• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why Property Tax Should Not Exist

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
First of all, it's an extremely regressive tax. As you know, society tends to like so-called "progressive taxes" while avoiding taxes that target the poor. So let's think about this, you scrape together enough to build a house. Barely. You can build a tiny house for about $10k or so. And then every year, you get to pay up, or someone who has nothing to do with building or maintaining the house tries to repossess it.

Well, you say, why is it regressive? The poor can only live in apartments. Well, no. Most of the country came from farmhouses and small family homes in the country. But movies and tv told them they had to leave their parents (or in some cases grandparents) behind in order to pursue some pipe drean of making it big. You want to stay at a nice hotel/apartment? You're paying to be in the city, you're paying to be near good jobs, you're paying to be near good food, good internet, and all sort of creature comforts. Out in the country, property tax charges people who have to pay a premium to even have decent internet on their housing. This is unjust. The people charging old ladies and people who live with their parents because they cannot afford even the crudest apartment are basically thieves.

What this is really about is a sort of state sponsored game of envy. People are brainwashed into thinking that the city will provide them all they need, so they flip their houses to go move there. Then generations later, these jealous kids of the stupid city folk want to tax these nice looking farm homes (which they sold in the first place to go chase some stupid dream). Did they work the field? Did they build or repair anything? No? Then what gives taxers the right to try to take this land?

Property tax is regressive precisely because small towns typically have only a few choices for work. If you worked on some self-employed gig, without such taxes, you still have a roof over your head, and some insulation, and heating and cooling can wait for when you have the money for your electric bill. With them, despite generations of family working hard to own a home, it can be taken in one generation, and then you'll be homeless.

But the problems with property tax don't end there. Because they typically are based on appraisal, you can get appraised as owning more of a house than you really do. If you live in a liberal state like New Jersey (that in order to promote development has raised property taxes), you are strongly encouraged to move away so that they can build a block. This destroys communities, in order to build up blocks as condominiums or high rises. Going by our New Jersey cottage, which btw my great grandfather built himself, but we are now paying more in property taxes between three people than for our property in Virginia (and it's a place with bare wood and no heating), if they cleared this block, it would result in all the pine trees getting cut (and some of them are at least a century old I think), all those ppl having to get new homes or be homeless, and some shopping centers put up. New Jersey tourism sprawl is already terrible, but urban sprawl creates more poverty, more homelessness, and more traffic jams.

What happens when you abolish property taxes (except for business property which is typically about what is actually used for profit)? Well, first, people stop being homeless. So you've solved one problem of people not being on the street when unemployed. Second, because most jobs ask for a permanent address, people now have a means of seeking employment, even if they must commute. Third, you've solved some problems of hygiene, meaning the average health of the populace is higher. You're also lowering rape and violent crime (outside the cities, where people have moved to multi-floor buildings), issues that plague people who have no protection against other people. Fourth, if less people value these "trendy" homes, big cities have less allure, aside from these nice apartments. This creates in turn two more things: an end to low quality apartments in favor of just paying repair fees, heating and cooling, and all the rest to keep your house nice, making a higher standard of living and the ability to command more for these apartments; and more importantly I means less people are moving to the city. The average small town used to have small businesses, which in turn created friendly communities. Instead, most small towns as a result of all the children moving away (you can't help youthful rebellion but you can make sure they have a place to move back to) essentially dry up economically. But thet don't actually have to be like this. I went to a small town called Colonial Beach, where they successfully found that in addition to being a tourist beach town, had a nice art movement going on. Once a lot of people start living in towns rather than cities, small businesses crop up, and more importantly, an alternative to urbanization and its noise, congestion, and poverty appears. The tourist/indie art town.

In short, when people have nice places to live, this also means that some of them do go to the cities. They get industrial jobs, and work to buy houses over their own to retire in. Small towns become communities, communities are where people (gay or straight) meet their lovers. Social security becomes mostly unnecessary, as does much of welfare and food stamps. There still are poor, but they have homes. They don't freeze in the cold. Property tax causes a great number of issues, including destruction of virgin land, and is unjust.

Basically, property tax is leftovers from feudalism. But we don't have kings granting properties to lords anymore. And we can collect taxes in other ways. Like, adding taxes to utilities, of which people willingly pay for, because they want that cool smart tv or that fast internet connection. In short, adding taxes to things people buy for their home can easily cover the real expenses of government, withour people having no place to rest (that in turn becomes their problem as they have to build facilities, which seldom work).
 
