I am absolutely certain that you are absolutely right.
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Absolute Certainty
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
I am absolutely certain that you are absolutely right.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
We know how to minimize those errors? Maybe you think after millions have died or been killed as a result of errors?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Some can explain. For instance, take a peace movement. Or animal shelters. The advocates can usually explain why they do these things.
I can offer that I follow and apply the Absolute Certainty in my life for all people.
I see life is more than self, even though life in some aspects has aspects of self that have to be fulfilled.
Thus every thought, every prayer every action becomes a longing to do it for the good of ALL, a world citizen on one planet where all are as brothers and sisters.
In that way I see that Absolute Certainty will eventually embrace all people and all people can have that certainty, in a world where nothing short of that foundation in unity, can save us from the cancer of materialistic tenancies.
Regards Tony
As a professional mathematician, I have to disagree. There is no certainty in math either. There are *always* assumptions and if you change those assumptions, you change the resulting truths of math. Even logic is not certain (although we tend to stick with a two-values logic based on true/false): there are three valued logics as well as versions of logic where the 'law of excluded middle' is false.
How do you know you have those? Could that evidence be wrong?I know I exist because I have a body and a soul. That is what it means to exist from my perspective.
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Precisely. And an awareness of that possibility means you are NOT 100% certain. You *might* be 99.9999999999999% certain, but not 100%
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Well, yes-- I understand the concept of "givens" in Maths. That being said, since it is 100% abstract, and self-contained (as it were) math is entirely dependent on math, and nothing outside of it. I loved studying a bit about non-Euclidean Geometry, which seemed to defy what we observe, yet within it's scope, is sensible.
I've heard others describe math as the only thing we know, that doesn't need external proofs, i.e. chemicals in a lab or something. It's entirely abstract.
Which is pretty cool, from where I sit.
It happens that certain maths seem to model actual reality, and that is quite handy-- but I've heard it said, that math only ever proves math. Math Models of reality are always just approximations. Yes-- some are quite good approximations, but still.
My view is that math is a very good *language*. it is a *formal* language, so it helps us keep extraneous assumptions in view. But it is a very flexible language and can model any number of situations.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But that is different from why we believe what we do with absolute certitude.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
This takes me back to the Prodigy Days, in the 1990's. I had this exact discussion, what is 'math' which arose because someone claimed that "the math proves XXX" when XXX wasn't a mathematical concept. We went around, and someone (me? I do not remember) pointed out that Math was an entirely invented language, based on logic instead of happenstance (as with other speaking languages).
I do love the notion that math is a formalized language, and I take your point that it's never 100%, as there are always Axioms, are there not? (I had to look up that term-- could not remember. Alas, my memory for things isn't what it once was...)
Not only are there axioms, but those axioms are far from 'immediately obvious truths'. Furthermore, we *cannot* know that the axioms are consistent unless we assume some *stronger* set of axioms.
And, we can go further. No matter what system of axioms you have, if it is strong enough to talk about counting numbers, then there *will* be statements that can neither be proved nor disproved. For the standard axiom system for modern math (Zormelo-Frankl with Choice, ZFC), there are many known statements that are not resolved by those axioms.
From my terminology, any possibility of being wrong, if acknowledged, implies some degree of uncertainty. And there is *always* the possibility of being wrong (even in that statement?).
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as absolute certainty...and I am absolutely certain of that.......
As I am that there is
Always good to chat Milton, stay happy and well.
In the end I see humanity will decide there is a God and the purpose was always and oneness in unity in our Diversity. A unity that will build great capacity in knowledge and science.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know I have those because I believe what I believe.
Could my evidence be wrong? I suppose, but it is highly unlikely.
In which case, you don't have *absolute* certainty.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I meant hypothetically speaking it could be wrong.
But I am 100% certain, not that these kinds of exact percentages matter.