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The Actual Problem With Gay Marriages?

It it...?


  • Total voters
    29

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
:):):)

Good question

We need to listen to God word who says(whoever repels away from my guidance, would suffer a hard living)

A very rich person can suffer this type of living while a very poor person can live in happiness and vice versa
Ah, that explains why theists are all the time causing problems with gay-marriage, it's Gods fault...
Theists take it upon themselves to interfere since god doesn't.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ah, that explains why theists are all the time causing problems with gay-marriage, it's Gods fault...
Theists take it upon themselves to interfere since god doesn't.
Well someone has to do something. It is not as if their God was omnipotent or something . . . :confused:. Oops, let me rethink that.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Well someone has to do something. It is not as if their God was omnipotent or something . . . :confused:. Oops, let me rethink that.
Seems to me if it bothers their all powerful god as much as they claim it does, then their all powerful god would do something about it.
Though I love when they come back with, "my all powerful god sent me to deal with it" because they fail to see just how incompetent it makes their all powerful god look.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
For some, marriage has to do with showing commitment to a loved one. How sad that you don't know this.
This model is insufficient. After all, we are committed to our children, yet we are certainly not married to them.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
That not true, Shi`a Islam was invented more than 30 years after the death of Islam prophet Muhammed who when died explained every single thing about Islam rituals and interpersonal deals. After the death of the fourth Kaliph Ali the Shi`a doctrine start to crystallize. Muhammed says: whoever invent a fab in our religion, he does not belong to us.

In relative terms, 30 years is nothing. All I was pointing out is that Islam behaves just like most other religions, in that any initial teaching is often questioned, reinterpreted, etc., and results in splits or factions - and often causing frictions and different beliefs as to behaviour. We would hardly have some countries where Islam is dominant executing people for things and which is not done in other Islamic countries. I'm sure I don't need to remind you, but this below looks very similar to most other religious belief systems in how the nature of religious belief itself tends to do such:

(From Islam - Wikipedia)
 

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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Hi There
Do you think our world is ruled by common unbiased values. What do you call some goverments support a coup leader like Hifter in Libya and supplies him with weapons and logistics while antagonizing a leagally elected and acknowledged goverments? Other exaple is the military general in Egypt (Sessi). On what bases this is done. Is this international justice?
This is a jungle, the strongest would eat the weakest. Interests of bully guys is the secret? Human rights when violated by an alley no problem, they keep silent but if violated by an enemy, wars are launched. No ethics under secularism. For the same reasons we are unable to have stable demcratic rule in the middle east. France, Italy, Egypt and the Gulf are supporting a power kidnaper in Libya and perpetuating a civil war there. Now Sudan revolted and destroyed a long lived dictatorship, but Sudan sill under American beseige although so many poor people are unable to find easily one poor meal a day to tap on hunger bangs. A lot of plots are manuvered to keep the region under unrest my dear. Take Syria as another example, Why the Russian are siding with a killer like Basshar Elasad?
The advent of the Massaiha is a divinely promissed fact in scriptures. He would spread real justice all over after all this disaaray. This is part of my believe.. Let us wait and see.
No for war, yes for peace.

Nobody said that all, or any for that matter, secular democracies are perfect.

But it's quite remarkable how you insist on blaming everything on externals and refuse to see the very real problems that exist in many middle eastern societies.




I note you also didn't answer a single one of my questions.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So what exactly is the problem?

Well, there's theories:

-On is to ignore that there is a problem and to be pro-gay marriages. But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like. Which means I'll skip to the meat of it:
- Awhile back, the Episcopal church voted to split over gay marriage. They became Anglican and Episcopalian. Then Methodists voted against, but wound up being forced to split anyway. Let's read Genesis, with of course those offensive words like 'man' and 'woman' changed to person.
"For this reason a person shall leave their father and mother and be united to their wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together let not man separate. " It's not relevant who is the husband and who is the wife (but from previous threads, you'll note that I do not believe in two parties working or two parties raising children, one cannot work in terms of the child, the other fails economically). What is relevant is the attempt to divide the church. God has married the church, united it, and people should not be voting to split.
-There's also the fact that this whole thing smacks of government intervention, specifically a secular system trying to impose Obama era rules on a public who would rather go to church to worship.
-Oh yeah and there's also the classic arguments that it's calling something sinful morally good, or a gateway drug to other odd behavior, or that it ignores the actual meaning of marriage (which is not for couples but for families, though I could contend this last one would be fine if gays could adopt more easily). But Ibthink these are secondary to the two real issues.
The real issue is whether bigoted ignorance is ever going to mess up loving couple's lives ever again.

Best to leave loving couple's alone, eh?
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
So what exactly is the problem?.

There can ever and only be one way that a gay marriage becomes a problem for a straight person? Would be if the "straight" person was, in fact, also gay.

