The Resurrection: Why does it matter?

wizanda · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
it was posted for me to learn what other people believe about the resurrection

Stop pretending to your self, if you wanted to understand it, you'd look it up on Wikipedia, and read the texts; you're bullying Christians & Islam not to follow their texts.

I'd explain the resurrection in detail, yet I already know your typical answers, as you're not interested in a debate about topics; you're literally just proselytising, and will push alternative contexts that are not actually stipulated in the original texts, thus it isn't a debate about the topic.

Trailblazer said:
Baha'is do not reject anyone's texts, we just do not interpret them the way you do. Then again, neither do most Christians or Jews.

Stop bullying everyone with this gang mentality, it is sickening on here; it is literally ganging up on other religions, and just overwriting their texts.

In my opinion.

Trailblazer · Jan 3, 2020

Aupmanyav said:
No problem about time. I am retired, I have time on my hands. And Delhi does not have a beach. We are about 1500 kms from the beach. And it is not an inconsequental lie. It is a matter of life and death. I need to know.
Rise where, up in clouds?

What do you need to know? I thought you were a confirmed atheist?
What I said about the beach was just a figure of speech; it means you might as well be off having fun somewhere if you do not believe in God.

According to my beliefs, the only thing that rises when we die is our soul. We say rises but we really do not mean that it goes up into the sky; it means that it goes into another dimension, a spiritual dimension which is a higher level than earth which is why we say it ascends.

Aupmanyav said:
But either you can be right or they can be right. Both them and you cannot be right.I have not come across any evidence provided by Bahais, on the other hand you say that there was no Maid of Heaven, so that little proof also is not tenable any more.

No, both of our interpretations of certain scriptures cannot be right; people have to choose which to believe.
Please forget what I said about the Maid of Heaven. I am no expert Baha'i because I do not have time to read everything.

wizanda · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
I am no expert Baha'i because I do not have time to read everything.

Honestly I'm trying to help you by telling you go read religious texts, it is very blatant your not educated on these topics, and instead of study them, you argue we're all wrong for accepting things in the texts.

The resurrection was prophesied to show that God can bring people back from the dead, as a sign that when Betelgeuse blows up soon, and everyone dies; then 3 days later God resurrects the Enlightened Saints who've accepted it.

In my opinion.

Spirit of Light · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
It seems to me that the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a matter of great concern for both Christians and atheists. Since there has been so much discussion about the resurrection on this forum, I thought now would be a good time to ask:

1. Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?
2. What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?
3. Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?
4. Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

I might be sorry I posted this thread; I often am, after I get a boatload of posts to respond to, but I am just dying to find out why because I do not understand why. There has to be a reason or reasons and I need to know what they are. I probably won’t agree with everyone, but at least I will know what others think or believe.

I could just blow it off as something I do not believe ever happened and go with the Baha’i explanation of what the resurrection means, but this is too important of an issue to sweep under the carpet. Besides, I find the Baha’i explanation wanting because it does not really explain why so much was written about the resurrection in the NT, as if it really happened.

In my understanding.
Your question is maybe most important to the Christian people and to Jews since it is written in their scripture that Jesus will come again (Jews maybe believe it will be the first time? Not sure there)

But to the rest of us who do not follow Christianity or Jewish faith would have no need to think about it since (in my understanding) Jesus does not come for other than his own people, those who believe in him as Messiah.
I can not see why Atheists should be so interested in the coming of Jesus since they do not believe in him or his teaching.

But if it should happen, it would be wise for the rest of the people to pay attention because if Jesus does come back, it means that the end of time is near (I believe the end time is near even before Jesus would show up)

Trailblazer · Jan 3, 2020

wizanda said:
Honestly I'm trying to help you by telling you go read religious texts, it is very blatant your not educated on these topics, and instead of study them, you argue we're all wrong for accepting things in the texts.

I do not even have time to read Baha'i texts, so I am not going to read the older texts.
Nobody is all wrong or all right.

wizanda said:
The resurrection was prophesied to show that God can bring people back from the dead

With all due respect, there is no way I will ever believe that dead bodies come back to life.
Imo, there is no reason why God would bring bodies back to life because we are not our body.

wizanda · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
I do not even have time to read Baha'i texts, so I am not going to read the older texts.

You've got lots of time if you stopped wasting it on here bullying others, with topics you don't understand, as you've not read them properly; if you read the religious texts instead, you'd learn far more.

