Ahaha. How much respect do you expect Israel to have for Trump?
Heck, even Americans have a hard time attempting the feat.
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Is Trump Trying to Get Us into War to Get Reelected?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Heck, even Americans have a hard time attempting the feat.
Of course he is. It's a proven strategy, and it takes people's focus off whatever they were concerned about, in favour of whatever the "dear leader" wants them to be concerned about.
It's clear to me there's enough evidence, if only those involved could be forced to testify, that the impeachment articles are real. The Trump team knows this, too. They pretend otherwise, but if there were a single, solitary person or document on the list that the Democrats wish to be considered in the Senate trial that were exculpatory, it would have been framed in gold, trumpeted around the world, and yielded up in an instant. Since this has not happened, it is obvious that the opposite is true -- the evidence would prove what is already known. This is scary to Trump and his Republican sycophants and butt-lickers.
And when POTUS pursues an agenda in the interests of other nations, and contrary to the interest of his own, is that not treasonable?
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The light begins to shine...
Shad
Veteran Member
Your solution acts like it.
Again Trump called off multiple strikes already.
Again you overlook Iran's own actions in the present to harp on something from the 50s. Now try your idea of "history" again.
Efforts in this case are a two way street. Iran isn't willing.
Not always.
The US didn't supply those weapons.
Those are different governments. Do note the US didn't overthrow the Shah ergo your hyperbole misses it's mark as you ignore why each new nation-state is changed.
Nope as Iran wants the weapons so it's own actions do not result in strikes against Iran. You are babbling propaganda acting like Iran has done nothing to justify attacks by other nations.
Except for the fact that Iran denied it wanted nukes in the media and by treaty.
I said you whined after I made my argument. One which you never actually addressed. Instead you go right back to the script about the 50s and ignore anything else from that point on if it doesn't help your bias.
A different government in Iran is required not a change in US efforts.
I am pointing out how easy your propaganda is shot down and how Iran has not changed itself. Multiple strikes have been called off by Trump already. At this time with the current Iranian government military strikes are the only option as change must come from Iran itself.
Yet development is still active and Iran has threatened to leave any agreement it pays lip service too. You are also assuming war was an major option. Ergo you are making stuff up in your head then pretending like it is true.
Nope as Iran has no chance to win thus will not fight a war. The US must invade for there to be a war otherwise the status quo will continue.Strike, counter strike, /repeat
You need to look at modern events instead of going back to the 50s every time I point out Iran's own actions merit such responses. Perhaps you need to look at your own naive posts that only use a minor part of history while ignoring everything else that happens. An Iranian General that is responsible for attacks upon Iraqis and Americans yet you ignore that going right back to the whining about the 50s. 1950 America didn't force 2020 Iran to conduct terrorist attacks. Try again
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
That sounds like a major conspiracy theory
Sadly, I am, for many years, 100% convinced that this 1 is real
Altfish
Veteran Member
I see the Tory poodles in the UK are backing trump or just 'going missing'.
Britain 'on same page' as US over Suleimani killing, says Raab
Boris Johnson fails to return to work from luxury Caribbean holiday despite looming threat of Iran war
...expect a terror attack in UK soon.
Britain 'on same page' as US over Suleimani killing, says Raab
Boris Johnson fails to return to work from luxury Caribbean holiday despite looming threat of Iran war
...expect a terror attack in UK soon.
Shad
Veteran Member
Fearmongering then complaining that Boris does not follow said fearmongering.
Terrorism is a part of every day life in a major city -Mayor of London (not a direct quote)
Altfish
Veteran Member
Not fearmongering at all. Why has Johnson (as a man of the people) not spoken?
PureX
Veteran Member
The facts are all around us, for anyone with willingness to recognize.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Complaining of whining in an debate concerning the historical ramifications of current events? Yawn.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
That is true
But if this reality really sinks in, it means the world is more sick than I can imagine
Especially the ones in charge and ruling the world are most sick of all
And this (what and how you described it) being a fact, the world can only run down into disaster
All conspiracy theories, I come across, are nothing compared to the craziness of this non-conspiracy Reality
I rather wished the one you mention was a conspiracy theory and all the others were for real
Because none of the 'real' conspiracy theories is as bad and foul as this non-conspiracy Reality
PureX
Veteran Member
It's not the world that's sick, it's humanity. We would be just another integrated aspect of nature except that we became cognitive, and imaginative, and thereby semi-self-aware, yet not imaginative and self-aware enough to gain practical control over our imagination and cognition. And yet too cognitive and imaginative to simply act according to the natural program that generated us. So that we're trapped in a kind of unreality, between 'what is', and what we imagine 'is' to be. Between what we are, and what we imagine ourselves as being. And there's a kind of perpetual dishonesty involved that is very difficult for us to see though, around, or past.
