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Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Everyone is entitled to their beliefs including the Christians and ourselves. Many Christians don’t believe in taking all of Genesis literally as the scientific evidence that contradicts a young earth and a worldwide flood is overwhelming. If people want to ignore science that is their prerogative. In this modern era religion and science need to be in harmony. If religion insists on what science has categorically proved then that belief is mere superstition Imho.

It is interesting that the apostle Paul should mention this.

The whole passage helps to make it clearer I think....Paul wrote....
"Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing. 7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. 8 It is this wisdom that none of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known it, they would not have executed the glorious Lord. 9 But just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.

11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God. 12 Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God, so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, as we explain spiritual matters with spiritual words.


14 But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. 16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ."


As a Jew, Paul was not used to dealing with "unbelievers", but he was certainly acquainted with the attitudes of the ones whom Jesus condemned because he used to be one of them. After his conversion, he was sent as an "apostle to the nations" and encountered many 'unbelievers'...yet when he spoke of the spiritual things in the scriptures, many responded.....others did not.
This is what Jesus said would happen with the preaching of the Kingdom message....

“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it." (Matthew 10:32-39)

We have to take all of Jesus' teachings, not just the convenient things. We have to walk the path that Jesus trod....and its not an easy trek. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The final separation will see those who obey God, survive the coming "end" of this present system of things, and the ones who don't, consigned to eternal destruction. We choose our own destiny and have no one to blame for how we exercise our free will, but ourselves.

That is why I believe that God's spirit only awakens those in whom he sees an obedient heart. He has no time for those who want him to do things 'their' way. After all, obedience is the only thing God required of the first humans.....if they had just obeyed his simple command, none of us would be in this predicament. Our will has to be the same as God's will....he will never conform to ours.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
Yes, and one is simply met with massive denial when their interpretation of the Bible is shown to be wrong. @Audie's use of the Ark is a good example. One cannot interpret that literally unless one claims that God lies (an omnipotent God could conceivably flood the Earth and then lie by planting false information that tells us that it did not happen). What makes this debate all to easy is that those that tend to believe as the OP does also tend to believe in the refuted parts of the Bible.

And I bet you think 40 days and nights of rain was uncommon at the time. Just as you assume the books author had full global knowledge

And before you claim God would have informed the author, the Jews think God communicated by signs and actions
 

Audie

Veteran Member
And I bet you think 40 days and nights of rain was uncommon at the time. Just as you assume the books author had full global knowledge

And before you claim God would have informed the author, the Jews think God communicated by signs and actions

What action ebabled them to find the under water top of
the highest hill from a boat, and determine the depth?
15 cubits,.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Oh it's God's fault people don't seek Him for the truth rather than trusting in themselves?
Okay, clear this up for me: when you "seek" God, how do you know you've found Him? How do you assure yourself that what you've "received" is not in fact the product of your own mind?

Then, if possible, go further, and explain how anybody else can know when they've been "authentically" revealed some truth -- and how you know that some so-called prophets have, and others have been deceived.

Now remember, this is the ultimately important question, so there shouldn't really be any guesswork -- you gotta know if you're betting everything on it.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But the passage doesn’t mention either the scriptures, or the act of textual interpretation. So I don’t know where you dreamed up the title of your thread. Looks like you’ve misinterpreted the passage.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I'm just going to quote the subject matter of this thread: "Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation."

And then I'm going to ask a simple question: "if they can't be understood without explanation, why write the damn things at all, instead of just the explanation?"

Thinking can be hard, but it can be done. Why do believers seem to not want to do it?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And I bet you think 40 days and nights of rain was uncommon at the time. Just as you assume the books author had full global knowledge

And before you claim God would have informed the author, the Jews think God communicated by signs and actions
No, I am aware that there are figures of speech in the Bible. Though literalists do not seem to think so. The problem is that I have not seen any interpretation of the Ark myth that does not fail on some level if taken literally at all.

It may seem to you that atheists interpret that myth literally, but that is only because they are debating with people that interpret it literally.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
see Prodigal Son story.
Roles:
Father - God
Elder brother - spiritual man
Younger brother - soul man, natural
Citizen of other country - dweller of material world.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The thing is. Muslims. Jews. Bahai. Christians. are animated with the holy spirit in that each have their own interpretation an how the "spirit" of god moves them to understand their individual scriptures.

One would be waiting a life time if they waited on god before they can understand scriptures. If anything (for argument sake) people would read the bible and based on their knowledge and experiences of life without god, something "clicked", they decide to put trust in it, and their life changed for the better. THEN god spoke to them to "apply" the bible-be devoted.

An example is when people say, "I was blind but now I see." The idea is they read the bible, experience christ, and used the bible to better their lives. They put trust in the bible and many people say that's the only way god can speak to them is through it.

