturing in Yanbu and Jubail.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Why are the western states staring at the oil and natural gas of the Middle East?
Isn't colonialism obvious theft?
Muslims in vain clash with each other, thieves continue to steal!
Shouldn't they be unity against thieves?

Hey, I have a really good idea. All of you guys keep all of
your oil in the ground. Dont sell a drop.
See how it turns out for you.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
The Arab world was sleepy and apolitical until the end of the Ottoman Empire .. and nationalism has grown out of the problem of Palestine.

Sad how events control the ME peoples, rather than the people controlling events... The latter involves civility.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
You clearly have NO idea what is going on in this world if you truly think that statement holds any weight. All you have to do is look at the middle east before the illegal Israeli occupation and after. Please show me how the middle east became better when those Zionist terrorist got there


Ah, illegal occupation.

Why dont you tell us about one place on planet earth
that was not taken by force from those who were there
before.


It sure is not where you live. You have zero moral high
ground to talk from.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I know. KSA has been funding studies to reduce emissions at schools like Sanford and Caltex for 2 decades.

Sounds like you are back into your KSA defense mode.

Let's not pretend as if the royal sauds don't sit on a pile of petro-cash, which they weild around for the purpose of having and holding on to iron fist power.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Ah, illegal occupation.

Why dont you tell us about one place on planet earth
that was not taken by force from those who were there
before.


It sure is not where you live. You have zero moral high
ground to talk from.

Nevertheless, I certainly agree that Israel seriously misbehaves and is guilty of all sorts of reprehensible crimes.

On the other hand, I get how this is a problem for Palestinians and their development.
But the thing is, in just about any discussion about any islamic country in the middle east, at some point you'll get the "but israel..." defense.
That is something I don't get at all.

I don't see how political elites in countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia trampling on the human rights of their own citizens, can be blamed on whatever Israel is doing 3000 miles away.
Yet sooner or later, Israel or the US or "the west" in general will be pulled into the conversation for no apparant reason.
 
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