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My theory about gravity.

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Life as we know it could not exist without gravity. It is a natural binding force, the cause of which is mysterious, that holds everything together in our world and in our universe. Matter would just float in space freely and aimlessly without form otherwise. Without gravity, the universal and mutual attraction between material bodies, there could be no solar system or orbits of heavenly bodies as a foundation to cement life and all the natural necessary provisions to make life possible. Gravity is the restraint the keeps us from drifting away from our sun forever so that we would otherwise freeze to death in short order.

Gravity, like water, makes life possible but also either is sometimes the cause of death. Mother Nature gives life: Mother Nature takes away life.

Yes, but what is your actual theory?

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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Life as we know it could not exist without gravity. It is a natural binding force, the cause of which is mysterious, that holds everything together in our world and in our universe. Matter would just float in space freely and aimlessly without form otherwise. Without gravity, the universal and mutual attraction between material bodies, there could be no solar system or orbits of heavenly bodies as a foundation to cement life and all the natural necessary provisions to make life possible. Gravity is the restraint the keeps us from drifting away from our sun forever so that we would otherwise freeze to death in short order.

Gravity, like water, makes life possible but also either is sometimes the cause of death. Mother Nature gives life: Mother Nature takes away life.

Without the other nuclear forces things would be pretty small. Example every human being alive on earth today would be compacted into a space the size of a sugar lump because of gravity... And what sort of life would that be?
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Native said:
As the dynamic cause in consensus science of gravity is mysterious . . .
No, it's not mysterious. Just because you don't understand that mass causes bending in the 'fabric' of space-time doesn't mean it isn't understood. It's understood very well.
Just because you think you understand what theoretical scientists assumes about gravity, gravity STILL cannot be explained dynamic by any scientists.
Newton himself didn´t claim he could explain his "gravitational force" and Einstein got completely lost in his speculative "bending fabric of space-time" and his rubber sheet example where gravity is used to "explain" gravity.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Native said:
As the dynamic cause in consensus science of gravity is mysterious . . .

Just because you think you understand what theoretical scientists assumes about gravity, gravity STILL cannot be explained dynamic by any scientists.
Newton himself didn´t claim he could explain his "gravitational force" and Einstein got completely lost in his speculative "bending fabric of space-time" and his rubber sheet example where gravity is used to "explain" gravity.

If this is the case then science doesn't "understand" any phenomena. And you could be right.
Who said that if you claim to understand quantum then that proves you don't understand.
But we "understand" in that we can work the equations. The man who guided the Voyager
space probes out of the solar system was Isaac Newton - he didn't have to "comprehend"
the force he was explaining.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
If this is the case then science doesn't "understand" any phenomena. And you could be right.
Who said that if you claim to understand quantum then that proves you don't understand.
But we "understand" in that we can work the equations. The man who guided the Voyager space probes out of the solar system was Isaac Newton - he didn't have to "comprehend" the force he was explaining.
I really like the quantum statement :) It show how far astray pure theoretical speculations can get you.

Well, Newton was proved wrong regarding celestial motions by the discovery of the galactic rotation motions of stars in the galaxy. And since the motions in the Solar System is embedded in the galactic motions, the very concept of gravity is out of order. There cannot be TWO kinds of natural laws of motion in this included system. So the "laws of gravity" cannot be and isn´t explained at all.

Regarding sending probes into space, this can be done without using Newton. It´s just a question of knowing the very weight of the probe and the weight pressure of the atmosphere and knowing in which angle it has to take in order to meet another planet and get a slingshot further our in space.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
I really like the quantum statement :) It show how far astray pure theoretical speculations can get you.

Well, Newton was proved wrong regarding celestial motions by the discovery of the galactic rotation motions of stars in the galaxy. And since the motions in the Solar System is embedded in the galactic motions, the very concept of gravity is out of order. There cannot be TWO kinds of natural laws of motion in this included system. So the "laws of gravity" cannot be and isn´t explained at all.

Regarding sending probes into space, this can be done without using Newton. It´s just a question of knowing the very weight of the probe and the weight pressure of the atmosphere and knowing in which angle it has to take in order to meet another planet and get a slingshot further our in space.

That's news to me there is a gravitational issue with stars in our galaxy.
We know stars are orbiting way too fast at the very center - but we look for a hidden
body (ie black hole) rather that look for a new theory.
And Mr Newton was absolutely crucial in doing the grand tour of the solar system.
You would not have gotten the rocket into space to begin with without him.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
That's news to me there is a gravitational issue with stars in our galaxy.
We know stars are orbiting way too fast at the very center - but we look for a hidden body (ie black hole) rather that look for a new theory.
The discovered problem is that ALL stars in the galaxy moves equally around the common center in the galaxy and this is called the galactic rotation anomaly.

This discovery lead to the first ideas of "dark matter" because scientist thought that this motional pattern would cause the stars to be flung away from the galaxy and there must be another force which holds the stars into the galaxy.

This very motion also discards the idea of having a central "heavy dark hole object" since all stars moves similar to each other, quite opposite the Newtonian idea of celestial gravitational motion. This is why a new gravitational theory is needed.

This problematic is even further confused as the Solar System is embedded in the galactic motion and obeys this law of motion which is contradictory of Newtons ideas.
And Mr Newton was absolutely crucial in doing the grand tour of the solar system.
You would not have gotten the rocket into space to begin with without him.
Newton just inserted his apple gravity assumptions into space and to the empirical known planetary motions. The "grand celestial tour" could of course have been done without knowing anything of Newton who forgot to ponder over how his apple came UP on the tree branches in the first place.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
If this is the case then science doesn't "understand" any phenomena. And you could be right.
Who said that if you claim to understand quantum then that proves you don't understand.
But we "understand" in that we can work the equations. The man who guided the Voyager
space probes out of the solar system was Isaac Newton - he didn't have to "comprehend"
the force he was explaining.
Good point. "Understanding" in science, as with anything else, always has a limit, beyond which all we can say is: "This is just the way nature seems to behave".

What some people say, if I recall it correctly, is that science tells you how nature works but, in the final analysis, not why it does what it does.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Good point. "Understanding" in science, as with anything else, always has a limit, beyond which all we can say is: "This is just the way nature seems to behave".

What some people say, if I recall it correctly, is that science tells you how nature works but, in the final analysis, not why it does what it does.

Richard Feynman was the guy I was trying to recall. He stated if you think you understand
then it proves you don't.
Yeah... that 'WHY" business again.
sigh...
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
The discovered problem is that ALL stars in the galaxy moves equally around the common center in the galaxy and this is called the galactic rotation anomaly.

This discovery lead to the first ideas of "dark matter" because scientist thought that this motional pattern would cause the stars to be flung away from the galaxy and there must be another force which holds the stars into the galaxy.

This very motion also discards the idea of having a central "heavy dark hole object" since all stars moves similar to each other, quite opposite the Newtonian idea of celestial gravitational motion. This is why a new gravitational theory is needed.

This problematic is even further confused as the Solar System is embedded in the galactic motion and obeys this law of motion which is contradictory of Newtons ideas.

Newton just inserted his apple gravity assumptions into space and to the empirical known planetary motions. The "grand celestial tour" could of course have been done without knowing anything of Newton who forgot to ponder over how his apple came UP on the tree branches in the first place.


Wha.. how an apple "came up" isn't a mystery. The apple grew there
and the nutrients necessary moved upwards by standard tree respiration.
The trick was figuring out that fore which caused the apple to fall DOWN
also is the force that keeps the moon UP.
That is - the moon is falling too.
Issues of dark matter, black holes etc are not mysteries of gravity so much
as they are mysteries of what gravity is ACTING UPON.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Without the other nuclear forces things would be pretty small. Example every human being alive on earth today would be compacted into a space the size of a sugar lump because of gravity... And what sort of life would that be?
Life would be sweet? :rolleyes:
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Wha.. how an apple "came up" isn't a mystery. The apple grew there
and the nutrients necessary moved upwards by standard tree respiration.
Gravitationally this is still a mystery that the nutrients can overcome the force of gravity.
The trick was figuring out that fore which caused the apple to fall DOWN
You could claim your natural explanation of the very cyclical formation and reproduction of an apple just as well was/is the cause for it to fall down, couldn´t you?
That is - the moon is falling too.
As far as I know, the Moon is moving AWAY from the Earth with about 4 cm annually, so in fact it is sort of moving UP and not down to the Earth.

