Personal deity and suffering/evil

Thirza Fallen said:

Being Christian made me happy thinking there was a deity who cares and answers prayer. I know it's illogical, but I liked the idea of it.

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And no god meant no players answered?

But prayers are not answered and the only ones who care are close friends and relatives, you get that with Atheism.

So i would say religion makes you feel comfortable but god cannot hack it? Is that a fair assessment?

A Vestigial Mote said:

As others have alluded to, "evil" is too ambiguous a word to have much of any meaning if we're talking universal scale - which I would assume when we're talking about a "god's" thoughts on "evil."

When we humans use the word "evil," we're specifically invoking the idea of things that hurt humans. This is a rather myopic view of "good/bad." For example, a virus is, in no way, "evil." That would be an extremely sophomoric assessment to make. Yes, contracting a virus is detrimental to human health, and yes, people can even die due to viral infection. But can you entertain the idea that there is "good" also being done in that situation? For example, the human succumbing to the virus means that the virus was able to take over a very significant portion of the human's cell-system, and procreated quite profusely, and very likely infected other human beings that the host came in contact with during the whole process. This is EXACTLY what the virus was attempting to accomplish! In other words, this is quite a win for the virus. This is "good" from the virus' point of view (if it even has one - likely not). But don't you see? "Good" is simply SO subjective, and SO relative to the point of view that the word almost has no meaning until we have that frame of reference. i.e. that we are specifically talking about "good" for humans.

Now, take the perspective of a "god." What is "good" in the eyes of a god? Wouldn't it most likely be anything that was advantageous to the god? And if that is the case, then how do you know that humans are advantageous to the god? How do you know that the god considers what is "good" for humans to be "good" from its perspective as well? How do you know? Because you were told this by someone else? Is that all you have? Perhaps you should think on this topic some more.

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This helps a ton!!!

ChristineM said:

And no god meant no players answered?

But prayers are not answered and the only ones who care are close friends and relatives, you get that with Atheism.

So i would say religion makes you feel comfortable but god cannot hack it? Is that a fair assessment?

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I guess I have to say it's a fair assessment.

Thirza Fallen said:

I have been atheist and it was depressing. I wish I hadn't ever become a Christian, because now I want a god, but I don't want to force myself to believe in one.

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So don't.
That's useless.

When I was first developing my own faith in God, I would pray like this:

"Father in Heaven" That's how I was taught to address Him in prayer, and I saw no reason to change that..."if you are there, help me understand." Then you simply do what feels right to you, and keep praying. Someday your faith will come.

It might take awhile. Mother Theresa struggled with it all her life.

It's one of those...'do it anyway' things.

You doubt God? Obey what you believe His laws are anyway.
You aren't sure that you are blessed? Thank Him anyway, If He's there, He just might listen. If He isn't, the state of being thankful is good for pretty much everybody.
You aren't sure that you are following the correct teachings? Follow them anyway...and learn about others, and pray, even if that prayer is "God, if you ARE there, I need a little help here."

And yes, theists WILL try to talk you into going the way they do. They do, after all, think that they are right and that you will be aided by following their paths.

Atheists do exactly the same thing. Follow your own path.

Oh....and when the Mormon missionaries come to your door, feed them milk and cookies, and let them mow your lawn, if it needs mowing. It will do them good, and YOU might learn something, too. There. That's my bit of proselyting for the day,

Thirza Fallen said:

Yes, but the kind of evil I mean is things like babies born with deformities and diseases that kill them as children, etc.

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I know there are different views on this, But since I come from an Asian religious/ Cultivation background I found that also the deformation has to do with karma (then from a former lifetime)
But maybe only a few on the forum would agree with my understanding here

Thirza Fallen said:

I am trying to cement my view of god and can't get my head around a personal and loving god that allows evil. If a god answers prayer, why is there such suffering of the innocent? If a god can answer prayer, why does it just not let the evil happen to begin with? Help!

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As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, nature must go through a period of phased degradation starting from sattva, rajas and finally to tamas.

Tamas is associated with inauspiciousness, breakdown of values, degradation of nature and human beings, destructive conficts and war.

Rajas is associated with egoism, activity, desires, passion.

Sattva is associated with pure consciousness, harmony, auspiciousness, happiness and bliss.

