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Baha’i community members: Baha’is spreading misunderstandings and misinformation about the community

Jim

Nets of Wonder
@Tony Bristow-Stagg i looked at the Web site of your national spiritual assembly, and it looks to me like they’re promoting everything that the House of Justice is promoting. Here are some things that I’m thinking of doing for unity between you and me:
- Trying to find friendly and helpful ways to respond to what you’re doing in these forums.
- Roleplaying, in this forum neighborhood, what the House of Justice is promoting for us to do in offline neighborhoods and villages.

From what I’ve read, it starts with training and spontaneous acts of service. Then people doing that more and more, and encouraging and supporting each other more and more. Then it goes through stages, with more and more complexity and organization. Then it expands into economic and social development, and participating in discussions that lead to decision making and ookicy making.
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Adrian, there is indeed and I know you will be very busy and the challenge is thena life and faith balance and finding time to sleep.

The centre is a great bounty, is it manned on a daily basis?

We have a storm happening, it is so good to get rain :)
That’s great news about the storm and water. I really hope there is some relief for Australians from these bush fires. I’ve heard also that the drought like conditions through much of Australia may be exacerbated somewhat by climate change. I really feel for my Australian cousins during these times. I have a sister in Queensland and another in Cairns.

The Baha’i Centre is not manned but we have a very well established Baha’i couple living about 5 minutes walk away. There is a substantial cost in regards work and money when it comes to maintaining a community centre. It relies on the generosity of the friends both with donations to the local fund and giving time to do cleaning or building work.

The local Hindu community are currently using the Centre for their devotions as well as the Interfaith Council. Who can and can’t use the Centre has been a much discussed item on the agenda of our Assembly.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg @adrian009 This is about some things I might want to do.
- Discuss with you how we might adapt the aims, purposes and principles in what the Universal House of Justice and your National Spiritual Assembly are promoting offline, to what we’re doing online.
- Learn to encourage and support what you’re doing online.
- Discuss with you possible ways of responding if we ever saw a Baha’i in these forums promoting everything that was being promoted in the campaign of internal opposition.
Go ahead.

It appears the main focus of Baha’i community activities is about community building in neighbourhoods through the core activities. I see the potential of developing a Baha’i hub in any neighbourhood. Those core activities don’t need much if any participation from Baha’is involved on online activities. If anything it can be somewhat of a distraction.

The main way online participation in a forum like this helps is to augment both charitable and socioeconomic projects I’m involved in. That began with volunteer work at a Christian Medical Centre and the need to better understand and engage constructively with conservative Christians. It has led to Interfaith Council participation and the need to better understand other faiths, particularly Islam.

My involvement in this forum has necessitated a better understanding of Hinduism too as a few Hindus on this forum have taken an interest in the Baha’i Faith, albeit from a critical perspective.

My wife’s family have Buddhist leanings so its about time I better understood Buddhism.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That’s great news about the storm and water. I really hope there is some relief for Australians from these bush fires. I’ve heard also that the drought like conditions through much of Australia may be exacerbated somewhat by climate change. I really feel for my Australian cousins during these times. I have a sister in Queensland and another in Cairns.

The Baha’i Centre is not manned but we have a very well established Baha’i couple living about 5 minutes walk away. There is a substantial cost in regards work and money when it comes to maintaining a community centre. It relies on the generosity of the friends both with donations to the local fund and giving time to do cleaning or building work.

The local Hindu community are currently using the Centre for their devotions as well as the Interfaith Council. Who can and can’t use the Centre has been a much discussed item on the agenda of our Assembly.

Cairns has some wonderful Baha'i and a very active community. They are 700km East of us. The Cairns and Tablelands area is a beautiful place.

Normanton is always looking for good doctors :D It is a seriously hard place to work for doctor's, they are kept very busy.

Yes a centre would be a difficult task to maintain, that is part of the bounty of having one, it takes sacrafice of self in many ways.

We had one in Normanton in the early 90's, but a centre has to be a community project and not one persons goal.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg i looked at the Web site of your national spiritual assembly, and it looks to me like they’re promoting everything that the House of Justice is promoting. Here are some things that I’m thinking of doing for unity between you and me:
- Trying to find friendly and helpful ways to respond to what you’re doing in these forums.
- Roleplaying, in this forum neighborhood, what the House of Justice is promoting for us to do in offline neighborhoods and villages.

From what I’ve read, it starts with training and spontaneous acts of service. Then people doing that more and more, and encouraging and supporting each other more and more. Then it goes through stages, with more and more complexity and organization. Then it expands into economic and social development, and participating in discussions that lead to decision making and ookicy making.

Jim I have to admit I cringe at the mention of role playing, never been able to grasp that concept.

On the other hand I contemplate the advice of Abdu'lbaha to Look at Him, Follow Him and be as He was.

I also have to say I have never considered that I had any set intent when I came to Forums, there was no other motivation but to talk to other like minded souls and share what I see the world needs.

The aim then turned out to be self improvement, as one sees the results of actions that were not based in wisdom.

