shmogie
Well-Known Member
Because God is universal. I believe that the earth is an anomaly related to intelligent beings and their relationship to God. We are unique in the universe in that respect. My opinion
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Other planets Christians and other religions
- Thread starter Riders
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A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
It is pretty obvious, actually, if you are at all interested in evidence. There has been plenty of evidence indicating that people do not simply come up with the idea of "Jesus Christ" on their own. According to evidence - entire civilizations have come and gone without a mention of "Jesus Christ" or anyone resembling him. Many other cultures fabricated their own religions (which you simply ignore, by the way) - most of them not including "Jesus Christ." There are even tribes that have been found in modern times that have existed for centuries without even a god concept among them to begin with. Given the plethora of evidence that indicates that living beings do not know anything of "Jesus Christ" until they are informed (which is why the leaders of Christianity send out missionaries in the first place, let's not forget), how could you possibly conclude that beings on an entirely different planet may have come to the same conclusions as humans on Earth, be practicing the same religion, and worshiping the same, exact individual? Let's also please remember that the tales tell of Jesus being born ON EARTH, specifically. Thus you would also be expecting that the alien life-forms on another planet would have advance knowledge of Earth.
It's just preposterous. And the fact that you can't see that says quite a lot about your adherence to facts, evidence, logic and sanity.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
When I was 10 I told my mother something similar.
Of course I never thought of the possibility of aliens at that time (this type of films I did not see, and no video games back then)
I was not much aware of other planets either, so I kept my example to a place furthest away from home
I said: "What about people who lived in New Zealand, 2000 years ago and never heard about Jesus?"
Anyway it would be unfair of a just God, to grant salvation only to a group who believed in Jesus and not to groups who believed differently
shmogie
Well-Known Member
LOL ! My facts regarding this issue are found in the Bible. As an apparent atheist, your natural philosophy position will always be based in naturalism. So, your response is perfectly predictable. You are totally limited in what you can "see" by glasses you choose to wear.
Since God created the universe ( prove He didn't) He has a vested interest in His creation, and the created beings within His creation.
The earth and it's inhabitants are an anomaly in the universe, created beings who willfully separated themselves from the creator.
Since Christ IS the creator, logic dictates that He would be known by the intelligent beings He created throughout the universe.
You use the term evidence, what you really mean is what you determine to be evidence. Sorry, but you do not control the evidence in this regard. You do not determine what is admissable for each individual.
Your philosophy has some inescapable conclusions. You are an insignificant clump of living cells that came from you know not where, on a bit of dust in a universe that came from you know not where. After you live your oh so brief insignificant life you die, and are eternally oblivious. You are welcome to your natural philosophy.
On the other hand, what you would call the supernatural offers limitless possibilities for each person. They are not insignificant, they need not be nothing from birth to death and ever after, they need not be walking dead people as you are and as your philosophy condemns them to be.
No wonder you attack me, I have hope, and you have nothing. Your ancestry is water runoff from rocks and chemical slime, mine is from lovingly created people.
You, and others of your ilk hover about religious forums to attack those who believe, because you cannot. You are angry because we believe, and you cannot. You think you see, but you are blind. Self condemned to your appointment with oblivion.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yes, I agree that this amounts to quite some ignorance to make such claims
(sometimes I also have such incoherent thoughts)
I see it as "pretending to know something about some place of which you know nothing"
I see it as "pretending to know something about God"
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
This is your first problem, right here. What dictates that The Bible is a valid authority on anything? God? How do we know that God exists? The Bible? Do you see the circular reasoning being employed here?
All of us can "see" exactly the things I listed as evidence. The first-hand accounts and research reports of people who found the tribes who had no God concept... and we can ALL TOO EASILY see the missionaries being sent throughout the world to tell people about Christ who otherwise wouldn't have known. Proof positive that the beings of the universe DO NOT HAVE INTRINSIC KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST. Do not delude yourself - it is unbecoming ANYONE.