The present kali yuga or Iron Age is predominant in tamas while the earlier Golden Ages, Silver Age were predominant in sattva, and the bronze age was predominant in rajas.


This is the reason why the present age seems to be anarchic and chaotic, due to the predominance of the inauspicious tamas.

Through meditation, remembrance of God and cultivation of divine virtues, we can increase the auspicious sattva around us, and reduce the inauspicious tamas.

Hence it is not God, but the phased degradation of nature corresponding with decline in moral values in human beings that is the cause of evil.

You can find more information in this article by Anthony Strano, Director of Brahmakumaris in Greece.

Time and Transformation - About Brahma Kumaris

Brahma Kumaris - Original and Official website

Trailblazer said:

Do you think that what people believe determines what is true?

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I think you can guess my answer to this one, even before writing it.
Also doesn't that apply to everyone, including your own believe in Baha'u'llah?

No what people believe to be true have nothing to do with what is actually true. That is why we need evidence for claims, so we can remove wishful thinking.

Thirza Fallen said:

I have been atheist and it was depressing. I wish I hadn't ever become a Christian, because now I want a god, but I don't want to force myself to believe in one.

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I'd respectfully suggest that blaming atheism for your emotional problems is one of the things you'd be better off dealing with directly. Trying to convince yourself that there is some loving God out there to make everything OK is one kind of solution but I'm not sure it's an especially healthy one.

dianaiad said:

Atheists do exactly the same thing. Follow your own path.

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This is crap. Atheists aren't trying to get anyone to follow some "prescription" for how to live. Most will likely acknowledge that any "spiritual" answers to how we should live our lives simply are not available - and so all they will have are suggestions or personal opinion on how to solve a specific problem you might have. And yes, many of them may tell you that believing in god has absolutely no merit whatsoever - but you mistake that for a prescription on how to live your life. If anything, that is stating that it is plausible to remove from your life the thing that is trying to impose a prescription on you - but there will likely be zero attempt to get you to adhere to some OTHER prescription to replace the one you lost when you finally stopped believing in a god you have no good reason to believe in. No atheist I have ever known would try to foist some boxed-up "way to live" on someone else. Again - most of us will acknowledge that all we have is personal experience and opinion, and that all of us are different, and are living our lives differently, and that this is 100% okay.

ajay0 said:

As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, nature must go through a period of phased degradation starting from sattva, rajas and finally to tamas.

Tamas is associated with inauspiciousness, breakdown of values, degradation of nature and human beings, destructive conficts and war.

Rajas is associated with egoism, activity, desires, passion.

Sattva is associated with pure consciousness, harmony, auspiciousness, happiness and bliss.

The present kali yuga or Iron Age is predominant in tamas while the earlier Golden Ages, Silver Age were predominant in sattva, and the bronze age was predominant in rajas.


This is the reason why the present age seems to be anarchic and chaotic, due to the predominance of the inauspicious tamas.

Through meditation, remembrance of God and cultivation of divine virtues, we can increase the auspicious sattva around us, and reduce the inauspicious tamas.

Hence it is not God, but the phased degradation of nature corresponding with decline in moral values in human beings that is the cause of evil.

You can find more information in this article by Anthony Strano, Director of Brahmakumaris in Greece.

Time and Transformation - About Brahma Kumaris

Brahma Kumaris - Original and Official website

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I remember reading that recently. Of course, now I can't remember which book it was.

Nimos said:

Trailblazer said: Do you think that what people believe determines what is true?

I think you can guess my answer to this one, even before writing it.
Also doesn't that apply to everyone, including your own believe in Baha'u'llah?

No what people believe to be true have nothing to do with what is actually true. That is why we need evidence for claims, so we can remove wishful thinking.

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I fully agree, and yes, it applies to everyone, including my belief in Baha'u'llah.
We need evidence to support claims because otherwise it is just wishful thinking.

Thirza Fallen said:

I am trying to cement my view of god and can't get my head around a personal and loving god that allows evil. If a god answers prayer, why is there such suffering of the innocent? If a god can answer prayer, why does it just not let the evil happen to begin with? Help!

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If a human asks, what reason does creation exist.....they already gave their own self that answer.

A story was told that God O was an angel that fell into the great deep....meaning space.

And that a multi mass body of God O and o fell.

Some of those bodies that burst and burnt, became evolved, and others rebelled, meaning that they became self consuming/destructive, the suns.

And the Sun then fell into the great deep, as the satan star black holes.

So as a self, who knows Garden Nature existed first, then animals then humans, you would ask how does such a separate diverse spiritual body exist.

And what was the purpose of God into a fall?

Which brings you to a spiritual realization. The spirit that caused the loss from their pre existing body.....which a human giving names to all things researched as that human self...said it came from eternal. What had always existed spiritually, what always will exist and always was existing.

To say and to self....so how did we get put into creation, as a conscious self.

To know the teachings of science cause and effect. What you cause, you then are forced to gain a returned condition.

So knowing that space is deep and empty, and that gases made the atmosphere heavenly body as filled in space....then we know we got forced out of the eternal spirit body......as the presence forced to suffer the consequences of having changed what spiritual holiness we once existed in and with.

Humans then tell self a story. When I personally die, knowing that all humans are only created by human sexual intercourse....I still own a part of my self not a human....knowing that it was a spirit self that sung us out of their body.

If a human says to self....so I now live owning a status in which I can only achieve if I take care of it. As a spiritual nurturing self lesson. We taught ourselves as human parents to abide natural and to apply as little change as possible to the Nature of our life.

So we already own all of the spiritual human reasoning for why.

It is only the humans who do not abide their spirit story that cause any greater harm to our life, and that statement is named as science....or the old term Satanism...to believe in using Sun metallic radiation to force change Nature.

Here, here. If I could understand that.

Thirza Fallen said:

I have been pantheist for a while, but I would like to believe in a personal god again.

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God is near. Time is short. There is more to reality than the present.

chris baron said:

God is near. Time is short. There is more to reality than the present.

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Welcome to the forum.

I agree that God is near... even though we cannot see Him.

Why do you believe time is short?

I do not know what you meant by "There is more to reality than the present."

I live in the present day, but I believe that there is more to reality than the present. I believe that the spiritual world is the real world and this material world is very temporary. This world can be likened to the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreams to be water, and then when he strives after it with all his might and comes to it he finds it to be a mere illusion. On the other hand, some people just keep striving and thinking this is the only world there is.

Trailblazer said:

Welcome to the forum.

This world can be likened to the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreams to be water, and then when he strives after it with all his might and comes to it he finds it to be a mere illusion. On the other hand, some people just keep striving and thinking this is the only world there is.

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thanks for the welcome. wizanda sent me over here.

pop culture always tries to impress us that we live in a vast, impossibly old, materialistic and Godless universe. to this i say that God is near, time is short and there is more to reality than the present. because the "universe" is not impossibly huge or old and evolution and all that horrible nonsense they teach in schools and colleges is a lie.
im in shock knowing now how much the institutions of the world are committed to nonsense and evil deception.

chris baron said:

im in shock knowing now how much the institutions of the world are committed to nonsense and evil deception.

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I am in shock knowing now how much some religions of the world are committed to nonsense and deception.
But I don't want to get into that here.

Trailblazer said:

I am in shock knowing now how much some religions of the world are committed to nonsense and deception.
But I don't want to get into that here.

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the atheist religion of modern pop culture is the lowest point humanity has ever reached.
may Allah give us assurance of better in the next life

chris baron said:

the atheist religion of modern pop culture is the lowest point humanity has ever reached.
may Allah give us assurance of better in the next life

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I agree with you in part. The religion of modern pop culture is the lowest point humanity has ever reached.
However, I do not believe that religion is comprised solely or even mostly of atheists.

Atheists are only a very small minority of the population, so that means that modern pop culture must be comprised mostly of believers.

Trailblazer said:

On the other hand, some people just keep striving and thinking this is the only world there is.

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Oh! There is another (world)? Where? Milky Way or Andromeda or somewhere else?

chris baron said:

.. because the "universe" is not impossibly huge or old and evolution and all that horrible nonsense they teach in schools and colleges is a lie.

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Oh! Are you the camel driver from Sahara?

Trailblazer said:

I am in shock knowing now how much some religions of the world are committed to nonsense and deception.

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And you are still a Bahai! Maid of Heaven, fulfilling the prophecies of Tanakh, Bible and Quran, returning Jesus, Krishna, Buddha and Saoshyant, the other world, etc.