Before any evidence presented can be measured, the big question must first be answered. We can't put the cart before the horse. What evidence does the Bab present that demonstrates that god exists?
I am not sure if you meant to say Baha’u’llah but no matter, as the Bab and Baha’u’llah were the Twin Manifestations, and both are important. The Bab came to prepare the way for Baha’u’llah, his name means “Gate” in Persian, just as John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. The difference is that Baha’is believe that the Bab was a Manifestation of God in His own right, whereas John the Baptist was just a man. So the Bab and Baha’u’llah both had a human and a divine nature.
Anyhow, the evidence that indicates that God exists is their Persons, the lives, the missions and the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah. That is not proof but it is evidence, the best evidence that humanity has ever had as far as I am concerned, partly because the history of their lives and missions is verifiable and their scriptures are authentic, since they exist in the original handwriting.
Really? Looking at the religions of old are the thing that steered me towards atheism. When it boils down to it, their inconsistencies are just too great to ignore. Religions that claim ultimate authority or the ability to describe reality and fall short just aren't reliable. Every single religion falls short that I've looked into in some way. They just appear to be written works of man.
What I think you need to understand is that the religions of the past no longer exist in their original form. They have been changed so much by men that they are in effect religions of man. Baha’u’llah wrote
“Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.” Gleanings, p. 171
That said, there are beautiful things written. There are timeless truths that shed light on humanity and the world we live in. Those truths are self evident, though. There doesn't need to be an ultimate truth to shed light on those things -just a bit of wisdom.
I fully agree with that, the spiritual truths of all the religions are timeless, they are eternal, and this is a Baha’i teaching.
As for religions not being revealed, what made you draw that conclusion? If those religious teachings aren't religious at all, what are they? What separates Hinduism from, say, Heathenry? They share gods with the same roots, they share certain concepts, and their traditions are rooted in the same traditions practiced since prehistory. When did Hinduism go from illigitimate, to legitimate?
It would be really difficult to unravel all of this, thus I do not even try to. I live fully in the present, not in the past or the future. I do not see the need to look at the older religions, especially because I believe that time is short, given the present condition of the world.
Why does god desire people to believe in him without proof? What is there to be gained by that?
God does not gain anything because God does not need anything; humans are the one who gain something. If we had proof that would be too easy because then we would not have to have any faith and we would not have to make any effort to maintain our faith. Faith is a good thing, as long as we also have evidence. Isn’t it good to have faith in one’s spouse that they will never let you down? But of course if there is a track record you can believe that because there is evidence. It is no different with the Manifestations of God, they have a track record. Otherwise it would be completely naïve and foolish to believe in them. Jesus said to beware of false prophets and there are certain dead giveaways that a prophet is false. One of those is that he exalts himself, considering himself equal to God, for example. There are many others, but there are also many indicators of a true prophet.
I guess I have a hard time dismissing the religions of the past because everything we do is rooted in them, and they are windows into the ways we think. If they are proven false as factual, and modern religions require using them as a foundation, how do modern religions not face the same scrutiny that dismantled the religions of the past? How can one assume that major claims made by them, such as the existance of god, are true when the other things touted by them were obviously not.
I understand what you are saying and you make a valid point. I am kind of different from most Baha’is because I had no religious background prior to becoming a Baha’i and I never studied history or older religions. Then later I just did not have the time. Yes, the older religions were required as a foundation, since each new religion builds on the religion that came before. That made me think of a book you might like that explains some of this and it is free to read online.
The Heart of the Gospel is a book that was written by a Christian clergyman who resigned his orders after 40 years to become a Baha’i. It explains how the Bible fits into history. The same author also wrote
Christ and Baha'u'llah which is a book that explains the relationship between Christ and Baha’u’llah and how Muhammad fits into the picture:
Correction: All the things I cited were done by man only because they thought god wanted them to do it. God didn't do it himself, but man did thinking they were doing god's will.
Yes, I absolutely agree with that and the reason it happened that way was because of the misinterpretation of scripture. That is a big subject we can discuss later if you want.
For a god that relies on messengers and has a generally hands off approach in dealing with people, that seemed like a logical conclusion for those folks to have made. As for if god commanded those things, many of those things were done by the prophets themselves in the name of their god. Prophets like David, Solomon, and Moses.
Again, I am at a loss because I do not know the Bible like you apparently do, so I do not know what those prophets commanded. Can you give me some examples?
Hmmm. Why then use the past as a foundation, but turn a blind eye to it when it doesn't add up? It makes it difficult to create something new and unblemished when it relies on the mythologies of the past to propell itself forward.
I agree now that you have explained why you think this way and that is why I recommended you read those books above, which are pretty short. They will at least help you understand the Baha’i perspective and how the past religions fit into the whole picture.
How does the Bab avoid the standards and baggage of the other past religions? He can't if he uses them to justify his position as the next messenger of god. One's foundations aren't so easily dismissed. That ultimately seems to be the problem for me, in regards to religion. That foundation eventually becomes a millstone around one's neck. It's a very confining and limiting thing, I find.
The Bab and Baha’u’llah are not responsible for what happened
in and to the older religions. They both brought new revelations from God. The problem is that most people cannot look at the new without carrying around all the old baggage. I was fortunate because I did not have any, and that is probably the main reason I was almost immediately able to recognize that Baha’i Faith was the truth from God; no confirmation bias.