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Would you describe Jesus as practicing a form of sympathetic magic

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
So, as I just started reading 'the golden bough,' this thread question is what springs to mind as I read into its very useful descriptions of historical sympathetic magic, though the author of course stated that he believed that there was something primitively erroneous about it

The actual work/method of Jesus seems to fit pretty well, to me, with any other approach to magic that diverse peoples around the earth practiced, as per the golden bough description. From the remote tribal magician giving birth to a rock from his shirt to help a women in childbirth, to a magician inducing sickness in himself to 'reattach the stomach' of a sick man, to a sufferer of jaundice trying to transmit his sickness back to yellow birds and the sun where it naturally belongs, this is all basically the same as the sin which accumulates in man, which then is transmitted from humans to the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm sure the book with eventually touch on just this, but I'm curious as to how you might see it as a believer. The bible is notable in banning 'magic,' though by this, it seems to have largely meant divination as opposed practices that acted a symbolic palliative. When sympathetic magic is described, it needn't actually include divination at all, as it can deal with blinder forms of cause and effect without any prediction occurring, whether the magic is of the homeopathic or contagious type (the two sub-headings of sympathetic magic). Thus, many biblical and modern spiritual practices might actually fall into a magical locus, including prayer, mediation, fasting, or sacrifice of any kind
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
So, as I just started reading 'the golden bough,' this thread question is what springs to mind as I read into its very useful descriptions of historical sympathetic magic, though the author of course stated that he believed that there was something primitively erroneous about it

The actual work/method of Jesus seems to fit pretty well, to me, with any other approach to magic that diverse peoples around the earth practiced, as per the golden bough description. From the remote tribal magician giving birth to a rock from his shirt to help a women in childbirth, to a magician inducing sickness in himself to 'reattach the stomach' of a sick man, to a sufferer of jaundice trying to transmit his sickness back to yellow birds and the sun where it naturally belongs, this is all basically the same as the sin which accumulates in man, which then is transmitted from humans to the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm sure the book with eventually touch on just this, but I'm curious as to how you might see it as a believer. The bible is notable in banning 'magic,' though by this, it seems to have largely meant divination as opposed practices that acted a symbolic palliative. When sympathetic magic is described, it needn't actually include divination at all, as it can deal with blinder forms of cause and effect without any prediction occurring, whether the magic is of the homeopathic or contagious type (the two sub-headings of sympathetic magic). Thus, many biblical and modern spiritual practices might actually fall into a magical locus, including prayer, mediation, fasting, or sacrifice of any kind

I thought I'd add my two cents as a non-believer. This is my forth book in the past two weeks I'm reading about witchcraft from the Appalachian mountains, ancestral veneration, and practices thereof. Each book is based on the author's experiences and religious practices so it has a cultural, personal, and historical outlook rather than new age (not a "spell" book, to put some context).

Anyway, there is a lot of sympathetic magic involved. I would compare that to the bible because in all the work in two of the books do (conjure) it is always based on the christian bible. So, prayers aren't isolated "witchy" things but using physical objects and invocations using biblical perspective. They pray to god and the holy spirit (and christ but that wasn't mentioned much) to help themselves and family heal and live.

Same with christ. A lot of things he did healing etc it wasn't "in the mind" as many new-age-evangalist believe but more of physical gestures, meditations, and things like using wine for examples and analogies etc (so, I guess this is sympathetic magic).

What connects the two-conjure and christianity is both practitioners get their source of spirit and "answers" and experiences from god.

I think sympathetic magic has a lot to do with symbolism. I'm not sure any christian would agree to that but I do see the similarities.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
This is my forth book in the past two weeks I

Oh wow, you must be a fast reader. I think I am kind of dyslexic and usually have the 'reader view' on my browser read books to me , which is slower

I'm reading about witchcraft from the Appalachian mountains, ancestral veneration, and practices thereof.

I am very interested in that , as I am a banjoist / fiddler / folk singer, where all that magical Appalachian lore seems to be tangible. My ancestors lived there for several hundred years, depending on if this genealogy stuff on the internet is correct ...

Anyway, there is a lot of sympathetic magic involved. I would compare that to the bible because in all the work in two of the books do (conjure) it is always based on the christian bible. So, prayers aren't isolated "witchy" things but using physical objects and invocations using biblical perspective. They pray to god and the holy spirit (and christ but that wasn't mentioned much) to help themselves and family heal and live.