The only way gay marriages can ever affect straight marriages? Would be if at least one of the partners in the "straight" marriage was gay.

All else is just Busibody-ism. In that, people believe it is their right to stick their busy-body noses into other people's bedrooms....!

"But-but-but-- public display of gay kissing really bothers me!"

So what? There is actually no law that protects you from being offended. Seriously. Get over yourself already.

99 of 100 men who complain about two men kissing?* Have no problem watching lesbian porn...

Why IS that?










* I just made that up-- I used the exact same method that creationists use to calculate the age of the earth. Just so you know...
 

ecco

Veteran Member
ecco:
I don't know where you get your morals but your fellow Muslims engaged in the deliberate destruction and theft of cultural heritage sites.

I don't know where you get your morals but your fellow Muslims engaged in genocide of Christian Yazidis.​

You need to support your allegations by evidence


If you are not aware that ISIL destroyed cultural heritage sites then you are in denial or ignorant of facts.

If you are not aware that ISIL engaged in genocide of Christian Yazidis then you are in denial or ignorant of facts.

Destruction of cultural heritage by ISIL - Wikipedia
Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL - Wikipedia

The articles contain extensive footnotes.

Do you still want to contradict my assertions?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
ICIS killed many folds of innocent Muslims than any other cults. ICIS was made by foreign intelligence to invade the area and to take trillions of dollars as oil, they represent no one other than those who made them. this is not a secret. Who is supplying ICIS by weapons? ask your self.

What is ICIS?


In my home country Christians have their churches every where. If you hear any thing other than this, that is untrue. I invite you to visit Sudan and see with your eyes. where is this oppression you are talking about? please don`t revert to fabrications.

I was not talking specifically about Sudan, especially since I did not know that that is your home.

Religion in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia
Islam is the state religion of Saudi Arabia and its law requires all citizens to be Muslims.[1] Public worship by adherents of religions other than Islam is forbidden.[2][3] Any non-Muslim attempting to acquire Saudi Arabian nationality must convert to Islam.[4] Furthermore, Islam is reduced to Wahhabism and even other strands within Sunnism are restricted.[5] Saudi Arabia has been criticized for its implementation of Islamic law and its human rights record.
I guess it also depends on what part of Sudan...
Freedom of religion in Sudan - Wikipedia
Although the 2005 Interim National Constitution (INC) provides for freedom of religion throughout the entire country of Sudan, the INC enshrines Shari'a as a source of legislation in the north[1] and the official laws and policies of the government favor Islam in that part of the country.

In Saudi Arabia, in all the Muslim countries, it is not allowed at all for a Muslim to change his religion," Information Minister Ahmed Bilal Osman said earlier.

— RTÉ News and Current Affairs[2]


As for the Hindu following the foot steps of evils that is silly. Muhammed says ( No one of you should be a pawn saying: I will follow the people, if they did good I do good and if they did bad I do bad. But control yourself, if people do good, do as they do. And if they do bad, avoid what they did)

Yeah. That's great advice. It's just that many Muslims believe beheading in the Name of Allah is a good thing.

Back to the subject of the thread. Is gay marriage allowed in any Islamic ruled country?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
This model is insufficient. After all, we are committed to our children, yet we are certainly not married to them.

I guess you are not aware that parents have legal obligations to their children. Those obligations are legally established in several ways...
  • The children are the result of intercourse between their parents.
  • The children are legally adopted.
The way to establish legal obligations between two adults is with contracts. Marriage is a legal contract. It confers rights and obligations that do not exist otherwise.

Now gays can enjoy those legal rights and obligations as well as straights.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
So what exactly is the problem?

Well, there's theories:

-On is to ignore that there is a problem and to be pro-gay marriages. But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like. Which means I'll skip to the meat of it:
- Awhile back, the Episcopal church voted to split over gay marriage. They became Anglican and Episcopalian. Then Methodists voted against, but wound up being forced to split anyway. Let's read Genesis, with of course those offensive words like 'man' and 'woman' changed to person.
"For this reason a person shall leave their father and mother and be united to their wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together let not man separate. " It's not relevant who is the husband and who is the wife (but from previous threads, you'll note that I do not believe in two parties working or two parties raising children, one cannot work in terms of the child, the other fails economically). What is relevant is the attempt to divide the church. God has married the church, united it, and people should not be voting to split.
-There's also the fact that this whole thing smacks of government intervention, specifically a secular system trying to impose Obama era rules on a public who would rather go to church to worship.
-Oh yeah and there's also the classic arguments that it's calling something sinful morally good, or a gateway drug to other odd behavior, or that it ignores the actual meaning of marriage (which is not for couples but for families, though I could contend this last one would be fine if gays could adopt more easily). But Ibthink these are secondary to the two real issues.