Regards Tony
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
This is about some things I might want to do.
- Discuss with you how we might adapt the aims, purposes and principles in what the Universal House of Justice and your National Spiritual Assembly are promoting offline, to what we’re doing online.
- Learn to encourage and support what you’re doing online.
- Discuss with you possible ways of responding if we ever saw a Baha’i in these forums promoting everything that was being promoted in the campaign of internal opposition.
Go ahead.
Bahá’u’lláh says that His mission is to seize and possess people’s hearts. I think that learning to trust and follow the light of God in Bahá’u’lláh is the best thing that can happen to anyone, but I think there is more to it than that. I think that people learning to trust and follow the light of God in Bahá’u’lláh is also what the world needs most of all, to heal all its illnesses and for human progress.

I see God saying that He designed us to know Him and love Him, and to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization. I think that part of that advancement will be economic and social development with love for God, revolving around self-improvement and guided by spiritual values and principles. I see the community-building process that the House of Justice is promoting as a way for people, as part of learning to know and love God, to practice the kinds of spiritual growth and community service that are needed for that kind of economic and social development.

I see part of that as formal training in spiritual growth and community service. First we practice service to our own community, helping with the spiritual education and training of adults, junior youth and children. At later stages we bring the knowledge and skills that we learn from that into our collaboration with others in economic and social development.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
... to talk to other like minded souls and share what I see the world needs.

The aim then turned out to be self improvement, as one sees the results of actions that were not based in wisdom.
Thanks. That’s good for me to know. I especially like the idea of self improvement.

Do you think that what the world needs is Baha’i teachings? I think that what the world needs most of all is people learning to trust and follow Bahá’u’lláh and His Universal House of Justice.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
It appears the main focus of Baha’i community activities is about community building in neighbourhoods through the core activities.
Do you have some ideas about why the House of Justice is promoting that? How do you see it serving Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes?
The main way online participation in a forum like this helps is to augment both charitable and socioeconomic projects I’m involved in. That began with volunteer work at a Christian Medical Centre and the need to better understand and engage constructively with conservative Christians. It has led to Interfaith Council participation and the need to better understand other faiths, particularly Islam.

My involvement in this forum has necessitated a better understanding of Hinduism too as a few Hindus on this forum have taken an interest in the Baha’i Faith, albeit from a critical perspective.

My wife’s family have Buddhist leanings so its about time I better understood Buddhism.
Thanks. That helps.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Jim I have to admit I cringe at the mention of role playing, never been able to grasp that concept.
One example of what I mean by roleplaying is that I roleplay community service by doing origami outside where people walking by can see me doing it. Another example is that I roleplay devotional meetings with some atheist friends inviting them to my home for us to sing songs and read poetry together.
... share what I see the world needs.
Sometimes I see you sharing what you think Baha’is believe and what you think are Baha’i teachings. I would like for all Baha’is to be able to say what they think about Baha’i teachings, in Internet discussions, without other Baha’is saying or insinuating that they are being dishonest and treacherous. I think that Baha’is have been dishonest and treacherous sometimes in Internet discussions, but I think that if we have suspicions about anyone, we should not air them in public, because we could be wrong, and I think that behavior of Baha’is might be seriously undermining what we could be doing in Internet discussions. That’s one reason why I want to discuss how to respond to Baha’is promoting the same views that were being promoted in the campaign of internal opposition.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
@Tony Bristow-Stagg @adrian009 Now I’m seeing my interest in all this as being about the possibilities I see for what we could be doing in Internet discussions. I’m seeing what looks to me like blindness to those possibilities, and some behavior of Baha’is that is discouraging individual initiative, free thinking, free and open discussion between us, and more fruitful collaboration between us.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
@Tony Bristow-Stagg It looks and feels to me like your idea of Baha’i unity is for you to be able to say and do whatever you want to in Internet discussions, without any other Baha’i openly disagreeing with any of it, while you can openly disapprove as much as you want to of what another Baha’i is saying and doing. I might be misunderstanding you, but that’s how it looks to me. If that’s your idea of Baha’i unity, I will never submit to it.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
@adrian009 @Tony Bristow-Stagg I remember a message from the House of Justice, maybe more messages than one, encouraging us to make the best use of our possibilities on the Internet. There was also a Baha’i Information Agency website with some ideas and some guidance for that. There are various kinds of initiatives including blogs, websites, forums, and individual Baha’is promoting their personal ideas and interests in Internet discussions. I don’t know if there is any input from any Baha’i institutions for any of that. In Internet discussions I see blindness to some wonderful possibilities, and I see some behavior of Baha’is needlessly hiding the light from people and repelling them away from it, discouraging free thinking and free and open communication between Baha’is, and seriously undermining what we could be doing in Internet discussions.

Some of the adverse effects might be alleviated by us studying the guidance for Internet discussions again and again, and trying to practice it, I don’t think that alone will enable to combine our efforts anywhere nearly as fruitfully as they could be combined. For that to happen I think we need to find some ways to apply the wisdom, the knowledge and the skills from what the House of Justice is promoting offline, to what we do in Internet discussions.

i know that you might not be able to make any sense out of any of that, so I’m thinking of trying to draw a picture, finding things to do in these forums as examples or symbolic representations of what I’m thinking.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you think that what the world needs is Baha’i teachings? I think that what the world needs most of all is people learning to trust and follow Bahá’u’lláh and His Universal House of Justice.