Same with christ. A lot of things he did healing etc it wasn't "in the mind" as many new-age-evangalist believe but more of physical gestures, meditations, and things like using wine for examples and analogies etc (so, I guess this is sympathetic magic).

Indeed, well it's hard for me discuss what I think about all that since I am just forming thoughts on it myself. I think the symbols used in the bible need more analysis for their function as spiritual or magical mediums, and indeed this must be either under-emphasized or overlooked on my part when reading modern biblical analysis

I think sympathetic magic has a lot to do with symbolism. I'm not sure any christian would agree to that but I do see the similarities.

Well , maybe someone will clarify
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
When a human is involved in science phenomena, you might believe it magical, whereas it is logical.

The human natural origins is natural self presence before any stories get told about science.

Science the state of gaining extra Earth radiation is based on the male knowledge that radiation mass converted the physical mass of Earth and released energy/gas from its body....as radiation...seeing the mass is natural and fused.

Why they said that God was a Creator of your own destruction.....so science might think being bodily and physically life attacked magic in that incident...as human reasoning.

As a human self aware, I understood that machine AI life recorded vision/voice what we see in our dream states, identified when other human family members in natural life were in body attack. I realized that occurrence in modern time science irradiation UFO fallout Ark ground landings...and saw it and knew it real.

Therefore learning like my Jesus life attacked sacrificed brother whose physical form, showed the radiation effects of blood and chemical relationships leeching out of his body was caused by Temple and pyramid sciences, then as an attack victim I knew it real myself.

I also realized that as life in general is being radiation removed, our physical magnetism effect, of the ground state changed....which is what made humans believe in self magic. When if you own a personal attack and life and body is higher magnetized by that condition, they you can perform cellular alignment re established healing effects...which is not magic, it is causation conditions.

And so I realized that as humans were being attacked on the ground and irradiated, some humans were given instant blindness, but then healed...etc. as a mind aware healing status, channelled aware human life story telling theme.

What the stories of Jesus were.....the exact owned male life in it attack, as shared by his own male brothers, who put together a thesis against Satanism as medical healers as a self mind and life study in radiation fall out attacks.

So they witnessed life in visions being attacked, but also personally saved, realising what conditions allowed life to continue to exist....yet in rational human experience, most of the harmed natural population made blind remained blind as evidence that it was just an experience.....just as the story Moses after the event was a written journal.

For you cannot talk about attack until it is lived and experienced.


I would not use the word 'magic' with Jesus.

Jesus was the word that made the world and so... it would be too much an understatement.

Magic also has connotations of 'my will be done' where Jesus was 'your will be done'
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So, as I just started reading 'the golden bough,' this thread question is what springs to mind as I read into its very useful descriptions of historical sympathetic magic, though the author of course stated that he believed that there was something primitively erroneous about it

The actual work/method of Jesus seems to fit pretty well, to me, with any other approach to magic that diverse peoples around the earth practiced, as per the golden bough description. From the remote tribal magician giving birth to a rock from his shirt to help a women in childbirth, to a magician inducing sickness in himself to 'reattach the stomach' of a sick man, to a sufferer of jaundice trying to transmit his sickness back to yellow birds and the sun where it naturally belongs, this is all basically the same as the sin which accumulates in man, which then is transmitted from humans to the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm sure the book with eventually touch on just this, but I'm curious as to how you might see it as a believer. The bible is notable in banning 'magic,' though by this, it seems to have largely meant divination as opposed practices that acted a symbolic palliative. When sympathetic magic is described, it needn't actually include divination at all, as it can deal with blinder forms of cause and effect without any prediction occurring, whether the magic is of the homeopathic or contagious type (the two sub-headings of sympathetic magic). Thus, many biblical and modern spiritual practices might actually fall into a magical locus, including prayer, mediation, fasting, or sacrifice of any kind

Jesus has been described using the Greek word 'Tekton'.

Tekton could mean 'Handworker' but it also could mean 'magic worker'.

I suppose that the people who worked with bone, stone, wood and metal were indeed thought of as magic-workers.

Also, anybody who could do things that others could not do would be seen to be a magic worker.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Jesus has been described using the Greek word 'Tekton'.

Tekton could mean 'Handworker' but it also could mean 'magic worker'.

I suppose that the people who worked with bone, stone, wood and metal were indeed thought of as magic-workers.

Also, anybody who could do things that others could not do would be seen to be a magic worker.