And duh - if your religious leaders truly believed that people intrinsically obtain this knowledge from "the universe" (or whatever you're trying to attribute this to) then they WOULDN'T SEND THOSE MISSIONARIES. There would be no point. Logic... use it.
I don't have to prove that He didn't. I don't. I just don't believe you until YOU prove that He did. That's how this works. Not whatever idiotic way you want it to work by trying to get me to prove something I am not even claiming. I don't claim God didn't create the universe. I am telling you that there is no reason to believe and behave as if He did. I see no reason... so tell me the reason. If it is so obvious and so logical, then what is the reason I should believe it? DO YOU HAVE ANY COMPELLING EVIDENCE?
This assertion has no basis in reality as far as I can tell, and I know for a fact you have no evidence that would compel anyone who was skeptical of your claims.
Absolutely untrue. Pretend humans create an AI digital machine/computer. Does the AI necessarily know of its creator? Wouldn't it need to be informed? There is ZERO "logic" in your statement above. ZERO. God/Jesus/whoever WOULD NOT HAVE TO inform His creations of the creator. It is just asinine for you to claim such is some base of "logic." You prove yourself to have precisely zero understanding of logic, rationality, critical thinking, etc. with statements like this one. Not that I am surprised in the least, mind you. People who fail to utilize these things properly are all too common. But you're a freaking poster-boy.
No... what I have been talking about this whole time are things that can be DISPLAYED TO ANYONE. Inter-subjectively verifiable:
"Look at these ancient texts written by cultures long, long ago - they contain fantastical stories of characters named Zeus and Hera, Athena and Hermes. Aren't these interesting?"
"Look at this report written by a team of anthropologists who found a tribe that has had absolutely no god concepts for hundreds of years."
"Look at these missionaries sending people all around the world in order to spread knowledge of Jesus."
You just don't like these things, because they are inconvenient facts. That's what's going on here. Meanwhile you have provided NOTHING THAT IS INTER-SUBJECTIVELY VERIFIABLE. Not like I have. And so, how am I to verify what you're providing to me as evidence? You CAN verify the things I have provided. I CANNOT verify "The Bible" or "The Existence of God because look at His handiwork." Don't be dumb.
You're absolutely right - I can't force you to accept the evidence. Which is PRECISELY why I am here, challenging you with REAL evidence against your claims, so that I can out you and your beliefs for the farce that you are. And I will stay on you (metaphiorical "you" here - referring to all theists who can't provide a single piece of inter-subjectively verifiable evidence), like flies on dog-crap, until I feel sufficient enough people recognize you for what I believe you to be, or I die, whichever comes first.
And? Can you tell me an OBJECTIVE reason that this scenario is "wrong?" I am quite sure that all you have as EXCUSES for requiring this as part of your beliefs is ARROGANCE AND CONCEIT. You can't even imagine the universe without yourself in it. Good for you. You should go marry a mirror.
So hilarious... this statement of yours is just SO ironic. Oh man... I am having trouble even continuing to type the sense of hilarity is just so strong. Oh crap. Let me compose myself. Whew...
The reason you say this is because you understand that the "supernatural" is only limited by THE IMAGINATION of the people who imagine anything about it. That's basically what you are saying here. Each person is able to dream up WHATEVER THEY WANT "the supernatural" to be. You have basically said this. You know what that makes "the supernatural?" Make believe. The product of imagination. It offers you NOTHING real. Only "whatever it means to you," or "whatever you want to imagine." Which is why many people consider your beliefs a joke.
All you have is hope. That's all. And if that is ever taken away from you, you'll be devastated. I, on the other hand? I'm strong regardless what the real circumstances turn out to be. I've got this - no matter the realities I am ultimately presented with. You? You're scared out of your mind unless you have a nice fiction to rest your head in. Ridiculous (which is why I am ridiculing you, by the way).
Yes, your ideas are under attack - make no mistake about it.