Then ask, and we can have a clear debate from each religious texts; not just some marketing campaign to push Baha'i onto people.

Trailblazer said:
With all due respect, there is no way I will ever believe that dead bodies come back to life.

Well then why ask the question of the thread, as to accept the contexts of the question, we have to accept it happened.

Why not just make a thread, saying 'Resurrection is False', and then debate it; not make a pseudo thread to push an agenda.

Trailblazer said:
Imo, there is no reason why God would bring bodies back to life because we are not our body.

After the Great Tribulation, everyone soon dies globally, only the Enlightened Saints get resurrected after.

Yeshua was a sign unto our people it is possible, and this will happen to all who accept it at the Resurrection of the Dead globally, as the Quran, Hindu, Zoroastrian, and Bible prophesied, etc.

In my opinion.

Trailblazer · Jan 3, 2020

wizanda said:
You've got lots of time if you stopped wasting it on here bullying others, with topics you don't understand, as you've not read them properly, if you read the religious texts instead, you'd learn far more.

You are the one bullying me to read religious texts. I bully nobody.

wizanda said:
Then ask, and we can have a clear debate from each religious texts; not just some marketing campaign to push Baha'i onto people.

I do not want to debate about religious texts, that's your gig.
I have no campaign to push Baha'i. I have no desire or need to.

wizanda said:
Well then why ask the question of the thread, as to accept the contexts of the question, we have to accept it happened.

No, we do not have to accept it happened to wonder why it is important to people who believe it happened.

wizanda said:
Why not just make a thread, saying Resurrection is false, and then debate it; not make a pseudo thread to push an agenda.

I have no agenda. I have the right to believe the resurrection is false but I still want to know why it matters to other people, whether they believe it is true or false.

If you believe it and it matters to you, why not just answer the questions I posed?

wizanda said:
After the Great Tribulation, everyone soon dies globally, only the Enlightened Saints get resurrected after.

Yeshua was a sign unto our people it is possible, and this will happen to all who accept it at the Resurrection of the Dead globally, as the Quran, Hindu, Zoroastrian texts, and Bible prophesied.

You are free to believe that if you want to but I will never believe that dead bodies ever come back to life, nor do I believe in the Great Tribulation that you believe in.

Why can't you have your beliefs and allow me to have my beliefs?

wizanda · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
You are the one bullying me to read religious texts. I bully nobody.

As a theologian of all religion, I'm asking you to read religions, as you are on here accusing each individual religion of being false, when no one told you to do that.

I find you to be bullying individual religions, and have created your own replacement theology; which isn't what Baha'u'llah told people, instead he told people to unite the religions from understanding each.

The idea your reply is looking to accuse me, instead of dealing with the lack of knowledge, shows there are issues; as no logical person would dream to not read the texts they're asking questions about.

Trailblazer said:
I do not want to debate about religious texts, that's your gig.

This is a religious debate forum, and you are debating other religious texts...

Which means literally the only reason you are on here is to proselytize; a debate requires both parties discussing the same topic, you just admitted you're not interested in understanding anything of other religious texts, yet you want to debate they're wrong, and we should all follow your idea of what Baha'i means.

Trailblazer said:
I have the right to believe the resurrection is false but I still want to know why it matters to other people, whether they believe it is true or false.

If you believe it and it matters to you, why not just answer the questions I posed?

We did answer, and as soon as doing it is blatant you just push Baha'i on people; whilst stating their answer is completely false without evidence.

You can believe that a resurrection of the body is completely not possible; yet when you asked within this thread why is it happening, which we can answer from advanced details in many of the world's religious texts...

As you've already just said, you're not interested in reading other religious texts, which means you're not actually interested in the real answer; so why bother asking the question about other religions, other than to push an agenda?

Trailblazer said:
Why can't you have your beliefs and allow me to have my beliefs?

We're all entitled to our beliefs; yet when people are consistently proselytizing, and bullying others not to believe what they do, that isn't allowed.

When something can be shown from religious texts, and someone denies it exists, we're allowed to logically debate where the evidence is to show our case.

I'm happy for everyone to study religious topics, and discuss a topic in detail from it sources; yet when all someone is doing is pushing a cult mentality on people, whilst denying all other religious resources, I find it disingenuous to a root level.

Trailblazer said:
You are free to believe that if you want to but I will never believe that dead bodies ever come back to life, nor do I believe in the Great Tribulation that you believe in.

