Are American boys getting stupider everyday?

PureX · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
I don't see much work going on in Lawton, OK at all. The streets and infrastructure are in total shambles and rarely is a tractor, a road roller, a dump truck, a paving machine or a hard-hat on the streets to be seen. I see a lot of (mostly male) cops cruising around in shiny new police cars in town here, though. This city of 100K people can buy more police cars but can't even pave the streets. Just strolling around my neighborhood in the morning there is seldom fewer than five cop cars to be seen. And this is dirt-farmer Oklahoma, not East LA.

You elected the people that are making the decisions about where the money comes from, and where it goes. Right now, it's all coming from the middle and working classes, and it's all going to wealthy plutocrats. And to make that flow as efficient as possible, the plutocrats want a few "good workers" to work 70 hours a week for as little as they can get away with paying them. And then they want lots of police around on their payroll to control the non-productive riff-raff in case they get 'upidy' about being broke and out of work, or broke and overworked. All those cops are there to make sure you don't decide to fight back against a system that is owned and operated by them, and is making them very wealthy.

And the Boy Scouts aren't going to do a thing about any of this because they were created to teach boys how to be "good workers" for the rich. And not to get 'upidy' when the rich decide to toss them aside for the next "good worker" who will work even harder and for less.

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 12, 2020

PureX said:
You elected the people that are making the decisions about where the money comes from, and where it goes. Right now, it's all coming from the middle and working classes, and it's all going to wealthy plutocrats. And to make that flow as efficient as possible, the plutocrats want a few "good workers" to work 70 hours a week for as little as they can get away with paying them. And then they want lots of police around on their payroll to control the non-productive riff-raff in case they get 'upidy' about being broke and out of work, or broke and overworked. All those cops are there to make sure you don't decide to fight back against a system that is owned and operated by them, and is making them very wealthy.

And the Boy Scouts aren't going to do a thing about any of this because they were created to teach boys how to be "good workers" for the rich. And not to get 'upidy' when the rich decide to toss them aside for the next "good worker" who will work even harder and for less.

The American working stiff wants his UNION back. I agree!

I helped elect a WOMAN for my Lawton Ward 3 counsel this November to throw the male
incumbent out on the campaign promise of fixing the streets among other things. As much as I seem to be championing men on this thread, I think many men are horrible politicians.

Linda Chapman wins Ward 3 City Council Election

I'm eager to start seeing men in hard-hats, orange cones, orange flags, gravel piles, graders, dump trucks, pavers, rollers, water trucks and tractors all over the streets here soon.

Heyo · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
For Homo sapiens, that is what is natural. Sex roles may vary by species.

An Appeal to nature - Wikipedia fallacy doesn't help you for two reasons:
1. we have left nature a long time ago
2. it isn't true. (The Dynamics of Gender in Early Agricultural Societies of the Near East on JSTOR)

PureX · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
The American working stiff wants his UNION back. I agree!

I helped elect a WOMAN for my Lawton Ward 3 counsel this November to throw the male
incumbent out on the campaign promise of fixing the streets among other things. As much as I seem to be championing men on this thread, I think many men are horrible politicians.

Linda Chapman wins Ward 3 City Council Election

I'm eager to start seeing men in hard-hats, orange cones, orange flags, gravel piles, graders, dump trucks, pavers, rollers, water trucks and tractors all over the streets here soon.

Before you are ever going to see that happen, you are going to have to convince the plutocrats that it's to their advantage to allow some of their profits to go to those kinds of projects. Right now, they'd rather let the roads go to pot, and/or make you pay to fix them, and keep their profits in their stock portfolios. Just as they would rather let you die of starvation and exposure under a bridge somewhere (out of sight and out of mind) than give up some of their profits to make sure that you are being fed and provided with adequate health care. And women are just as capable of being that greedy as men are. Though so far, they have tended not to be.