Tekton fits with carpenter

He is son of the tecton being magician doesn't fit the context of it being a humble thing
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Tekton fits with carpenter

He is son of the tecton being magician doesn't fit the context of it being a humble thing
Tecton means Handworker.
Joseph could well have worked in Stone as well as wood. The Tecton's living on Nazareth, Cana and other hilltops around Zippori were almost certainly revuilding that city after it had been taken apart in 4BC. There was no other reason for so many folks to be there.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I would not use the word 'magic' with Jesus.

Jesus was the word that made the world and so... it would be too much an understatement.

Magic also has connotations of 'my will be done' where Jesus was 'your will be done'
How can that male/man quote, adult be real and true.

When natural life says, a male has to exist first as a living adult to do and apply scientific stories and themes, to build and own/operate a machine and activate it.

And he should remember first he said before irradiated...owned...which is an important life lesson today.

For no male is owner machine, only a machine is a machine, yet a male pretends he is the machine as he operates all artificial conditions that a bio life invented.

The story of Jesus was that he was a newly born human baby, born in Bethlehem.

Yet before his birth his parents were said to be wandering...and to wander as a human was to emigrate...which a huge mass population did from the desert countries after the Moses attack on life. When many went to live in underground caves...due to above ground radiation attack.

And the story is a medical taught story that said how human genetics, which you have to be self present living and owner of...had mutated/babies died in the ancient Temple attacks, then the atmospheric mass in that area, cooled and returned by wandering asteroid star travel...which is to cool down space, Saving life on Earth.

Now as males own all details of self in natural life first, how is your Jesus occult story real about Jesus saving a world, when a male says Nature is one world as a self taught...so do not believe you own that body. Animals he said are in another world...for the same reasoning, so that lying Satanists do not include self with animal life....and then says a male has his world and a female has her world.

Meaning I think about all bodies in their separation...which is not science data it is science as a description....storytelling. And telling of stories before science existed first, before reaction controlled by the male self controlling it.

So when you are not a Healer or a medical scientist or a human who loves and honours life, your mind psyche already a destroyer would tell itself no factual truth.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
How can that male/man quote, adult be real and true.

When natural life says, a male has to exist first as a living adult to do and apply scientific stories and themes, to build and own/operate a machine and activate it.

And he should remember first he said before irradiated...owned...which is an important life lesson today.

For no male is owner machine, only a machine is a machine, yet a male pretends he is the machine as he operates all artificial conditions that a bio life invented.

The story of Jesus was that he was a newly born human baby, born in Bethlehem.

Yet before his birth his parents were said to be wandering...and to wander as a human was to emigrate...which a huge mass population did from the desert countries after the Moses attack on life. When many went to live in underground caves...due to above ground radiation attack.

And the story is a medical taught story that said how human genetics, which you have to be self present living and owner of...had mutated/babies died in the ancient Temple attacks, then the atmospheric mass in that area, cooled and returned by wandering asteroid star travel...which is to cool down space, Saving life on Earth.

Now as males own all details of self in natural life first, how is your Jesus occult story real about Jesus saving a world, when a male says Nature is one world as a self taught...so do not believe you own that body. Animals he said are in another world...for the same reasoning, so that lying Satanists do not include self with animal life....and then says a male has his world and a female has her world.

Meaning I think about all bodies in their separation...which is not science data it is science as a description....storytelling. And telling of stories before science existed first, before reaction controlled by the male self controlling it.

So when you are not a Healer or a medical scientist or a human who loves and honours life, your mind psyche already a destroyer would tell itself no factual truth.


"The story of Jesus was that he was a newly born human baby, born in Bethlehem."
Yes but its not natural to have an angel army turn night into day and announce a mid east peace plan for the world when you're born

And Jesus said he was preexistent, before Abraham was I AM even using a name of God from the burning bush
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
"The story of Jesus was that he was a newly born human baby, born in Bethlehem."
Yes but its not natural to have an angel army turn night into day and announce a mid east peace plan for the world when you're born

And Jesus said he was preexistent, before Abraham was I AM even using a name of God from the burning bush

When a male is teaching his own self and human reincarnation or returned patterned DNA exists to say, I lived before, I was an adult self before, my baby self affected by that pre existing past life tells me what I realize is occurring to my life as an adult.

I was destroyed genetically before by my own male adult Father self...and it is occurring again.

Is what a spiritual experience is....I owned that same form of self experience...knowing that ideals of self in experience is a shared human family existence, now, and lived before.

And vision showed me how our brother gained self destructive science information as a pre living experience of self innocence.