I do not believe in things, the world's religious texts explain these things; where as an ambassador for God here before Judgement Day, who was shown these things in detail, I accept what is stated in the world's religions, and I find your arguing the world's religions are false.

In my opinion.

Trailblazer · Jan 3, 2020

wizanda said:
As a theologian of all religion, I'm asking you to read religions, as you are on here accusing each individual religion of being false, when no one told you to do that.

You are not asking me to read, you are telling me to read. Show me where I accused any religion of being false. Saying I disagree with a religion is not calling it false. I have a right to disagree on certain points or even the whole religion, just like most people disagree with my religion..

wizanda said:
I find you to be bullying individual religions,

Show me where I bullied any individual religions.

wizanda said:
and have created your own replacement theology; which isn't what Baha'u'llah told people, instead he told people to unite the religions from understanding each.

I did not create any theology; I just believe in the theology of my own religion.

wizanda said:
as no logical person would dream to not read the texts they're asking questions about.

This has nothing to do with logic. It has to do with interest and time.
I am not asking questions about any texts.

wizanda said:
This is a religious debate forum, and you are debating other religious texts...

No, I am not debating other religious texts.

wizanda said:
Which means literally the only reason you are on here is to proselytize;

No it does not mean that. I am here to discuss, not to debate or proselytize.

wizanda said:
a debate requires both parties discussing the same topic, you just admitted you're not interested in understanding anything of other religious texts, yet you want to debate they're wrong, and we should all follow your idea of what Baha'i means.

I do not want to debate anything. I certainly do not want to debate that anyone is wrong, and we should all follow my idea of what Baha'i means.

wizanda said:
We did answer, and as soon as doing it is blatant you just push Baha'i on people; whilst stating their answer is completely false without evidence.

I did not say anything is false, I just said I disagree. I do not need to present evidence because I am not trying to prove anything. All I wanted was opinions.

I never pushed Baha’i. Please keep Baha’i off this thread. That is not what it is for.

wizanda said:
You can believe that a resurrection of the body is completely not possible; yet when you asked within this thread why is it happening, which we can answer from advanced details in many of the world's religious texts...

I did not ask within this thread why is it happening.

Imo, no religious texts prove that anyone ever rose from the dead and they never will.

wizanda said:
As you've already just said, you're not interested in reading other religious texts, which means you're not actually interested in the real answer; so why bother asking the question

I do not want to know what religious texts say, I want to know what other people think

The only answer I wanted was why the resurrection is important to other people, can you read?

The Resurrection: Why does it matter?

It seems to me that the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a matter of great concern for both Christians and atheists. Since there has been so much discussion about the resurrection on this forum, I thought now would be a good time to ask:

1. Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?
2. What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?
3. Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?
4. Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

wizanda said:
We're all entitled to our beliefs; yet when people are consistently proselytizing, and bullying others not to believe what they do, that isn't allowed.

I never did any of that. You are the one doing those things, so that is projection.

wizanda said:
When something can be shown from religious texts, and someone denies it exists, we're allowed to logically debate where the evidence is to show our case.

Go ahead, present your case, but I am not obligated to debate it. I have NO INTEREST in debating with you or anyone else. I know what I believe and I do not need to prove it to anyone else.

wizanda said:
I'm happy for everyone to study religious topics, and discuss a topic in detail from it sources;

I do not want to study religious topics, and discuss a topic in detail from it sources so you will have to find someone else to talk to who wants to do that.

wizanda said:
I do not believe in things, the world's religious texts explain these things, where as an ambassador for God here before Judgement Day, who was shown these things in detail, I accept what is stated in the world's religions, and I find your arguing the world's religions are false.

Now you are an ambassador for God. I am sorry, but I do not believe that.

I never argued that the world’s religions are false. I say they are all true, but according to my own understanding. We all have a right to our own understandings.

pearl · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
I could just blow it off as something I do not believe ever happened and go with the Baha’i explanation of what the resurrection means, but this is too important of an issue to sweep under the carpet. Besides, I find the Baha’i explanation wanting because it does not really explain why so much was written about the resurrection in the NT, as if it really happened.

I think everyone who believes in the Resurrection has a point at which one depiction more than others is what grounds ones faith in the Resurrection. For me it is not the non material body in the appearances, but the events of Pentecost. The Gospel of John is unique in that there are three Passovers within Jesus' ministry. Assuming He preached the same, was the same troublemaking prophet etc., why now, this time was if found necessary to crucify Him? Could the reason be to put an end to the 'movement' once and for all by threatening his followers with the same fate? What gave these same men and women gathered in order to fulfill their religious obligation, now in fear for their lives, meeting the same fate as Jesus, and now enabled, empowered to preach the risen Christ?

wizanda · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
You are not asking me to read, you are telling me to read.