Nope. I am angry because you (and others like you) continue to try and drag people into your world of make-believe, and rob from them the chance to stand strong on their own, with the knowledge that if they want to have importance to their lives, they must necessarily work on that themselves. You work against the progress of true, useful knowledge and advocate instead for fairy tales. You induct people into the same cloudy institution of poor evidential standards, and make them contemplate that anything can be true if they just believe hard enough.
I don't see... but I know you don't either. That's the real truth to be learned here. And what did oblivion ever do to you? Why are you so loathe to contemplate that as the ultimate end? Can it be anything other than conceit? I ask you.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Seem quite logical conclusions to me
(I came to the conclusion that I don't know so much about the big Universe. So I better abstain from making bold claims about what/how things are going on outside my tiny environment)
Dave Watchman
Active Member
I think you're making a point Riders, IF we find life on other planets.
I doubt we will.
I doubt we have that much time remaining.
I also heard people ask if we colonize Mars with a few thousand people, and Christ comes back, would they be raptured too?
Would humans be resurrected off an alien planet?
I think that's got to be it.
We are IT.
Because there's only one Lucifer.
If there were another world, would there be another Devil?
I think there's something going on here that involves more than just us that we don't fully understand.
God must be demonstrating to the angels something about the long term effects of sin and evil.
And maybe the redeemed part of humanity will eventually help to replace the third of the angelic community that was taken by the Dragon's tail.
"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven,
and did cast them to the earth - Revelation 12:4
and did cast them to the earth - Revelation 12:4
Prove he did.
randix
Member
As far as we know (if the Bible and Christianity are to be believed), terrestrial humans are the only species that requires "saving." We are special in the eyes of our Creator. So if alien life does happen to exist, which the Bible doesn't mention, it doesn't matter, just like all the other species we share this planet with don't matter, even the ones we closely resemble anatomically and genetically. (Except that we can care for them and eat them if we want.)
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None of those need apply. That’s thinking from a monotheistic POV, specifically Abrahamic. Polytheistic and other non-monotheistic religions have no problem. They largely don’t believe that their way is the only way or the only right way. I say that from experience as a Hindu, as well as some experience with Heathenry.
Hinduism largely doesn’t know or care who or what created the universe, or how. The Rig Veda says this in the Nasadiya Sukta, aka the Hymn of Creation. The point is that we are here, and our goal is to live the best life we can to achieve liberation from the cycle of rebirth. In that regard Hinduism does not say it is the only way to achieve liberation. Or that we are unique, special, God-chosen, any more than a Tasmanian Devil. While my intellect, emotions, goals and desires in this physical realm may be more highly developed than a Tasmanian Devil, our ātma, “soul”, if you will, is identical. Which I might add, precludes the idea of a state of sin and need for a savior.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
I don't think our Church claims such things. Some Christians think our version of truth is superior but not as the only ones having the truth ... I see no problem with life on other planets. Aliens may or may not have information about the one we know as Jesus Christ. They may have met him as an entity before and after he was Jesus of Nazareth - he became Jesus when he was born on Earth... Theoretically it's possible.
How is that obvious? by what I know, Bible leaves possibility for life on other planets/dimensions.
I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.
John 10:16
I believe what the Bible tells and I don’t think it as a religion. However, I don’t believe there is other than angelic/demonic life, in addition to life on earth. But, if there would be, I believe this rule is valid for all:
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
It is possible that person who has not heard of Jesus, can be counted righteous by this:
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Interesting question. The Catholic answer is the concept of Limbo ...
I would rather say God has his own ways to reach anyone. Maybe even eventual universal salvation.
This
Unless it happened to be Jesus's home planet.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
"This," what?
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Since the Catholic Church and their "priests" made frontpage news in recent years I know for sure that their concepts are bogus (but Limbo seems the proper place for these priests)
For sure the God who is defined as:
Omniscient
Omnipresent
Omnipotent
"there is no 'obviously' about anything, when we find life on other planets."
InChrist
Free4ever
John 10:16 is referring to those besides the Jews who were the first Christians, the Gentiles who would hear Jesus’ words and become His followers. I don’t believe there is anything in the scriptures to validate the idea it refers to inhabitants on other planets.