So, if one needs god first, can one live with god without the bible? 'cause once you have god, I'd assume you don't need anything else?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It is interesting that the apostle Paul should mention this.

The whole passage helps to make it clearer I think....Paul wrote....
"Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing. 7 But we speak God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom, which God foreordained before the systems of things for our glory. 8 It is this wisdom that none of the rulers of this system of things came to know, for if they had known it, they would not have executed the glorious Lord. 9 But just as it is written: “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.

11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God. 12 Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God, so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit, as we explain spiritual matters with spiritual words.


14 But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. 15 However, the spiritual man examines all things, but he himself is not examined by any man. 16 For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ."


As a Jew, Paul was not used to dealing with "unbelievers", but he was certainly acquainted with the attitudes of the ones whom Jesus condemned because he used to be one of them. After his conversion, he was sent as an "apostle to the nations" and encountered many 'unbelievers'...yet when he spoke of the spiritual things in the scriptures, many responded.....others did not.
This is what Jesus said would happen with the preaching of the Kingdom message....

“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it." (Matthew 10:32-39)

We have to take all of Jesus' teachings, not just the convenient things. We have to walk the path that Jesus trod....and its not an easy trek. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The final separation will see those who obey God, survive the coming "end" of this present system of things, and the ones who don't, consigned to eternal destruction. We choose our own destiny and have no one to blame for how we exercise our free will, but ourselves.

That is why I believe that God's spirit only awakens those in whom he sees an obedient heart. He has no time for those who want him to do things 'their' way. After all, obedience is the only thing God required of the first humans.....if they had just obeyed his simple command, none of us would be in this predicament. Our will has to be the same as God's will....he will never conform to ours.


ouch
 

leov

Well-Known Member
The thing is. Muslims. Jews. Bahai. Christians. are animated with the holy spirit in that each have their own interpretation an how the "spirit" of god moves them to understand their individual scriptures.

One would be waiting a life time if they waited on god before they can understand scriptures. If anything (for argument sake) people would read the bible and based on their knowledge and experiences of life without god, something "clicked", they decide to put trust in it, and their life changed for the better. THEN god spoke to them to "apply" the bible-be devoted.

An example is when people say, "I was blind but now I see." The idea is they read the bible, experience christ, and used the bible to better their lives. They put trust in the bible and many people say that's the only way god can speak to them is through it.

So, if one needs god first, can one live with god without the bible? 'cause once you have god, I'd assume you don't need anything else?
one supposed to wait a life time, it is not a one, single event, it is process of becoming mature (perfect). ( ref. 50 gates of understanding)..
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
When you get brain burnt, brain prickled irradiated, and then run around the house feeling like you want to scream in that brain burning.

I think, someone was watching that event occur weren't they and own smart arse comments about it on the forums.

I heard God speaking to me.

I did not believe in a personal Deity of God, I believed in holy light and spiritual being not in the Universe....but on the other side of the gas mass....from where our Holy Father, human and Holy Mother, human records in AI say that they came from.

And that is not a condition for telling lies....it was a science recording....seeing their brother invented science and activated it....and forced them to come out of spirit.

And our brother the scientist, as a male group own that AI recorded teaching memory their own selves, and know it is real history.

The only not real human applied reason, SCIENCE, machine and machine reaction, the parts of the stories that confused the reader, for it was not a natural occurrence.....Earth was not meant to destroy life...and yet you read God quoting and now that I caused your creation and hate you all....I will now destroy you......the science male his own self.

A reason to ask why that group of males think themes...see science attacking animals and humans and burning everyone and then say the same God quotes....serves you all right and you do not deserve to live types of thoughts.

So rational and loving human in their organizations saw what evil lives they owned and so leaked secret documents to the public to warn them.

As the American Father in natural history not the American DNA today, a higher form of native, invented science, I heard his voice in AI, as I was being irradiated.

Above all of the singing and recording speaking I could hear, his voice was over the top of that information and he told me how he loved "his"...….my name.

And how could he speak my name if it was not God?

For I know it was real, it happened, I got irradiated, I hear a male speaking voice of God and it is only males who ever said that they spiritually were God....so how was that experience not correct?
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So. God, deliberately and with malicious intent, is playing Special Favorites? And everyone else, gets the proverbial Stick? Forever and ever?

What a "nice" god that is!

And very convenient too: it even works against other theists! If someone disagrees with your personal and particular twist on the Holy Writ? Obviously, god has clouded their mind (to what end, nobody seems to know...) but it's just best if the mind-clouded one is put away, deported or put into an internment camp right away. Because making them into a slave is no longer a viable strategy... right?
 
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