You're arguing against other religions on here; if you not willing to even study their topic, whilst pushing your agenda, this is trolling, bullying, and proselytising.

I'm asking you to have a logical conversation, by understanding the opposing side of the discussion; not just rewriting everyone's religion, including Baha'i from your lack of study.

Trailblazer said:
1. Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?
2. What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?
3. Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?
4. Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

1 - It is prophesied that Christ was to die, and be resurrected in three days; it is a sign unto our people, that the resurrection of the dead will happen for all those who serve the Source of reality.

2 - After the holy fire destroys life on earth, the Source resurrects us back into our bodies; Christ was proof it is possible.

3 - Christianity established by Paul, creates an idea of a death covenant where people die with Christ, and are resurrected to being incorruptible.

Paul is Antichrist's teachings though, and this is bad exegesis on his part, defiling the Bed of Adultery in Isaiah 28:9-21.

4 - Paul established his teachings on the death and resurrection of Christ; which is to prove that people don't listen to Yehoshua, which means the Lord Saves, and Yeshua means Salvation.

We were to pray in his name for the repentance of sin; blood atonement doesn't count, and God has always found it an abomination (Isaiah 66:3-4), which Christ came to end.

In my opinion.

BilliardsBall · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
[snip]

1. Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?
2. What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?
3. Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?
4. Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

1. Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?

*We'd have an authority to tell us about the afterlife.

2. What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?

**Jesus wasn't a "holy ghost" or a myth, but a tangible resurrection, justifying others for eternal life, per the Bible.

3. Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?

**Without it, each of the two dozen NT authors would be lying. The resurrection is in every passage of any length in the NT.

4. Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

**The power that resurrected Christ IS Christianity, and born agains receive of Jesus's power to be changed in Heaven, enabled to live in a utopia, per the Bible. It IS the central fact and doctrine of Christianity.

Brickjectivity · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
Yes, but where are they today?

For this reason I don't think it is a good idea for me to point out where they are today:

I am open to hearing what other people think, but I am required to stop arguing who is right. An argument should not be permitted to exalt itself against the knowledge that is directly from God -- which comes to each person. Its one of the arguments I am willing to make and something I feel is argued by NT writers several times. This is one of the most difficult things to accept, because we all want to agree and all want to verify that we agree. I think that to be of one mind we just have to work together and not always speak what we are thinking.

Trailblazer said:
I do not believe that the gospels are corrupted, and one reason is because Baha'u'llah wrote to the Muslims that they had not been corrupted, since many Muslims believed they had been. I believe that the resurrection stories were not literal, and believers were expected to sort that out. I believe that possibly it was a test given by God.

I guess you mean dying to self and living in Christ. I agree, we can do that in this life, and that is what Jesus enjoined His followers to do, as in John 12:24-26 and Matthew 16:23-26.

Yes. "To live is Christ and to die is gain." This seems to me the meaning of resurrection.

I would enjoy forcing other people to conform to my view, but such pleasure would not advance the gospel. A clever argument is no substitute for a righteous life. If you believe other things than me its pointless for me to worry about your view, and "He who is not against us is for us." If Jesus says this, then so should I. Of course I would rather correct other people who seem to have less of a grasp on the truth. After all pursuit of truth has cost me personally, so why shouldn't I be able to pass it on? I would, but I have learned that is not how the gospel works.

stvdv · Jan 3, 2020

Nowhere Man said:
I doubt it's any concern for atheists.

Nowhere Man said:
It's obvious beyond any shadow of a doubt you cannot ressurect a dead person. I mean actually completely entirely dead. Like dead as a doornail.

"doornail dead" ... that's very dead indeed

If Jesus was normally dead (I mean "not doornail dead" dead), I could believe in resurrection
IF his body was "back to dust", as in cremated, I would find it a "bit" harder to believe in the resurrection

stvdv · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?

Some Religions have verses saying "Blessed are those who believe without having seen"

"Blind belief" is not very easy of course (they might be called Blessed to encourage them)

So maybe it makes it easier for them to believe in Jesus, when they believe Jesus rose from the dead

I mean, believe is all done in the mind. The thoughts need to be "in line" a bit
To make yourself feel comfortable, with thoughts that are seen as crazy by some others

stvdv · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

Maybe Christianity does exist for 2000 years, without the resurrection (after all it is hard to prove this now, 2000 years later)

stvdv · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?

