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danieldemol · Jan 4, 2020

chris baron said:
dating methods don't make any sense. how can they tell if their findings are correct. how do they calibrate their instruments.

scientists are just people, they don't have special powers. i used to have faith in the supernatural powers of science but not anymore. pop science is mostly lies and smokescreens and slight of hand.

They use known rates of radioactive decay to calibrate their instruments.

What instruments do the religious use to say the earth is 6000 years old and how do they calibrate them?

Twilight Hue · Jan 4, 2020

chris baron said:
livescience.com -- don't believe everything you read. just because it is written in a book or on a website it doesn't mean it is true.
does the rock have a date of manufacture on it?
a rock is basically a lump of aggregate sort of like concrete, if i told you that there was a piece of sidewalk that is billions of years just over yonder hill would you believe me?

That's why there is science. You can see for yourself. Anyways welcome to the forum. The more the merrier. :0)

chris baron · Jan 4, 2020

danieldemol said:
They use known rates of radioactive decay to calibrate their instruments.

What instruments do the religious use to say the earth is 6000 years old and how do they calibrate them?

by all appearances the earth is young and was visited by a massive global flood catastrophe 4400 yrs ago. radioactive materials and heavier and unstable elements were probably formed in the earth's crust during this event.

Trailblazer · Jan 4, 2020

chris baron said:
judgment day is all i live for. this world is for trials and hardships the next world is for beholding God's creative excellence unrestrained. compared to the hereafter this world is like a watered down glass of orange juice. you pick up the glass, you are thirsty. you start drinking but there is hardly any taste to it. disappointed wanting better.

I already said welcome on the other thread, but welcome again.

I know all Muslims do not have the same beliefs anymore than all Christians have the same beliefs, but I will be looking forward to hearing your beliefs.

I do not believe in a judgment day the way Christians and Muslims believe in one, but I do believe in an afterlife that will be far, far better than this life. Nevertheless, I live in the present and I try to make the best of this life, especially because I believe that my place in the afterlife will be determined by what I do here. That includes my faith but also my conduct.

Harel13 · Jan 5, 2020

Welcome to the site.

Mock Turtle · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
wizanda told me about this forum so i thought i'd sign up and see what's going on around here.

im a convert to islam. i had a religious conversion experience on the evening of nov 7 2002 and life has not been the same.

God is near. Time is short, There is more to reality than the present.

Is this an affectation - not using capital letters to start a sentence (and missing punctuation) - or is it a conscious revolt against the WEIRD domination of the English language?

Laika · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
wizanda told me about this forum so i thought i'd sign up and see what's going on around here.

im a convert to islam. i had a religious conversion experience on the evening of nov 7 2002 and life has not been the same.

God is near. Time is short, There is more to reality than the present.

Welcome to the forums. I hope you enjoy your time here and are having a pleasant start to 2020.

chris baron · Jan 5, 2020

why are their rainbow colors in the banner of this forum?

Mock Turtle said:
Is this an affectation - not using capital letters to start a sentence (and missing punctuation) - or is it a conscious revolt against the WEIRD domination of the English language?

i started to get in the habit of only capitalizing the word "God". i don't capitalize "I' because it seems egomaniacal to do so

ChristineM · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
there is no such thing as billions of years. there is nothing on the face of the earth that is billions of years old. nothing lasts for billions of years. do you know of anything that can withstand the forces of erosion for billions of years? no.
the earth is young and that means time is not measured in billions of years rather it is measured in millenia and millenia count down to centuries, decades, years, months, weeks and the final hour very quickly.

Energy, is at least 13.8 billion years old. So yes, i know something that old.

Atoms come close in the long-lived charts. He oldest hydrogen atoms just a few hundred thousand years after energy.

Sorry facts contradict your belief but never mind welcome to RF

chris baron · Jan 5, 2020

ChristineM said:
Energy, is at least 13.8 billion years old. So yes, i know something that old.

Atoms come close in the long-lived charts. He oldest hydrogen atoms just a few hundred thousand years after energy.

Sorry facts contradict your belief but never mind welcome to RF

thanks for the welcome. happy new year.

i don't want to come across as being argumentative but all these assertions about billions of years don't make any sense to me. there is nothing on the face of the earth that is billions of years old and nothing can be reliably measured to be billions of years old in part because no one has been around for billions of years. so how can scientists make factual statements asserting that the earth is billions of years old. it just doesn't make sense esp when a "scientist" who is supposed to be a champion of truth and reason makes obviously unfounded assertions professing them to be true.

these are critical matters about the size, age and structure of the world we live in and what humanity's place in it is.

Mock Turtle · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
why are their rainbow colors in the banner of this forum?

All faiths and beliefs welcome? On the other hand, it might be solidarity with various other things.

i started to get in the habit of only capitalizing the word "God". i don't capitalize "I' because it seems egomaniacal to do so

Might be a bad habit, such that if one wants to reach out to others it's probably best to at least get them to read what one writes - rather than them ignoring one.

On the other hand, we all make mistakes in spelling, grammar, and punctuation, and many will just ignore this. One can choose I suppose.

Anyway, welcome to RF.

PS If you have a tendency to ignore science (age of the Earth, etc), then many might tend to ignore what you say.