Yet as a human harmed in science fall out irradiation I no longer care for his ideal stories about how innocent he was to think about destruction, name it, study it, impose it and give our Satanic brother new spiritual reasoning and personal life insight to use against us. I no longer believe what he believed that he was very innocent to not know what it was like to be attacked and destroyed, seeing he had not owned that experience before. A pretty nasty excuse for a spiritual being actually.

Not a logical male journey to not see self for the self destructive life that you own as a history and story that says, why I invented the state science as a human and as a male. Was ANTI to owned self existence, even though I did not calculate nor infer I would be self removed...….what you believe is an innocent excuse to have chosen self harm originally.

Yet in total self ignorance today claiming self is innocent of what life has given you, you own every excuse you can think of to claim that you are innocent seeking destruction, knowing that science wants a little amount of energy compared to what radiation in natural mass and energy actually owns as a real natural power.

And think self sane.

Not likely brother, I know for a fact the true spiritual story of a Satanic science male group lying coercive past....just as many others in our life came to realize.

Science exists by its owned group coercion, and that coercion has literally been supported throughout its established group communal belief to own our self destruction...by the actions and choices that it took and owned.

To never ever in any history allow any true retaliation or human to contest what you claim is holiness in the name of Satanic and Christ belief...claiming that as Christ is discussing evil, then it is okay to do so...as the liars you all are.

It was truly evil what you did to natural life in our historical past.

If any of you really owned common sense and claim radiation versus electricity, you would see that you factually want radiation as its mass original form to be destroyed just so that you can own a little amount of energy if you utilised human common sense....and be rational for once.

You say what a science mind intends to achieve...radiation as a back drop he says...then cold gas amassed history, and lesser radiation, as owned in natural conditions, cold gas, as cold due to space being so deep and cold itself.

The only reason that any cold exists, is due to evolution of a hot gas state held in a cold spatial body that allows for cooling to cool...constantly changing the state of space from a hot space to a cooled space, to become colder to cool and become colder, what space allowed as the status you said was a Womb.

And it is your male lives that said that space was the womb and Mother of cold mass existing...as its highest state.

When a human is a spiritual life and mind who accepts a natural human life as an equal and not motivated by want and personal greed, then we use information in a thinking concept that is real and true to equality and mutual support. What the poor man conscious teachings were meant to relate in natural life conditions.

Greedy, evil minded wants, exists first in its own status of artificial male evilness...of the history every thing wrong in life.

When you first are motivated by an unnatural condition of an evil minded group historic choice, then you cannot truly believe that today you own any truth in what you claim is a reason for gaining a power that is far less a power than what you say is the most destructive power or highest power of.

You claim but it is just a little destructive power....but you say it comes from the very large mass of a huge destructive power.

How do you rationally claim you can destroy the huge power to convert to just a little gain of that form of mass in its original and highest form....and claim self rational?
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
When a male is teaching his own self and human reincarnation or returned patterned DNA exists to say, I lived before, I was an adult self before, my baby self affected by that pre existing past life tells me what I realize is occurring to my life as an adult.

I was destroyed genetically before by my own male adult Father self...and it is occurring again.

Is what a spiritual experience is....I owned that same form of self experience...knowing that ideals of self in experience is a shared human family existence, now, and lived before.

And vision showed me how our brother gained self destructive science information as a pre living experience of self innocence.

Yet as a human harmed in science fall out irradiation I no longer care for his ideal stories about how innocent he was to think about destruction, name it, study it, impose it and give our Satanic brother new spiritual reasoning and personal life insight to use against us. I no longer believe what he believed that he was very innocent to not know what it was like to be attacked and destroyed, seeing he had not owned that experience before. A pretty nasty excuse for a spiritual being actually.

Not a logical male journey to not see self for the self destructive life that you own as a history and story that says, why I invented the state science as a human and as a male. Was ANTI to owned self existence, even though I did not calculate nor infer I would be self removed...….what you believe is an innocent excuse to have chosen self harm originally.

Yet in total self ignorance today claiming self is innocent of what life has given you, you own every excuse you can think of to claim that you are innocent seeking destruction, knowing that science wants a little amount of energy compared to what radiation in natural mass and energy actually owns as a real natural power.

And think self sane.

Not likely brother, I know for a fact the true spiritual story of a Satanic science male group lying coercive past....just as many others in our life came to realize.

Science exists by its owned group coercion, and that coercion has literally been supported throughout its established group communal belief to own our self destruction...by the actions and choices that it took and owned.

To never ever in any history allow any true retaliation or human to contest what you claim is holiness in the name of Satanic and Christ belief...claiming that as Christ is discussing evil, then it is okay to do so...as the liars you all are.