Trailblazer said:
Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?

To follow just an ordinary human being is not so special
It is more special (in the mind) for humans to follow special people

Ordinary people generally don't arise after being declared dead
Someone declared dead coming alive is special in ordinary people's view

So, to me it's easy to understand why "bodily resurrection" is so vital to humans

Audie · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
I do not think anything Paul wrote means that the physical body of Jesus rose from the dead; I believe Christians interpreted what he said incorrectly.

However, if Jesus never actually rose from the dead, what about all the stories about the empty tomb and those who saw the resurrected Jesus walking around, how do you explain those? How and why did they get written into the NT?

Same way you explain other myths legends and lies.
Someone made it up, someone believed them.

See the gold books of Joseph Smith, and the LDS
church.

Audie · Jan 3, 2020

darklydreaming said:
This subject is addressed in detail in 1 Corinthians 15, which is structured chiastically. The entire chapter pivots around the idea expressed in verse 26, that "the last enemy that will be abolished is death." The word for 'death' here is θάνατος (thánatos), which can signify either physical or spiritual death depending on the context; yet since Paul says in verse 21, "For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead," using the Greek ἀνάστασις (anástasis, lit. 'standing up') for 'resurrection,' which specifically refers to a physical resurrection, it seems clear that he is likewise referring to physical death. In the same way, Paul says in verse 4, quoting from a creed which is dated to a few years after Jesus's death, "that He was buried, and that He was raised," and it is obvious here that what was buried is what was also raised; otherwise, the mention of his burial is superfluous.

All of this matters because, as Paul says in verses 13-19, if Christ was not raised from the dead, then one's faith in him is in vain, which is the hope that since he was raised, we may be raised as well, that since he conquered death and sin, we may be granted victory over them as well. Otherwise, Paul says, "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die" (1 Cor. 15:32), and this statement makes little sense if Paul is merely speaking of a spiritual death and a spiritual resurrection. The physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus is the ultimate proof that he was who he said he was and that, having died according to the Scriptures, he did not die in vain.

Saul was a phony.* He hijacked what someone else started,
the way Brigham Young did with LDS.

*see his snake story, for an obvious lie.

Samantha Rinne · Jan 3, 2020

Trailblazer said:
It seems to me that the bodily resurrection of Jesus is a matter of great concern for both Christians and atheists. Since there has been so much discussion about the resurrection on this forum, I thought now would be a good time to ask:

1. Why does it matter so much to so many people if Jesus rose from the dead?
2. What is the significance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus?
3. Why is the bodily resurrection so vital to Christianity?
4. Why couldn’t Christianity exist without the resurrection?

I might be sorry I posted this thread; I often am, after I get a boatload of posts to respond to, but I am just dying to find out why because I do not understand why. There has to be a reason or reasons and I need to know what they are. I probably won’t agree with everyone, but at least I will know what others think or believe.

I could just blow it off as something I do not believe ever happened and go with the Baha’i explanation of what the resurrection means, but this is too important of an issue to sweep under the carpet. Besides, I find the Baha’i explanation wanting because it does not really explain why so much was written about the resurrection in the NT, as if it really happened.

Puck up a Bible and read the passage carefully. Read Matthew's version.

After Jesus dies, graves literally open up, and previous saints start walking. Then Jesus himself rises. Then the guard is instructed to tell an official stoey about this incident.

In other words, the resurrection is not just Jesus coming back, a sort of "huh the Romans couldn't kill someone" it was a MAJOR upheaval in state power.

Why do you pay taxes? Because if you don't someone could arrest you, or hold your salary. Now, way back when, if you didn't pay taxes you could expect Roman guards to gently persuade you with a sword.

With me so far? Now what happens when the public KNOWS there is no such thing as death? You got it, state power breaks down. You see yet why the resurrection is a big deal? We had all these zombie saints walking around before finally passing on, telling people what the Afterlife was like or what God was like, and people started believing them. So these believers have to be martyred, or their loved ones have to be threatened, or whatever.

The Resurrection: Why does it matter?

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Veteran Member

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Be who ever you want

Veteran Member

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Veteran Member

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Veteran Member

wind and rain touch not this brain

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist