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General conceptual question for any and all

Which person is correct in the 2 scenarios - X or Y?

  • Total voters
    2
tas8831

tas8831

Well-Known Member
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?

Thanks!
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Depends on the distance.

Although person X did not give sufficient information, if the distance between points is less than 500 miles then it is not impossible. If greater than 500mls then not possible
 
Left Coast

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
tas8831 said:
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Person Y is correct, unless I'm totally misunderstanding Person X. Does Person X mean "you" as in "anyone," or "you" as in a specific person? The only context where I could see Person X being right is if they're indicating something about a particular person, eg. "you" is a disabled person who can't travel 500 miles period.
 
tas8831

tas8831

Well-Known Member
ChristineM said:
Depends on the distance.

Although person X did not give sufficient information, if the distance between points is less than 500 miles then it is not impossible. If greater than 500mls then not possible
Click to expand...
But are there not a great number of possible starting point given a distance?

QpGem.png
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
tas8831 said:
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?
Click to expand...
It is illogical because point A may be well within the 500 mile limit. Just because Y doesn't know where point A is doesn't give him information enough to say "it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point.

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?
Click to expand...
Don't know how your Person Y defines "know" but if he's willing to take Person X's word for it then he would know that if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles. Now if "know" can only be established by personal experience then it would be logical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is.


.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
tas8831 said:
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?
Click to expand...

Hmm...as a mathematician, I would read X's claim to be 'there are no points within 500 miles from A'. For this, you only need to know point A *or* that you are in a situation where no two points are 500 miles apart.

For example, if I live on a small asteroid that is 400 miles in circumference, then NO two points are 500 miles away from each other.

See another alternative below.

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I would read X as saying that point A and point B are more than 500 miles away from each other.

So, for example, if there are NO towns within 500 miles of B, and we know A is a town, then we know that it is impossible to go just 500 miles from A and reach B *no matter what town A happens to be*.

Alternatively, they may simply be assuming that you have two towns more than 500 miles apart and going from there.
 
N

night912

Well-Known Member
Polymath257 said:
Hmm...as a mathematician, I would read X's claim to be 'there are no points within 500 miles from A'. For this, you only need to know point A *or* that you are in a situation where no two points are 500 miles apart.

For example, if I live on a small asteroid that is 400 miles in circumference, then NO two points are 500 miles away from each other.

You're not entirely wrong. Point A is anywhere as long as it's not 500 miles away(using only whole numbers here). So it doesn't matter where you start as long as you don't stop/end anywhere once you traveled and reached 500 miles from where you start. In this case, A can be anywhere from 1 to 499 miles or 1 to 501+ miles. It's possible that A is closer than 500 miles away because you haven't reached 500 yet.
Click to expand...

Polymath257 said:
I would read X as saying that point A and point B are more than 500 miles away from each other.

So, for example, if there are NO towns within 500 miles of B, and we know A is a town, then we know that it is impossible to go just 500 miles from A and reach B *no matter what town A happens to be*.

Alternatively, they may simply be assuming that you have two towns more than 500 miles apart and going from there.

I would agree with you for the most part here. Point A is anywhere as long as you travel over 500 miles.
Click to expand...

The difference between the two is one word, "only," in scenario 2. It sets the minimum amount of miles traveled in order for it to qualify as going from point A to point B. Also, for both scenarios, the "distancewise" apart of point A to B is irrelevant. What's only relevant is the amount of miles traveled. To be more clear, point A and point B can be the exact same spot. One needs only to start at a certain spot and travel, within the parameters stated, then end within the stated parameters. What's important is the "start" and "end."
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
tas8831 said:
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?
Click to expand...

I'ld say it's illogical for Y to accept the claim as a true-ism, because we don't know where the starting point is, as that information isn't given.

Wheter it is illogical for person X to claim it, that would depend on if X has that information or not. X might just be refusing to share that intel. Which would be rather stupid if X wants Y to believe it though.

If X doesn't have that intel, then it would be illogical / irrational of X to claim / believe it is the case.

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?
Click to expand...

I'ld answer it the same way as the previous scenario.
 
McBell

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
tas8831 said:
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
How is it illogical?
person Y not knowing the details does not make person X wrong.
It merely means that person Y is not confident enough to make any commitment in answering person X
 
tas8831

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Heyo said:
How is this question related to evolution vs. creationism?
Click to expand...
It is premised on the "not enough mutations/time" argument against human evolution from a chimp-like ancestor.
Creationists like ReMine claim that there is only x-number of beneficial mutations that could have become fixed in the human lineage in 6 million years, and this is too few for humans to have evolved.
But they do not know what traits the ancestor had, nor how many such mutations are 'required' to alter any specific traits.
 
tas8831

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Mestemia said:
How is it illogical?
person Y not knowing the details does not make person X wrong.
Click to expand...
Person X is not in possession of the necessary details, yet believes their argument to have merit.
It merely means that person Y is not confident enough to make any commitment in answering person X
Click to expand...
LOL!

Whatever, man.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
tas8831 said:
I just want to see if I am on solid ground here -

Scenario 1:
Person X: "It is impossible to go 500 miles and arrive at point A."

Person Y:"But... where do you start from?"

Person X :"You cannot travel 500 miles and get to point A."

Person Y:"If you cannot tell me where to start from, how can you say that one cannot go 500 miles and get to point A? It makes no sense."​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot go 500 miles and arrive at Point A without knowing the starting point?

Scenario 2:

Person X:"If you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"I know where point B is, where is Point A?"

Person X:"Like I said, if you start at Point A, you cannot get to Point B by only going 500 miles."

Person Y:"Right.. So where is Point A again?"

Person X:"Are you admitting that you cannot get from Point A to Point B by going 500 miles?"

Person Y:"No, I am telling you that unless I know where Point A actually is, it is impossible to to know whether or not I can go 500 miles and get to Point B"​

In this scenario, is Person Y correct - that it is illogical to claim that one cannot get from Point A to Point B by driving 500 miles without knowing where the starting point is?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
The mere fact that Person X hasn't told Person Y where Point A is doesn't imply that Point A's location is unknown. Person X may know precisely where Point A is even if they haven't shared this information with Person Y.
 
tas8831

tas8831

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
The mere fact that Person X hasn't told Person Y where Point A is doesn't imply that Point A's location is unknown. Person X may know precisely where Point A is even if they haven't shared this information with Person Y.
Click to expand...
For crying out loud...

Person X DOES NOT KNOW, yet continues to make the argument.

That is the whole point.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It depends where point A is. If it's >500 miles away, traveling 500 miles won't get you there. If less you can travel there.
If it's one mile away you can walk circles around it for 499 miles then walk up to it.

Why is this a question? What am I missing?
 
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