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Homosexuality has some virtues, bible-thumping aside.

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Because the virus jumped from chimpanzees to humans in poor, rural, Africa. Medical care was abysmal there, people died inexplicably all the time. Nobody noticed a new disease with no obvious symptoms. You don't actually die from HIV, it's all the infections resulting from a weak or nonexistent immune system.

The first known case in the USA was an airline employee, who spread it across the country in no time. But even then, nobody noticed it. What the CDC noticed was a sudden surge in orders for Pentamidine, drug rarely needed. It was only used for one exotic lung parasite. When it was finally identified the victims were overwhelmingly gay men and addicts, so few people even cared.
More often it was cheered as God Smiting the sinners.

But the fact remains it's still primarily a disease afflicting poor Africa people.
Tom
I also recall epidemiologists noticing a great increase in Kaposi's sarcoma.
Btw, there was a religious aspect to the disease.
God visited it upon gay men as punishment.
But a lesbian announced that their not contracting
AIDS mean that they were God's chosen people.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
For sake of time and really not wanting to get too deep into the OP, ill go with that's my way of saying "Ew, gross" :D
The reason I asked is because, while I would phrase some things differently, the OP has a clear and strong point.
Non-procreative sex has, in general, a huge moral advantage over potentially fertile sex. If the partners in potentially fertile sex are truly willing and able to provide a solid, secure, and loving home that's one thing. But lots of people have otherwise responsible, positive, sex that carries the risk of involving a third person by conceiving a child. Homosex doesn't have that enormous risk.

So, therefore, over all, homosex is the more moral option. On a planet with well over 7 billion people and growing, there's no need for more babies that nobody is planning to take care of. The " Ew, gross" response is decidedly irrational in the modern world.
Tom
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
From what I have read male on male rape is fairly common in gay communities but often under reported due to fear of being outed, not being taken seriously, and sometimes the attitude of police officers toward gay areas. Great example is when one of Jeffrey Dahmers victims escaped, apparently he was visibly bruised, nude, and had a collar around his neck. The victim led them to Dahmer who explained it away and police apparently laughed about it and called it a lover's quarrel and left him there.

Many homsexuals report being molested as children by homosexual men as a reason for their homosexuality.

This last point I think is probably true but for how many who knows.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
This last point I think is probably true but for how many who knows.
Very few, in my experience.
"Discovering" homosex while young, yeah. That happens a lot. And young people are impressionable and malleable psychologically fragile. That's why I'm so opposed to loosening restrictions about age.
Tom
P.s. My "experience" includes a lot of time in confidential support groups. Including being facilitator, at times. I know a lot about gay men and their pasts.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Very few, in my experience.
"Discovering" homosex while young, yeah. That happens a lot. And young people are impressionable and malleable psychologically fragile. That's why I'm so opposed to loosening restrictions about age.
Tom
P.s. My "experience" includes a lot of time in confidential support groups. Including being facilitator, at times. I know a lot about gay men and their pasts.

I've never managed to ask the few homosexuals I've come across but I've always wanted to know about their early experiences.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I've never managed to ask the few homosexuals I've come across but I've always wanted to know about their early experiences.
That's a difficult and time consuming endeavor.

But here's something I can tell you. Among the most psychologically damaged people, "I had very religious parents" comes up a lot more often than "I was sexually abused as a kid."

It's a big part of why I am so vehemently opposed to opinions like found in this thread.
Tom
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
That's a difficult and time consuming endeavor.

But here's something I can tell you. Among the most psychologically damaged people, "I had very religious parents" comes up a lot more often than "I was sexually abused as a kid."