We were designed by nature to be a collective species; to survive and thrive by living together in community and cooperation. But in our minds we imagine ourselves to be autonomous beings, with "free will", and the divine right of self-determination. So that every time we try to live together in peace, prosperity, and harmony, we ruin it for ourselves by acting selfishly. By seeing our fellow humans as our competitors rather than our allies. And this has been the ongoing story of humanity from the very beginning. We just can't or won't see ourselves for what we actually are. And that delusion/dishonesty is going to destroy us, eventually. Unless we somehow find a way to overcome it.
It is a kind of collective insanity.
Yes, but to recognize it is the necessary first step to finally addressing it.
That's because you & have different values & goals.
For me, it's about pursuing peace rather than vengeance.
I'm astounded at this common disregard for the lives of others.
And that is to his credit.
But we aren't out of the woods yet.
The election looms. His winning a 2nd term isn't threatened yet.
A strong Dem contender might weaken his sense of restraint.
One might say you're "harping" on that singular item from my list
of Ameristanian wrongs against Iran so as to deflect from the others.
If Iran had done to us what we'd done to them, we'd be gutting &
filleting every man, woman, & child in Iran.
Here is another area where you & I differ greatly.....
I see our responsibility as being to conduct ourselves in a manner
which encourages them to be peaceful. But you simplistically brand
them as guilty...they must submit or suffer our righteous vengeance.
That's Old Testament thinking which Ameristan should abandon.
Aye, there was a brief respite during Obama's reign.
But this doesn't make Ameristan safe for Iran.
We're unreliable as a country because regimes change
every 4 or 8 years, & policies become up-ended.
Trump decided to bargain with the threat of war as
a negotiating ploy. If things don't proceed as he wants,
or if there's a trigger for increased violence, will egos
involved escalate things to war?
I've no trust that either Trump or Iran's theocracy will resist
personal animosity igniting war, for both have their mighty
god on their side.
United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia
This makes no sense.
Clarify?
Since you've invited opining about each other's propaganda,
I offer my impression of yours.....
You see pure good vs evil....us vs them...God's warriors vs Satan's minions.
They're the evil ones...the infidels who rise against the Judeo-Christian God.
They stand opposed to Ameristan The Beautiful, The Just, The Righteous.
You care not for those low ignorant savage people of a false & dirty religion.
They've no right to autonomy...no right to resist our dicates, or to self defense.
They're unworthy. They must die if they dare disobey or disrespect us.
You make many points in long posts....some clear...some not.
So instead of descending into empty insults, you might try being
civil, clear, & concise. It will yield better results for us all.
Regime change as a foreign policy hasn't served us well.
Remember, this very tactic is the one which set in motion events
which resulted in the problems we now face.
You want to do the same thing, only with more violence, & expect
different results?
The rest of your post is repetitive, so it's already been addressed.
Shad
Veteran Member
No it lets Iran do what it wants because you are shortsighted yet believe you are not.
As I am with your do nothing solutions which will still cost lives. Lives you seem to not acknowledge because they are not American.
They could but then they would have to acknowledge that my point is spot on as you run back to all the time. Ergo you have conceded ground by that comment.
You think Iran is going to stop because America is nice. Hilarious and naive.
Wrong. Iran never stopped funding rebels in Yemen, Assad, Hezbollah, Shia militias in Iran, etc. You just thought it did because the media did cover for Obama lest their hero look like the fool he is.
Trump is responding to Iran not the other way around.
Yet you want to play nice even saying this.
The Iranian Islamic Republic is not the continuation of the Socialist government of the 40s and 50s. The Socialist government in Iran was against the Mullahs and theocratic. The whole "but the coup" is propaganda the theocratic use to drum up sympathy from low info people like yourself.
Since you've invited opining about each other's propaganda,
I offer my impression of yours.....
You see pure good vs evil....us vs them...God's warriors vs Satan's minions. [/quote]
I never said America was some hero on a white horse. You are projecting a fiction from your head. The reset of your point collapses due being the fiction it is.
Calling your points naive isn't an insult.
I never said regime change due to an external force. I am talking about internal change from Iranians themselves.
You never really addressed any of my points I actually made. You addressed a fiction from your head.
Shad
Veteran Member
Whining about something that happened to an anti-theocratic Socialist government while all pretending that the current government is anything like it is absurd. The coup helped the Islamist nor was it directed at them. It would be like modern Germany freaking out that America is going to invade because it did in the 40s.
Shad
Veteran Member
As he isn't freaking out about Iran thinking there is going to be a war like you are. Just as I said in my post before.
You're correct, but not in the way you believe.
I favor changing what Iran wants.
We'd do this by changing our behavior, & negotiation.
My "shortsighted" approach is all about the long term.
Yours is reactive, mine is proactive.
Shad
Veteran Member
You still ignoring Iran's own actions and assuming wants here.
Long term your solution is defeatist as you still ignore Iran's own actions not caused by America all while assuming Iran will be less involved in ME politics because America is "nice". That is called a fantasy.
Mine is not reactive at all as I never proposed much of anything but putting forward Iran itself must change first.