Saint Frankenstein · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
Why are they falling behind in academics and in college attendance? Is there a gross lack of a father in the home? Personally, I think the demise of an all-male youth organization as the Boy Scouts is not helping matters either. We have lost the strong old value that the MAN is the economic provider for the family. Academic achievement and career success is crucial to this. Often successful sons were pushed hard by their parents.
Is the public school system failing our nation's male youth? I hear the two-parent family is dying.

Loss of manufacturing, the demise of the infrastructure and the reduction of traditional male trades (carpenter, construction heavy equipment operator, woodworker, machinist) doesn't help.

Male youth need a beacon of hope, a guiding light.

For once, I generally agree with you. Men and boys in America are in a crisis but I don't know what the solution is.

The End of Men

epronovost · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
There was a time in history when it was mostly the male sex that had college degrees and professions as lawyers, doctors, CPA's, bank executives, dentists, surgeons, military officers, scientists, architects, engineers and such.

One of the reason it was the case was by actually preventing, by force of the law, women from becoming any of these things. Then by force of custom women were actively pushed out of these careers for decades sometime resorting to downright cruel startagem. It wasn't because men in the past were so much better at these things than men right now, but because women were more oppressed they are right now.

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 12, 2020

Saint Frankenstein said:
For once, I generally agree with you. Men and boys in America are in a crisis but I don't know what the solution is.

The End of Men

If there is a God, then perhaps only He can fix the problems.

Milton Platt · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
Why are they falling behind in academics and in college attendance? Is there a gross lack of a father in the home? Personally, I think the demise of an all-male youth organization as the Boy Scouts is not helping matters either. We have lost the strong old value that the MAN is the economic provider for the family. Academic achievement and career success is crucial to this. Often successful sons were pushed hard by their parents.
Is the public school system failing our nation's male youth? I hear the two-parent family is dying.

Loss of manufacturing, the demise of the infrastructure and the reduction of traditional male trades (carpenter, construction heavy equipment operator, woodworker, machinist) doesn't help.

Male youth need a beacon of hope, a guiding light.

It isn't the children, it is the educational system and parenting.

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 12, 2020

Milton Platt said:
It isn't the children, it is the educational system and parenting.

That's where I agree. I don't think boys are naturally becoming so stupid, uncaring, unmotivated and/or lazy. Adults have let them down.
Adults have done a great disservice to the male youth of America.

In the fall of 1979, it was mostly the names of boys who were on the honor roll at my high school. Evolution has in no way occurred so quickly as for the brains of girls to rise above the brains of boys over mere 40 years. Something else drastic happened over that time.

epronovost · Jan 12, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
That's where I agree. I don't think boys are naturally becoming so stupid, uncaring, unmotivated and/or lazy. Adults have let them down.
Adults have done a great disservice to the male youth of America.

As have I mentionned before. Boys and young men participation and level of diplomation is pretty much at its highest in history.

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 12, 2020

epronovost said:
As have I mentionned before. Boys and young men participation and level of diplomation is pretty much at its highest in history.

I don't know what that means.

Which sex is on high school honor rolls more these days?

If this article bears any truth, it makes me wonder:

Now girls have the advantage in school - American Experiment

Instructional changes like these appear to have hurt boys. Boys tend to be less mature, more impulsive and more easily bored than girls. As a result, they benefit from structured lessons, clear expectations and strict deadlines.

Boys also need firm, consistent discipline. Today, classroom discipline is often inconsistent, and lacks the authoritative tone to which boys are most likely to respond.

Finally, boys tend to thrive on competition, and frequently flounder in collaborative group settings. One researcher has summed matters up this way: “By rejecting the old-fashioned ladder of tests, measurable achievement and competition, incentives were lost that had once given school a comprehensible point to many pupils — particularly the male ones.”

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 12, 2020

Women with careers outside the house can't
mother underage children properly. Women with careers outside the house can't keep house properly.