You didn´t comment on the more important bit of my answer:
The discovered problem is that ALL stars in the galaxy moves equally around the common center in the galaxy and this is called the galactic rotation anomaly.

This discovery lead to the first ideas of "dark matter" because scientist thought that this motional pattern would cause the stars to be flung away from the galaxy and there must be another force which holds the stars into the galaxy.

This very motion also discards the idea of having a central "heavy dark hole object" since all stars moves similar to each other, quite opposite the Newtonian idea of celestial gravitational motion. This is why a new gravitational theory is needed.

This problematic is even further confused as the Solar System is embedded in the galactic motion and obeys this law of motion which is contradictory of Newtons ideas.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Gravitationally this is still a mystery that the nutrients can overcome the force of gravity.

You could claim your natural explanation of the very cyclical formation and reproduction of an apple just as well was/is the cause for it to fall down, couldn´t you?

As far as I know, the Moon is moving AWAY from the Earth with about 4 cm annually, so in fact it is sort of moving UP and not down to the Earth.

You didn´t comment on the more important bit of my answer:

What draws water up a tree is capillary action. Similar to how water rises up through a paper
towel when you dip it in water.
The moon is falling to the earth about 2300 mph. Only it isn't aimed directly at the earth but
to one side, thus it's falling off to the side, and just keeps falling forever. That is how things
orbit - you have to get your rocket up high and then incline it towards the earth, horizontal
so to speak, at the correct speed it falls around the earth constantly.
Sorry, what was the important bit of your post?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
What draws water up a tree is capillary action. Similar to how water rises up through a paper
towel when you dip it in water.
The moon is falling to the earth about 2300 mph. Only it isn't aimed directly at the earth but
to one side, thus it's falling off to the side, and just keeps falling forever. That is how things
orbit - you have to get your rocket up high and then incline it towards the earth, horizontal
so to speak, at the correct speed it falls around the earth constantly.
Sorry, what was the important bit of your post?
You are quite right of course, but Native makes a fetish out of not understanding science, so you are wasting your time, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

Just for the sake of completeness, the moon is indeed getting gradually farther from Earth, because, due to the pull of the tides, the angular momentum of the Earth's spin is gradually being transferred to the orbital motion of the moon. So the Earth's spin is gradually slowing down while the moon is gaining speed, causing its orbit to gradually move outward from the Earth. But I don't expect Native to accept that explanation.;)
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
You are quite right of course, but Native makes a fetish out of not understanding science, so you are wasting your time, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

Just for the sake of completeness, the moon is indeed getting gradually farther from Earth, because, due to the pull of the tides, the angular momentum of the Earth's spin is gradually being transferred to the orbital motion of the moon. So the Earth's spin is gradually slowing down while the moon is gaining speed, causing its orbit to gradually move outward from the Earth. But I don't expect Native to accept that explanation.;)

I know he meant this - but there was a Bigger Issue here, that of the moon's orbit.
Since we put laser reflectors on the moon we have been able to measure this.
Makes you wonder how the moon-hoax conspiracy folk explain our understanding
of this, and how we could possibly treasure moon samples.
Tidal machines to extract energy from tides is causing the moon to drift faster -
so we need a "Save the Moon" Campaign.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
What draws water up a tree is capillary action. Similar to how water rises up through a paper towel when you dip it in water.
I know this very well. So the "heavy gravitation from the Earth" cannot even overcome the biological force of the capillary action.
The moon is falling to the earth about 2300 mph. Only it isn't aimed directly at the earth but to one side, thus it's falling off to the side, and just keeps falling forever. That is how things orbit - you have to get your rocket up high and then incline it towards the earth, horizontal so to speak, at the correct speed it falls around the earth constantly.
I know of this gravitational theory but the Moon isn´t falling at all. This is just a gravitational concept for atmospheric motions around the Earth in a certain distance. Further out in space there is NO PULL at all from the Earth which is confirmed by the increasing distance to the Moon. And besides all this, the Newtonian idea of universal celestial motions is contradicted by the discovery of the galactic rotation "anomaly".
 
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