It's a big part of why I am so vehemently opposed to opinions like found in this thread.
Tom

Yes, and I realise it would only be anecdotal. I've never actually looked much into the origins of homosexuality - not that interested really - but I can quite believe that most are born that way. And I can well believe the effects of strict religion doing so much damage. I was fortunate with none of that sort of thing but also in having a very lovely mother as a role model.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
1. homosexual men never rape women as far as I know, I don't think it's likely that that would happen
2. homosexuality can never result in pregnancy (many pregnancies, particularly out of wedlock, are unwanted): even contraceptives can fail
3. because homosexuality can never result in pregnancy in the first place, innocent babies can never get aborted (put to death in the womb) for sexual convenience whenever homosexuality is practiced for sexual fulfillment: virginity/abstinence never provides sexual fulfillment and masturbation might not be as fulfilling as interpersonal sex for some; let's face it, men are horn dogs and must get that load off one way or another
4. it allows grown men and high-school-age boys to fulfill their sexual needs when women and girls would otherwise play hard to get: it takes sexual pressure off girls and women from boys and men, who are almost always the sexual pursuer: often women and girls reject sexual proposals from men and boys out of fear
5. it ensures that underage girls don't get pregnant to the horror of their parents
6. anal intercourse satisfies the male g-spot: for some men, there is no more sexual satisfaction than a sexual relationship with another man; a woman might not cut it for that reason
You're ignoring trans people. I'm a trans guy and I've had gay sex with other men, and I have my "original plumbing". Pregnancy was possible (but I sure as hell wasn't going to let it happen).
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Because the virus jumped from chimpanzees to humans in poor, rural, Africa. Medical care was abysmal there, people died inexplicably all the time. Nobody noticed a new disease with no obvious symptoms. You don't actually die from HIV, it's all the infections resulting from a weak or nonexistent immune system.

The first known case in the USA was an airline employee, who spread it across the country in no time. But even then, nobody noticed it. What the CDC noticed was a sudden surge in orders for Pentamidine, drug rarely needed. It was only used for one exotic lung parasite. When it was finally identified the victims were overwhelmingly gay men and addicts, so few people even cared.
More often it was cheered as God Smiting the sinners.

But the fact remains it's still primarily a disease afflicting poor Africa people.
Tom
That's what I figured
So it seems to me that Aids has been in the world for maybe even 1000 years or more
People just died, and no doctors who could diagnose it as aids until now
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
That's what I figured
So it seems to me that Aids has been in the world for maybe even 1000 years or more
People just died, and no doctors who could diagnose it as aids until now
Not really, some characteristics make it possible to trace back to a mid20th century chimpanzee population. And, at first, it wasn't even an STD. The oldest known case was a nun from Sweden, who spent years as working in a medical clinic for the poor. Most people contracted HIV in medical clinics who didn't have the training and funding to avoid blood born pathogens.
Tom
 

Earthtank

Active Member
Non-procreative sex has, in general, a huge moral advantage over potentially fertile sex.

That's like a vegan saying cannibalism has a huge moral advantage over eating chicken. It's all subjective (in a twisted way)

Homosex doesn't have that enormous risk.

It has its own risks, moral, societal and medical. Probably more when you inject religion in to it. Heck, even without religion you still have people discriminating and being violent against gay people.

So, therefore, over all, homosex is the more moral option.

A statement built on a straw man argument. I am pretty sure there is some kind of name of type of fallacy for that.

The " Ew, gross" response is decidedly irrational in the modern world.

I disagree, given how your entire response is a straw man argument, I am not sure you how can rationally say "Ew, gross" is irrational. What we find gross or not is all subjective, some people eat bugs and raw meat and find it tasty others, find homosexual sex gross. To each their own
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
like a vegan saying cannibalism has a huge moral advantage over eating chicken. It's all subjective (in a twisted way)
Um....
Wut?

In what way does the opinion I expressed resemble that part of your post?
I gave a rational explanation for my opinion.
Sex has risks involved. It's crucial that people who engage use responsibility in their choices.
But homosex doesn't have the risk of unintended pregnancy, with all the problems that causes. Big problems, problems that pose an existential threat to the human race. Too many humans to survive the carrying capacity of the biosphere will result in disasters that could end human civilization.
That's an existential threat.
Humans could die off like the yeast in a wine bottle, because we really aren't much smarter as a group.
Tom
 
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