Society has crumbled and the family has crumbled without the proper sex roles in force.

Woman = nest, mother bird
Man = bring home bacon

Women bear children.
Women nurse babies.

Men don't do either.

The Waltons are an ideal TV model for an American family.

McBell · Jan 13, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
The Waltons are an ideal TV model for an American family.

You do know that the Waltons were a fictional family, right?
As was Leave it to Beaver
Brady bunch
Family ties
eight is enough
etc.

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 13, 2020

Mestemia said:
You do know that the Waltons were a fictional family, right?
As was Leave it to Beaver
Brady bunch
Family ties
eight is enough
etc.

as I said, a MODEL for the real world to follow

Many old TV families were prime examples for ideal families, they were model families.

I think the Martin TV family is an ideal model family. They were the Lassie TV series family in the late 1950's and early 1960's.

The Evans family on Good Times in the 1970's is a model family for black Americans. The youngest boy was an academic achiever and the older boy had enthusiasm in painting (art) and the father had a work ethic like a mule. The daughter seemed to be an OK girl but sassy to her brothers at times. The mother and wife was churchgoing (but not a hypocrite or phony Christian) and good woman of the home. They were poor but of moral upright values and old-fashioned work ethics.

epronovost · Jan 13, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
I don't know what that means.

Which sex is on high school honor rolls more these days?

Actually what that means is that more boys and young men gain diploma then ever before in history and as for honor rolls, girls always were aways more performant than boys at school in pretty much every single classes and this for nearly a century in 30 different countries. What people need to realise is that boys dropout rates is overplayed and so is the academic gap. While there is a gap in grades between boys and girls, it isn't that massive. We are talking about about 5 to 7% on average. This isn't a highly significative gap if you take into consideration tests margin of errors in achievements evaluation. Much more boys than girls abandon their classes, but most of those boys do return back to school and complete their studies, it just takes them a little bit more time.

Girls Make Higher Grades than Boys in All School Subjects, Analysis Finds

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 13, 2020

epronovost said:
Actually what that means is that more boys and young men gain diploma then ever before in history and as for honor rolls, girls always were aways more performant than boys at school in pretty much every single classes and this for nearly a century in 30 different countries. What people need to realise is that boys dropout rates is overplayed and so is the academic gap. While there is a gap in grades between boys and girls, it isn't that massive. We are talking about about 5 to 7% on average. This isn't a highly significative gap if you take into consideration tests margin of errors in achievements evaluation. Much more boys than girls abandon their classes, but most of those boys do return back to school and complete their studies, it just takes them a little bit more time.

Girls Make Higher Grades than Boys in All School Subjects, Analysis Finds

Then Woodside High School (my school) at Woodside, California in the fall of 1979 must have been a great exception. It seems like at least 3/4 of the names on that list for the honor roll (3.50+ GPA) then were boys' names and it was displayed in front of the dean's office. Most of the names on the Deans' List (4.0) were boys' names then also. Prestigious (snobbish) Stanford University was nearby my HS at Woodside.

It could be also that male students fared much better in a high-class state as California then and especially so in the more opulent western counties of the San Francisco Bay Area. Boys in hick states dominated by agriculture and hard labor might not fare so well academically speaking.

California was America's pinnacle for academic excellence throughout most of the 20th century.

SomeRandom · Jan 13, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
Women with careers outside the house can't
mother underage children properly. Women with careers outside the house can't keep house properly.

Society has crumbled and the family has crumbled without the proper sex roles in force.

Woman = nest, mother bird
Man = bring home bacon

Women bear children.
Women nurse babies.

Men don't do either.

The Waltons are an ideal TV model for an American family.