ChristineM · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
thanks for the welcome. happy new year.

i don't want to come across as being argumentative but all these assertions about billions of years don't make any sense to me. there is nothing on the face of the earth that is billions of years old and nothing can be reliably measured to be billions of years old in part because no one has been around for billions of years. so how can scientists make factual statements asserting that the earth is billions of years old. it just doesn't make sense esp when a "scientist" who is supposed to be a champion of truth and reason makes obviously unfounded assertions professing them to be true.

these are critical matters about the size, age and structure of the world we live in and what humanity's place in it is.

Luckily the age of the earth does not need your approval

The Isua Greenstone Belt stone is 3.7 to 3.8 billion years old
The Zircon in Jack Hills is 4.4 billion years ± 6 million years old.

Perhaps if you learned a little about dating methods rather than dismissing them out of hand because they contradict your belief... You may learn how accurate they are and what the error margin is of each method. You will note the ± 6 million years for the Jack Hills Zircon, its the error margin.

Where possible more then one method is used to verify the result and they are indipendentely checked. So "unfounded" is way out of the ballpark.

Jayhawker Soule · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
wizanda told me about this forum so i thought i'd sign up and see what's going on around here.

im a convert to islam. i had a religious conversion experience on the evening of nov 7 2002 and life has not been the same.

God is near. Time is short, There is more to reality than the present.

Salaam/Shalom and welcome.

chris baron · Jan 5, 2020

ChristineM said:
Luckily the age of the earth does not need your approval

The Isua Greenstone Belt stone is 3.7 to 3.8 billion years old
The Zircon in Jack Hills is 4.4 billion years ± 6 million years old.

Perhaps if you learned a little about dating methods rather than dismissing them out of hand because they contradict your belief... You may learn how accurate they are and what the error margin is of each method. You will note the ± 6 million years for the Jack Hills Zircon, its the error margin.

Where possible more then one method is used to verify the result and they are indipendentely checked. So "unfounded" is way out of the ballpark.

prove that those stones are that old

a 4 billion year old rock is impossible. if an unstable heavy element decays at a specific rate it doesnt mean that it always decayed at that rate and it is not logical to assume that the daughter elements found in a sample are all the consequence of the decay of the parent element.
if a glass of ice melts at a certain rate when the room is at a certain temperature can you reliably judge how long it was since the glass came out of the freezer? maybe not all the water was frozen to begin with, maybe the temperature of the room wasn't constant and how long was the glass in the freezer to begin with.

im not smarter than you, im sure that what i say is perfectly rational.

i guess we all have a job to do for someone.

ChristineM · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
prove that those stones are that old

a 4 billion year old rock is impossible. if an unstable heavy element decays at a specific rate it doesnt mean that it always decayed at that rate and it is not logical to assume that the daughter elements found in a sample are all the consequence of the decay of the parent element.
if a glass of ice melts at a certain rate when the room is at a certain temperature can you reliably judge how long it was since the glass came out of the freezer? maybe not all the water was frozen to begin with, maybe the temperature of the room wasn't constant and how long was the glass in the freezer to begin with.

im not smarter than you, im sure that what i say is perfectly rational.

i guess we all have a job to do for someone.

After you prove the Qur'an is accurate and Allah actually exists. What? You cant, wow.

Oh look, evidence
http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~valley/zircons/Wilde2001Nature.pdf
Oh look, more evidence
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/10/14/1517557112.full.pdf
Oh look, even more evidence
Zircons Are Forever (updated 2005)

So. No, not impossible, simply against your faith, but as i said, your approval is not needed.

And maybe the freezer wasn't plugged in and maybe it wasn't a freezer at all. You have a lot of maybes, about ice, zircon is not ice

chris baron · Jan 5, 2020

ChristineM said:
After you prove the Qur'an is accurate and Allah actually exists. What? You cant, wow.

Oh look, evidence
http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~valley/zircons/Wilde2001Nature.pdf
Oh look, more evidence
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/10/14/1517557112.full.pdf
Oh look, even more evidence
Zircons Are Forever (updated 2005)

So. No, not impossible, simply against your faith, but as i said, your approval is not needed.

And maybe the freezer wasn't plugged in and maybe it wasn't a freezer at all. You have a lot of maybes, about ice, zircon is not ice

sure boss whatever you say. there is nothing miraculous about creation. creation is mundane, trivial, simple, easily explained. no God necessary. good luck with that.

ChristineM · Jan 5, 2020

chris baron said:
sure boss whatever you say. there is nothing miraculous about creation. creation is mundane, trivial, simple, easily explained. no God necessary. good luck with that.

Correct, it seems you are saying the several hypothesis of how the BB occured are useless because they cannot be proven and you dont (or dont want) to understand them anyway so you would rather say "god did it" because it cannot be proven.

I think you are going to enjoy RF ;-)

chris baron · Jan 5, 2020

yeah i know your types. good luck.

ChristineM said:
Correct, it seems you are saying the several hypothesis of how the BB occured are useless because they cannot be proven and you dont (or dont want) to understand them anyway so you would rather say "god did it" because it cannot be proven.

I think you are going to enjoy RF ;-)

some people just don't like the idea that God is greater than they are

Wurlitzer Oz · Jan 5, 2020

Welcome! Nice jumper on that profile pic.

chris baron · Jan 5, 2020

Wurlitzer Oz said:
Welcome! Nice jumper on that profile pic.

thanks it's super warm!!

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