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Hey New York State Lawmakers...Where's Your Head?

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Seems that a new law in the State of New York under the bail reform law that took effect Jan. 1, most non-violent felonies — including bank robberies carried out without a weapon — are no longer bail eligible, meaning no judge can order him held pending trial is making a mockery of the law.
Four time bank robber arrested and released and attempts to rob another bank.
https://nypost.com/2020/01/11/seria...h-no-bail-then-immediately-robs-another-bank/
While it sounds like a bad idea (which it might be),
there is an up side....people who can't afford bail
won't become taxpayer burdens in jail while
awaiting trial.
The bail system has also been a civil liberties
problem too...innocent people serving time cuz
they can't afford bail.
 
Last edited:

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Seems that a new law in the State of New York under the bail reform law that took effect Jan. 1, most non-violent felonies — including bank robberies carried out without a weapon — are no longer bail eligible, meaning no judge can order him held pending trial is making a mockery of the law.
Four time bank robber arrested and released and attempts to rob another bank.
https://nypost.com/2020/01/11/seria...h-no-bail-then-immediately-robs-another-bank/
That's life with the socialist peoples republic of New York.

Loss of individual freedom and liberty is the forte of the socialist Democrats and it's getting progressively worse each year that passes.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
While it sounds like a bad idea (which it might be),
there is an up side....people who can't afford bail
won't become taxpayer burdens in jail while
awaiting trial.
The bail system has also been a civil liberties
problem too...innocent people serving time cuz
they can't afford bail.
Yes, possibly; however how about leaving it up to the judge.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes, possibly; however how about leaving it up to the judge.
That has a problem of great individual variation from judge to judge.
It makes sense to have a uniform policy applied to all. But I can see
your point, ie, that individual cases might warrant differing from what
is standard. The process should allow for considering the occasional
exception.

Hey, we're disagreeing...why aren't you calling me names, & decrying
my stupidity? What's wrong with you!
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
I have not check all this out myself for validity but this does come from CBS New York

Here Are All The Crimes That Now Fall Under The Bail Reform Law:

  • 2nd degree Burglary of a residence
  • 2nd degree Burglary as a Hate Crime
  • 3rd degree Burglary of a commercial building
  • 3rd degree Burglary as a Hate Crime
  • 2nd degree Robbery aided by another person
  • 2nd degree Robbery as a Hate Crime
  • 3rd degree Robbery
  • Criminal sale of a controlled substance (multiple counts)
  • Using a child to commit a controlled substance crime
  • Criminal possession of a controlled substance (multiple counts)
  • Criminal sale of a controlled substance in or near a school
  • Criminal injection of a controlled substance into another person
  • Criminal sale of a controlled substance to a child
  • Criminal sale of a prescription for a controlled substance by a pharmacist
  • Criminal possession or creation of Methamphetamines
  • 3rd degree Assault
  • 3rd degree Assault as a Hate Crime
  • Reckless Assault of a child by a day care provider
  • Reckless Assault of a child
  • Stalking (multiple counts)
  • Stalking as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Vehicular Assault (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Vehicular Assault
  • Aggravated Assault on a child under 11 years-old
  • Aggravated Assault on a child under 11 years-old as a Hate Child
  • Menacing (multiple counts)
  • Menacing as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Reckless Endangerment (multiple counts)
  • Promoting a suicide attempt
  • 1st degree Stalking while committing a sex offense
  • Criminal Obstruction of Breathing
  • Criminally Negligent Homicide
  • 2nd degree Vehicular Manslaughter
  • Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter
  • 2nd degree Manslaughter
  • Unlawful Imprisonment (multiple counts)
  • Unlawful Imprisonment as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Labor Trafficking
  • Custodial Interference (multiple counts)
  • Substitution of children
  • Coercion (multiple counts)
  • Coercion as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Criminal Trespass (multiple counts)
  • Criminal Trespass as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Possession of burglar’s tools
  • Unlawful possession of a police scanner
  • Criminal Mischief (multiple counts)
  • Criminal Mischief as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Criminal Tampering (multiple counts)
  • Cemetery Desecration (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Cemetery Desecration (multiple counts)
  • Reckless Endangerment of property
  • Tampering with a consumer product (multiple counts)
  • Graffiti
  • Possession of Graffiti tools
  • 3rd degree Arson
  • 4th degree Arson
  • 5th degree Arson
  • 3rd degree Arson as a Hate Crime
  • 4th degree Arson as a Hate Crime
  • 5th degree Arson as a Hate Crime
  • Grand Larceny (multiple counts)
  • Grand Larceny at a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Grand Larceny of an ATM
  • Petit Larceny
  • Petit Larceny as a Hate Crime
  • Computer Tampering (multiple counts)
  • Computer Trespass
  • Unauthorized use of a computer
  • Unlawful duplication of computer materials (multiple counts)
  • Welfare Fraud (multiple counts)
  • Criminal use of a public benefits card (multiple counts)
  • Criminal possession of a public benefits card (multiple counts)
  • Unauthorized use of a vehicle (multiple counts)
  • Auto stripping (multiple counts)
  • Theft of services
  • Unauthorized use of a credit card
  • Jostling
  • Fraudulent Accosting
  • Criminal Possession of Stolen Property (multiple counts)
  • Forgery (multiple counts)
  • Criminal possession of a forged instrument (multiple counts)
  • Criminal possession of forgery devices
  • Criminal possession of a Vehicle ID Number
  • Forgery of a Vehicle ID Number
  • Falsifying business records (multiple counts)
  • Tampering with public records (multiple counts)
  • Offering a false instrument for filing (multiple counts)
  • Insurance Fraud (multiple counts)
  • Health insurance fraud (multiple counts)
  • Criminal diversion of prescription medications (multiple counts)
  • Commercial bribery (multiple counts)
  • Rent Gouging (multiple counts)
  • Residential mortgage fraud (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated identity theft (multiple counts)
  • Bribery (multiple counts)
  • Perjury (multiple counts)
  • Bail jumping (multiple counts)
  • Obstructing governmental administration (multiple counts)
  • Obstructing governmental administration with a self-defense spray device
  • Killing a Police Dog or Police Horse
  • Obstructing emergency medical services
  • Obstructing governmental services with a bomb
  • Escape (multiple counts)
  • Promoting prison contraband (multiple counts)
  • Resisting arrest
  • Hindering prosecution (multiple counts)
  • Making a false sworn statement
  • Bribing a witness
  • Receiving a bribe as a witness
  • Bribing a juror
  • Receiving a bribe as a juror
  • Providing a juror with a gratuity
  • Tampering with a juror (multiple counts)
  • Tampering with physical evidence
  • Compounding a crime
  • 1st degree Criminal Contempt – refusing to be sworn in as a witness
  • 2nd degree Criminal Contempt
  • ALL Gambling offenses
  • ALL Prostitution offenses
  • Providing indecent material in minors (multiple counts)
  • Riot (multiple counts)
  • Criminal Anarchy
  • Harassment (multiple counts)
  • Harassment as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Harassment (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Harassment as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Aggravated Harassment of an employee by an inmate
  • Criminal nuisance (multiple counts)
  • Falsely reporting a crime
  • Pointing a laser at an aircraft (multiple counts)
  • Harming a service animal (multiple counts)
  • Public lewdness
  • Illegal eavesdropping
  • Dissemination of unlawful surveillance (multiple counts)
  • Non-support of a child (multiple counts)
  • Endangering the welfare of a child
  • Assisting in female genital mutilation
  • Endangering the welfare of an incompetent or physically disabled person
  • Endangering the welfare of a vulnerable elderly person
  • Endangering the welfare of a disabled person (multiple counts)
  • Promoting an obscene sexual performance by a child
  • Possession of an obscene sexual performance by a child
  • Promoting a sexual performance by a child
  • Possessing a sexual performance by a child
  • 4th degree Criminal possession of a weapon
  • Criminal possession of a weapon on school grounds
  • Criminal possession of a firearm
  • 3rd degree Criminal possession of a weapon
  • Criminal purchase or disposal of a weapon
  • Unlawfully wearing a body vest
  • Unlawfully fleeing a police officer in a vehicle (multiple counts)
  • Enterprise corruption
  • Money Laundering (multiple counts)
  • Money Laundering in support of terrorism (multiple counts)
  • Corrupting the government (multiple counts)
  • Criminal solicitation (multiple counts)
  • Conspiracy (multiple counts)
  • Conspiracy as a Hate Crime (multiple counts)
  • Criminal facilitation (multiple counts)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That has a problem of great individual variation from judge to judge.
It makes sense to have a uniform policy applied to all. But I can see
your point, ie, that individual cases might warrant differing from what
is standard. The process should allow for considering the occasional
exception.