While I do agree with you that gay marriage is wrong, I would say that you must first prove your premise (God and morality) its tough using God as a standard when "preaching" to a bunch of atheists and agnostics. Had you said "gay marriage is wrong because (insert credible evidence then taken your stance)" or any other reason that could possibly be viewed as objective, I think you would make a valid argument, at least to those who are able to look at your case without getting too emotional. By valid, I am not saying that it is 100% true but, at least it would use some objective evidence to back you up, such as harms of gay sex, how homosexuality goes against evolution (another reason i do not believe in evolution) or anything else along those lines.
 

Baroodi

Active Member
What is ICIS?




I was not talking specifically about Sudan, especially since I did not know that that is your home.

Religion in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia
Islam is the state religion of Saudi Arabia and its law requires all citizens to be Muslims.[1] Public worship by adherents of religions other than Islam is forbidden.[2][3] Any non-Muslim attempting to acquire Saudi Arabian nationality must convert to Islam.[4] Furthermore, Islam is reduced to Wahhabism and even other strands within Sunnism are restricted.[5] Saudi Arabia has been criticized for its implementation of Islamic law and its human rights record.
I guess it also depends on what part of Sudan...
Freedom of religion in Sudan - Wikipedia
Although the 2005 Interim National Constitution (INC) provides for freedom of religion throughout the entire country of Sudan, the INC enshrines Shari'a as a source of legislation in the north[1] and the official laws and policies of the government favor Islam in that part of the country.

In Saudi Arabia, in all the Muslim countries, it is not allowed at all for a Muslim to change his religion," Information Minister Ahmed Bilal Osman said earlier.

— RTÉ News and Current Affairs[2]

ICIS are the fanatic extremists who occupied strangely half of Iraq and captivate the Yazidis. From where they com is still enigma? in my opinion they were made as a bet to invade in some way the area as it is happening now. Trump put it frank he wants trillion of dollars to compensate for his losses in this area and to compensate his alleys, namely UK




Yeah. That's great advice. It's just that many Muslims believe beheading in the Name of Allah is a good thing.

Back to the subject of the thread. Is gay marriage allowed in any Islamic ruled country?
 

Baroodi

Active Member
ecco:
I don't know where you get your morals but your fellow Muslims engaged in the deliberate destruction and theft of cultural heritage sites.

I don't know where you get your morals but your fellow Muslims engaged in genocide of Christian Yazidis.​




If you are not aware that ISIL destroyed cultural heritage sites then you are in denial or ignorant of facts.

If you are not aware that ISIL engaged in genocide of Christian Yazidis then you are in denial or ignorant of facts.

Destruction of cultural heritage by ISIL - Wikipedia
Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL - Wikipedia

The articles contain extensive footnotes.

Do you still want to contradict my assertions?

I think you are miscommunication here. What you label as ISIL I labelled as ICIS. ISIL represent only themselves. Islam does not relate to these fanatics. I told you they killed many folds of moderate Muslims than any other cult. If you count them as Muslims they represent only 0.0000001 of the total Muslims worlwide
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I think you are miscommunication here. What you label as ISIL I labelled as ICIS. ISIL represent only themselves. Islam does not relate to these fanatics. I told you they killed many folds of moderate Muslims than any other cult. If you count them as Muslims they represent only 0.0000001 of the total Muslims worlwide
In English that faction is called either "ISIS" or "ISIL". You may be using an acronym from another language.
 

Baroodi

Active Member
Nobody said that all, or any for that matter, secular democracies are perfect.

But it's quite remarkable how you insist on blaming everything on externals and refuse to see the very real problems that exist in many middle eastern societies.




I note you also didn't answer a single one of my questions.

You are true. I don`t deny that we have so many fragile twisty bricks at our unstable corners, but these are used as pawns unfortunately or tails through which others from outside lure them by many means. Do you know that Europe economy is prospering partly by the money stolen by African leaders as this money find save refuge if European banks (laundering of money laundering). Dirty plots are played as well to export in a twisty way African treasures to different parts of the world
mottoes like democracy, human rights and so on are only used as a two-edges weapon.
 

Baroodi

Active Member
In relative terms, 30 years is nothing. All I was pointing out is that Islam behaves just like most other religions, in that any initial teaching is often questioned, reinterpreted, etc., and results in splits or factions - and often causing frictions and different beliefs as to behaviour. We would hardly have some countries where Islam is dominant executing people for things and which is not done in other Islamic countries. I'm sure I don't need to remind you, but this below looks very similar to most other religious belief systems in how the nature of religious belief itself tends to do such:

(From Islam - Wikipedia)

That is right. opinions need to diverse but not to clash on that. Moderate followers need to resort to guidelines set by the first Islam leader to resolves disputes. Unfortunately clashes happen from fanatics who need to be tamed.
 
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