Baha'u'llah has said "..He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them......The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded...."

So I would see that they need to accept the Counsels of the Most High.

I see that the Councils can be followed and a person may still not excepted Baha'u'llah, not the Universal House of Justice in the way I have. I see that will be the Lesser Peace path.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sometimes I see you sharing what you think Baha’is believe and what you think are Baha’i teachings. I would like for all Baha’is to be able to say what they think about Baha’i teachings, in Internet discussions, without other Baha’is saying or insinuating that they are being dishonest and treacherous. I think that Baha’is have been dishonest and treacherous sometimes in Internet discussions, but I think that if we have suspicions about anyone, we should not air them in public, because we could be wrong, and I think that behavior of Baha’is might be seriously undermining what we could be doing in Internet discussions. That’s one reason why I want to discuss how to respond to Baha’is promoting the same views that were being promoted in the campaign of internal opposition.

That appears to be a lot of personal reflections Jim and none of us have got it right, it is us all learning, the whole world as to how we should speak to each other and accept each other.

I will offer that I judge no person. I listen to what they say and balance that against what I have read and understood in the Baha'i Writings and what they are saying. In that way, I try to respond to what is being said and not the person.

That has been a journey and RF is a good place to learn.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Cairns has some wonderful Baha'i and a very active community. They are 700km East of us. The Cairns and Tablelands area is a beautiful place.

Normanton is always looking for good doctors :D It is a seriously hard place to work for doctor's, they are kept very busy.

Yes a centre would be a difficult task to maintain, that is part of the bounty of having one, it takes sacrafice of self in many ways.

We had one in Normanton in the early 90's, but a centre has to be a community project and not one persons goal.

Regards Tony

The get to provide for a rural community by drinking just 1 1/2 hours from my home. Last month I began travelling to a small rural town where I’m the only doctor on duty. Owaka had a GP for over 35 years but then she retired so the town brought her practice and now they rely on locum GPs such as myself coming from out of town. I head away Monday morning, stay overnight and return Tuesday evening. In that way I’m away from my family for less than 2 days. There are no Baha’is in the locality at all. I think being a Baha’i is about our inner life and seeing the many positive attributes in those we come across.

I’d love to work as a GP in Australia but it would be too disruptive for my family. It sounds great where you live. I suppose neither of us have too many of the kinds of conversations in real life as we do on this forum.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg It looks and feels to me like your idea of Baha’i unity is for you to be able to say and do whatever you want to in Internet discussions, without any other Baha’i openly disagreeing with any of it, while you can openly disapprove as much as you want to of what another Baha’i is saying and doing. I might be misunderstanding you, but that’s how it looks to me. If that’s your idea of Baha’i unity, I will never submit to it.

I wish you well and happy Jim. I will move on from these discussions. I will study for a while.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The get to provide for a rural community by drinking just 1 1/2 hours from my home. Last month I began travelling to a small rural town where I’m the only doctor on duty. Owaka had a GP for over 35 years but then she retired so the town brought her practice and now they rely on locum GPs such as myself coming from out of town. I head away Monday morning, stay overnight and return Tuesday evening. In that way I’m away from my family for less than 2 days. There are no Baha’is in the locality at all. I think being a Baha’i is about our inner life and seeing the many positive attributes in those we come across.

I’d love to work as a GP in Australia but it would be too disruptive for my family. It sounds great where you live. I suppose neither of us have too many of the kinds of conversations in real life as we do on this forum.

Well done, that is a productive service filled life and family is very important :)

I may get to visit NZ one day, do the train from North to South :)

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you have some ideas about why the House of Justice is promoting that? How do you see it serving Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes?

I understand that we can create a Baha’i communities wherever we are. In fact we’re already part the way there even if we don’t see it. However in changing our attitudes and behaviours we become active protagonists for the movement of communities as well as individuals. In doing so we are becoming better prepared for a time when significantly more people will enter our communities either as Baha’is or friends of our Faith.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Bahá’u’lláh says that His mission is to seize and possess people’s hearts. I think that learning to trust and follow the light of God in Bahá’u’lláh is the best thing that can happen to anyone, but I think there is more to it than that. I think that people learning to trust and follow the light of God in Bahá’u’lláh is also what the world needs most of all, to heal all its illnesses and for human progress.

I see God saying that He designed us to know Him and love Him, and to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization. I think that part of that advancement will be economic and social development with love for God, revolving around self-improvement and guided by spiritual values and principles. I see the community-building process that the House of Justice is promoting as a way for people, as part of learning to know and love God, to practice the kinds of spiritual growth and community service that are needed for that kind of economic and social development.

I see part of that as formal training in spiritual growth and community service. First we practice service to our own community, helping with the spiritual education and training of adults, junior youth and children. At later stages we bring the knowledge and skills that we learn from that into our collaboration with others in economic and social development.

That certainly captures some important aspects of what we’re about both as individuals and communities.
 
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