It was truly evil what you did to natural life in our historical past.

If any of you really owned common sense and claim radiation versus electricity, you would see that you factually want radiation as its mass original form to be destroyed just so that you can own a little amount of energy if you utilised human common sense....and be rational for once.

You say what a science mind intends to achieve...radiation as a back drop he says...then cold gas amassed history, and lesser radiation, as owned in natural conditions, cold gas, as cold due to space being so deep and cold itself.

The only reason that any cold exists, is due to evolution of a hot gas state held in a cold spatial body that allows for cooling to cool...constantly changing the state of space from a hot space to a cooled space, to become colder to cool and become colder, what space allowed as the status you said was a Womb.

And it is your male lives that said that space was the womb and Mother of cold mass existing...as its highest state.

When a human is a spiritual life and mind who accepts a natural human life as an equal and not motivated by want and personal greed, then we use information in a thinking concept that is real and true to equality and mutual support. What the poor man conscious teachings were meant to relate in natural life conditions.

Greedy, evil minded wants, exists first in its own status of artificial male evilness...of the history every thing wrong in life.

When you first are motivated by an unnatural condition of an evil minded group historic choice, then you cannot truly believe that today you own any truth in what you claim is a reason for gaining a power that is far less a power than what you say is the most destructive power or highest power of.

You claim but it is just a little destructive power....but you say it comes from the very large mass of a huge destructive power.

How do you rationally claim you can destroy the huge power to convert to just a little gain of that form of mass in its original and highest form....and claim self rational?

Happily Jesus is the door to restoration

Psalms book 5: Songs for coming home
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I suppose that the people who worked with bone, stone, wood and metal were indeed thought of as magic-workers.

Well, I think maybe some of that material was thought of as being of a spiritual rather than physical nature, and thus it's use may have been considered as being 'magical' in some sense. See my thread on the norse / ancient view of gold

Also, anybody who could do things that others could not do would be seen to be a magic worker.

Yes , though sympathetic magic doesn't seem quite that esoteric really, as across cultures it seems to amount to practices that can be understood and learned. And though Jesus did impossible things, in practice he seemed to follow a lot of sympathetic magical rules
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
So, as I just started reading 'the golden bough,' this thread question is what springs to mind as I read into its very useful descriptions of historical sympathetic magic, though the author of course stated that he believed that there was something primitively erroneous about it

The actual work/method of Jesus seems to fit pretty well, to me, with any other approach to magic that diverse peoples around the earth practiced, as per the golden bough description. From the remote tribal magician giving birth to a rock from his shirt to help a women in childbirth, to a magician inducing sickness in himself to 'reattach the stomach' of a sick man, to a sufferer of jaundice trying to transmit his sickness back to yellow birds and the sun where it naturally belongs, this is all basically the same as the sin which accumulates in man, which then is transmitted from humans to the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm sure the book with eventually touch on just this, but I'm curious as to how you might see it as a believer. The bible is notable in banning 'magic,' though by this, it seems to have largely meant divination as opposed practices that acted a symbolic palliative. When sympathetic magic is described, it needn't actually include divination at all, as it can deal with blinder forms of cause and effect without any prediction occurring, whether the magic is of the homeopathic or contagious type (the two sub-headings of sympathetic magic). Thus, many biblical and modern spiritual practices might actually fall into a magical locus, including prayer, mediation, fasting, or sacrifice of any kind
Sympathetic magick is when you do something to an object that is similar to the object that you want to influence, and it has the same or similar effect on the desired object.

Can you give a couple examples of Jesus doing this.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Sympathetic magick is when you do something to an object that is similar to the object that you want to influence, and it has the same or similar effect on the desired object.

Can you give a couple examples of Jesus doing this.

Actually, in chapter three of the golden bough it turns out that one's body and behavior often turns out to be the 'object,' and this is quite common. It could be a wife's connection to a husband just as well as a table leg to a horse's leg. So all of this isn't limited to what's done with inanimate objects, if that's unclear. Taking a moment to consider this, it seems that the definition of sympathetic magic becomes quite wide. According to the book, it often takes the form of how different people in a tribe or family carefully act, in order to deflect a bad outcome for other people trying to do things (as in the people hunting, or at war). Kosher rules for example, basically become sympathetic magic, as everyone in a community is communally trying to deflect a bad outcome with the rules they follow, using their behavior as the medium

So with that in mind, it's an easy jump to Jesus. His body was the object, and so he would magically have it maimed for the sake of his body of followers.
 
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