What the ever living hell are you blathering about? Single parent incomes haven’t existed for 40 years!
We have yet to die off due to apparently not getting parental supervision? The hell, every single person I know among my generation (with some exceptions, obviously) had both parents working and they still lived perfectly normal suburban blissful lives with all the cooking and cleaning done. And both parents spending time with them.
Time to grow the hell up and enter society like everyone else, instead of whining that we don’t live in the stupid fake veneer of Leave it Beaver.
And just FYI, outside of the US the lower levels of your education systems are mocked ruthlessly for encouraging dumbasses. (Except for AP classes, those are cool.)
Even my drunk as hell country beat you guys in Maths and Science just a couple years ago according to PEW.
I’ll be damned if I will praise our education system, but talking to Americans on here I am often baffled at how little they were apparently taught in their science classes in comparison. Or indeed just how American centric their history classes apparently were. Sure we covered our history too, in Primary school. After that was world history.
U.S. academic achievement lags that of many other countries

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 13, 2020

SomeRandom said:
What the ever living hell are you blathering about? Single parent incomes haven’t existed for 40 years!
We have yet to die off due to apparently not getting parental supervision? The hell, every single person I know among my generation (with some exceptions, obviously) had both parents working and they still lived perfectly normal suburban blissful lives with all the cooking and cleaning done.
Time to grow the hell up and enter society like everyone else, instead of whining that we don’t live in the stupid fake veneer of Leave it Beaver.
And just FYI, outside of the US the lower levels of your education systems are mocked ruthlessly for encouraging dumbasses. (Except for AP classes, those are cool.)
Even my drunk as hell country beat you guys in Maths and Science just a couple years ago according to PEW.
I’ll be damned if I will praise our education system, but talking to Americans on here I am often baffled at how little they were apparently taught in their science classes in comparison.
U.S. academic achievement lags that of many other countries

I was born in 1964. Dad worked. Mom tended house. That's what I know. That's all I know. Confirmed lifetime bachelor here and pretty much a hermit since getting out of the army in 1995. I know nothing about families today except what I read. Most of the people since leaving the service I've known were single.

SomeRandom · Jan 13, 2020

Jonathan Bailey said:
I was born in 1964. Dad worked. Mom tended house. That's what I know. That's all I know. Confirmed lifetime bachelor here and pretty much a hermit since getting out of the army in 1995. I know nothing about families today except what I read. Most of the people since leaving the service I've known were single.

Then maybe you should start interacting with the real world, instead of living in blind nostalgia?
My father literally grew up during the Great Depression and even he would punch you in the face for saying such misogynistic crap. His direct family all had two person incomes and they’re at least in their 70s by now.
Where I live I’m mostly from a family of teachers, both male and female. Most of my girlfriends have PhDs in hard scientific disciplines, married and have yet to run into any unsurmountable challenges when raising a well adjusted family. Most of my guy friends would balk at your outdated suggestions at gender roles. And they weren’t raised by hippies or anything. We live in 2020. Time to adapt or die.

Jonathan Bailey · Jan 13, 2020

SomeRandom said:
What the ever living hell are you blathering about? Single parent incomes haven’t existed for 40 years!
We have yet to die off due to apparently not getting parental supervision? The hell, every single person I know among my generation (with some exceptions, obviously) had both parents working and they still lived perfectly normal suburban blissful lives with all the cooking and cleaning done. And both parents spending time with them.
Time to grow the hell up and enter society like everyone else, instead of whining that we don’t live in the stupid fake veneer of Leave it Beaver.
And just FYI, outside of the US the lower levels of your education systems are mocked ruthlessly for encouraging dumbasses. (Except for AP classes, those are cool.)
Even my drunk as hell country beat you guys in Maths and Science just a couple years ago according to PEW.
I’ll be damned if I will praise our education system, but talking to Americans on here I am often baffled at how little they were apparently taught in their science classes in comparison. Or indeed just how American centric their history classes apparently were. Sure we covered our history too, in Primary school. After that was world history.
U.S. academic achievement lags that of many other countries

My grandfather had taught me that Australia was an island of convicts from England.

Are American boys getting stupider everyday?

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