Last edited:

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
At least around here, property taxes vary depending on whether a property is rural (and therefore gets fewer services) and urban. The rural property owners aren't paying for, say, the transit service and sidewalks that the people living in the built-up part of town get.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What happens when you abolish property taxes (except for business property which is typically about what is actually used for profit)? Well, first, people stop being homeless.
BTW: can you step through your thought process there? How would abolishing property taxes solve homelessness?

(And are you counting residential rental properties as "business properties?")
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Interesting thing about property taxes here....
Homeowners get a big discount on property taxes.
But commercial property owners don't. So apartement
renters pay the full freight of property taxes in their rent.
Homeowners are a powerful lobby, particularly since
politicians tend to be of this tribe. Time for their massive
subsidies to end.
At least the recent tax changes reduced their SALT
deduction on federal income taxes.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
The problem with any suggestion of abolition or reduction of tax revenue is how to compensate for missing revenue.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
First of all, it's an extremely regressive tax. As you know, society tends to like so-called "progressive taxes" while avoiding taxes that target the poor. So let's think about this, you scrape together enough to build a house. Barely. You can build a tiny house for about $10k or so. And then every year, you get to pay up, or someone who has nothing to do with building or maintaining the house tries to repossess it.

Well, you say, why is it regressive? The poor can only live in apartments. Well, no. Most of the country came from farmhouses and small family homes in the country. But movies and tv told them they had to leave their parents (or in some cases grandparents) behind in order to pursue some pipe drean of making it big. You want to stay at a nice hotel/apartment? You're paying to be in the city, you're paying to be near good jobs, you're paying to be near good food, good internet, and all sort of creature comforts. Out in the country, property tax charges people who have to pay a premium to even have decent internet on their housing. This is unjust. The people charging old ladies and people who live with their parents because they cannot afford even the crudest apartment are basically thieves.

What this is really about is a sort of state sponsored game of envy. People are brainwashed into thinking that the city will provide them all they need, so they flip their houses to go move there. Then generations later, these jealous kids of the stupid city folk want to tax these nice looking farm homes (which they sold in the first place to go chase some stupid dream). Did they work the field? Did they build or repair anything? No? Then what gives taxers the right to try to take this land?

Property tax is regressive precisely because small towns typically have only a few choices for work. If you worked on some self-employed gig, without such taxes, you still have a roof over your head, and some insulation, and heating and cooling can wait for when you have the money for your electric bill. With them, despite generations of family working hard to own a home, it can be taken in one generation, and then you'll be homeless.

But the problems with property tax don't end there. Because they typically are based on appraisal, you can get appraised as owning more of a house than you really do. If you live in a liberal state like New Jersey (that in order to promote development has raised property taxes), you are strongly encouraged to move away so that they can build a block. This destroys communities, in order to build up blocks as condominiums or high rises. Going by our New Jersey cottage, which btw my great grandfather built himself, but we are now paying more in property taxes between three people than for our property in Virginia (and it's a place with bare wood and no heating), if they cleared this block, it would result in all the pine trees getting cut (and some of them are at least a century old I think), all those ppl having to get new homes or be homeless, and some shopping centers put up. New Jersey tourism sprawl is already terrible, but urban sprawl creates more poverty, more homelessness, and more traffic jams.

What happens when you abolish property taxes (except for business property which is typically about what is actually used for profit)? Well, first, people stop being homeless. So you've solved one problem of people not being on the street when unemployed. Second, because most jobs ask for a permanent address, people now have a means of seeking employment, even if they must commute. Third, you've solved some problems of hygiene, meaning the average health of the populace is higher. You're also lowering rape and violent crime (outside the cities, where people have moved to multi-floor buildings), issues that plague people who have no protection against other people. Fourth, if less people value these "trendy" homes, big cities have less allure, aside from these nice apartments. This creates in turn two more things: an end to low quality apartments in favor of just paying repair fees, heating and cooling, and all the rest to keep your house nice, making a higher standard of living and the ability to command more for these apartments; and more importantly I means less people are moving to the city. The average small town used to have small businesses, which in turn created friendly communities. Instead, most small towns as a result of all the children moving away (you can't help youthful rebellion but you can make sure they have a place to move back to) essentially dry up economically. But thet don't actually have to be like this. I went to a small town called Colonial Beach, where they successfully found that in addition to being a tourist beach town, had a nice art movement going on. Once a lot of people start living in towns rather than cities, small businesses crop up, and more importantly, an alternative to urbanization and its noise, congestion, and poverty appears. The tourist/indie art town.