Hey, we're disagreeing...why aren't you calling me names, & decrying
my stupidity? What's wrong with you!
I could, do some name calling, but I am just not motivated today. I predict that this law will be short lived. When people realize what happened they will not put up with this.

I also could see an increased rate of handgun purchases and resulting deaths. Some of criminals and some of innocent people. Not a good idea all around. When the government won't protect the public the public is going to do it themselves and quite often not as well.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I could, do some name calling, but I am just not motivated today. I predict that this law will be short lived. When people realize what happened they will not put up with this.

I also could see an increased rate of handgun purchases and resulting deaths. Some of criminals and some of innocent people. Not a good idea all around. When the government won't protect the public the public is going to do it themselves and quite often not as well.
Still, the problems of the new bail law must
be compared to the problems of the old law.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
While it sounds like a bad idea (which it might be),
there is an up side....people who can't afford bail
won't become taxpayer burdens in jail while
awaiting trial.
The bail system has also been a civil liberties
problem too...innocent people serving time cuz
they can't afford bail.


I can actually see the wisdom in your answer. Bail can be expensive and burdensome to those without means. After thinking about I realize even those who have made bail have committed crimes while awaiting trial. I think the judge should have greater leeway in deciding bail.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Still, the problems of the new bail law must
be compared to the problems of the old law.
I am sure that there were problems with the old one. Some thing that it is unfair that more poor are locked up, but more poor tend to commit felonies. Not due to lower moral character, they simply have far less to lose. This is almost certainly a result of the opioid crisis. And that is not going to be fixed without some money being spent. On both rehab and prison. This is a case where people may have to face a choice, treatment or prison. But that thread is of no use if their is not serious treatment spending first. It may seem expensive, but it is almost certainly cheaper in the long run to fix this problem quickly.
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Still, the problems of the new bail law must
be compared to the problems of the old law.

What is likely to happen is that they will never repeal it, but they will eventually "Tweak/Fix" it. But likely only after a violent crime or two is committed that can be tired directly to the lack of bail
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
While it sounds like a bad idea (which it might be),
there is an up side....people who can't afford bail
won't become taxpayer burdens in jail while
awaiting trial.
The bail system has also been a civil liberties
problem too...innocent people serving time cuz
they can't afford bail.

What happens if they decide to not show up for trial?

If one knows the laws, one could spend an entire lifetime committing minor felonies and at worst spend an occasional night or two in jail. One guy could tie up law enforcement resources for decades.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I can actually see the wisdom in your answer.
I bask in the warm glow of your approval.
Bail can be expensive and burdensome to those without means. After thinking about I realize even those who have made bail have committed crimes while awaiting trial. I think the judge should have greater leeway in deciding bail.
Aye, there would be exceptions to any standard policy.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I can actually see the wisdom in your answer. Bail can be expensive and burdensome to those without means. After thinking about I realize even those who have made bail have committed crimes while awaiting trial. I think the judge should have greater leeway in deciding bail.

And some judges will be excessively lenient and some will be excessively harsh. It is the nature of human nature. One thing that should be done is severe escalation of bail if someone is arrested while out on bail. I have known some addicts. They find a loved one to bail them out and go right back to their crimes. By the time they finally face justice they can face years instead of months. If a person abuses the bail system there should be a price of some sort to pay.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What happens if they decide to not show up for trial?
Same thing as if they'd posted bail....an arrest warrant.
If one knows the laws, one could spend an entire lifetime committing minor felonies and at worst spend an occasional night or two in jail. One guy could tie up law enforcement resources for decades.
The question is whether your hypothetical scenario becomes a real problem.
Then it must be weighed against the positives of the new law.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
That has a problem of great individual variation from judge to judge.
It makes sense to have a uniform policy applied to all. But I can see
your point, ie, that individual cases might warrant differing from what
is standard. The process should allow for considering the occasional
exception.

Hey, we're disagreeing...why aren't you calling me names, & decrying
my stupidity? What's wrong with you!
Getting old and losing some of my good qualities: Rude---Crude--and Social Unacceptable.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
That's life with the socialist peoples republic of New York.

Loss of individual freedom and liberty is the forte of the socialist Democrats and it's getting progressively worse each year that passes.

How is this an example of socialism or the "loss of individual freedom and liberty"?
 
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