In short, when people have nice places to live, this also means that some of them do go to the cities. They get industrial jobs, and work to buy houses over their own to retire in. Small towns become communities, communities are where people (gay or straight) meet their lovers. Social security becomes mostly unnecessary, as does much of welfare and food stamps. There still are poor, but they have homes. They don't freeze in the cold. Property tax causes a great number of issues, including destruction of virgin land, and is unjust.

Basically, property tax is leftovers from feudalism. But we don't have kings granting properties to lords anymore. And we can collect taxes in other ways. Like, adding taxes to utilities, of which people willingly pay for, because they want that cool smart tv or that fast internet connection. In short, adding taxes to things people buy for their home can easily cover the real expenses of government, withour people having no place to rest (that in turn becomes their problem as they have to build facilities, which seldom work).

A sales tax is far more regressive. Just out of curiosity, I took an example from Zillow, a $180,000 house from a low-end area of town. The monthly property tax was $156 per month, which is 0.08% of its price, far less than the 9% or more in sales tax for other items. It's even far less than the 20-30% people typically pay in income tax.

But more significantly, the monthly mortgage payment is $674 per month, which is 4.3 times the monthly property tax. That's clearly the bigger bite out of one's income, so one might well ask why the private sector deserves to get so much more money than is collected in property taxes? They could double the property tax and cut the mortgage payment in half, and it would be $679 per month, which would be a savings of $151 per month.

The amount that goes to the private sector is a far bigger bite out of a working person's income, and that's where it needs to be reduced. Think of the enormous amount of disposable income which would be freed up by lowering monthly mortgage payments and rents to more reasonable levels. It would really take a great deal of pressure off the working classes and it would be an enormous boost to the economy.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
maybe you could have no property tax along with no police or fire services??

You could conceivably run some of these services via donation. As in, your name is not on the list of donors to the fire station, guess what? Your house burns they don't lift a finger.

I'm a big fan of voluntaryism.

I think a great deal of these taxes could reasonably be transferred to other, more private fields and have people effectively paying into what sort of stuff they want. If I just want a roof over my head, free (after buying the property). A working shower, a bit more, a driveway other than dirt I have to hire someone to build, and so on.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You could conceivably run some of these services via donation. As in, your name is not on the list of donors to the fire station, guess what? Your house burns they don't lift a finger.
This is a very bad idea, IMHO.

When a house burns to the ground, the rest of the neighborhood suffers a loss of property value. In addition, a fire in one house left unaddressed is a fire hazard for other homes and is a risk to the health of other people.

It's the same for law enforcement, a lack of law enforcement at one address negatively impacts the home owners at neighboring addresses.

There has to be a baseline of basic services: roads, fire, law enforcement, access to health care, access to clean water, access to food... or else everyone suffers. That is the reason "We The People of the United States" chose to attempt to form a "more perfect union". ( Source: The Constitution of the United States of America )
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Interesting thing about property taxes here....
Homeowners get a big discount on property taxes.
But commercial property owners don't. So apartement
renters pay the full freight of property taxes in their rent.
Homeowners are a powerful lobby, particularly since
politicians tend to be of this tribe. Time for their massive
subsidies to end.
At least the recent tax changes reduced their SALT
deduction on federal income taxes.
In California, the big property owners who stay in their buildings for a long long time get a tremendous tax break due to a proposition we passed. People who move a lot, pay a lot.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In California, the big property owners who stay in their buildings for a long long time get a tremendous tax break due to a proposition we passed. People who move a lot, pay a lot.
I know. Friends in Santa Barbara benefit greatly from that.
People cannot easily move because they get trapped in a
way....one's huge subsidy only applies to the one they're in.
Btw, they're both avowed Marxists.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I know. Friends in Santa Barbara benefit greatly from that.
People cannot easily move because they get trapped in a
way....one's huge subsidy only applies to the one they're in.
Btw, they're both avowed Marxists.
It shows how even in "far left" California big business gets their way. They just have to throw a few crumbs to ordinary people. It's like giving a dog a biscuit while dining on waygu beef.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It shows how even in "far left" California big business gets their way. They just have to throw a few crumbs to ordinary people. It's like giving a dog a biscuit while dining on waygu beef.
But does business see this property tax limitation?
This homeowner subsidy is about people's homes,
with the biggest largesse being conferred upon the
spendiest homes.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ah yes, property tax. That time of year when we are reminded that we really don't own a damn thing.
 
Top