-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Dvaita v. Advaita
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
In the most basic terms, dvaita is duality; advaita is nonduality.
In other words, dvaita sees the individual Self (jivatman) and Brahman as distinct and independent realities. Advaita sees the jivatman as identical and one and the same as Brahman.
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
Dvaita means "duality". Dvaita school believes that God and the individual souls are distinct.
Advaita means "non-dualism“ and refers to the idea that the true self (Atman) is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman).
Over-simplification leads to the claim that in Advaita, the soul = God, which may lead critics to the absurd statement that "YOU are God", but atman is just a form of pure consciousness, and Brahman is of the same nature of pure consciousness.
Advaita means "non-dualism“ and refers to the idea that the true self (Atman) is the same as the highest metaphysical Reality (Brahman).
Over-simplification leads to the claim that in Advaita, the soul = God, which may lead critics to the absurd statement that "YOU are God", but atman is just a form of pure consciousness, and Brahman is of the same nature of pure consciousness.
For me it's just a question of how you answer "Where's God?" If it's 'over there' that's dvaita. If it's 'inside me' or 'everywhere' that's advaita.
There are some systems (like mine) that are combinations of both. I don't see it as an either this or that scenario.
There are some systems (like mine) that are combinations of both. I don't see it as an either this or that scenario.
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I like that!
Sounds like what I subscribe to... Vishishtadvaita, Advaita w/ qualifications. Monism with all diversity subsumed to the whole. Like waves to the ocean. They are the same in quality but not in quantity.
Dvaita means dual meaning God and us/creation are two things. This would resemble more Abrahamic religious thinkning
Advaita means non-dual meaning God and creation are not-two things but just temporarily appears seperate through illusion (maya).
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
So how does Dvaita differ from the Abrahamic model? It sounds similar if God and "soul" are separate.
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
So how does this work with ideas of everything being Brahman?
That was my point. There is no fundamental difference. The Abrahamic religions align with dualistic (dvaita) thinking.
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
OK. But then is there any essential difference between Dvaita and the Abrahamic religions?
Just the prophets are different and so many trappings and cultural things develop over thousands of years. Hinduism is so diverse and complicated.
The Abrahamic religions are dvaitic.
Dvaita doesn't work with everything being Brahman.
Concepts:
Reality is a nested hierarchy. There are levels of increasingly "real," subjective reality, ending with one Objective Reality. Dualism diminishes as one approaches Objective Reality.
Dualism is diversity, it's differentness.
Dualism includes qualities like this and that, self and non-self, here and there, past and present, black and white, moving and unmoving. All these are illusions; part of the dream.
There are levels of consciousness corresponding to level of illusion. For example, dream state (2nd state) is less real than waking state (3rd state). 5th state is more real than waking state. All are dreams within dreams; different levels of awakeness.
The final awakening is into a non-dualistic Reality; a Real Reality, without qualities or differences.
Non-Dualism is a timeless, undifferentiated sea of conscious no-thingness.
There is no concept of level-of-consciousness in the Abrahamic religions. There is no merger of diversity into unity. Life's goal is merely an idealized version of what's currently being experienced.
The Abrahamic religions are, thus, very different from non-dualistic, philosophical Hinduism.
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Thanks, but the question about everything being Brahman was related to Advaita, not Dvaita. I didn't ask for a lecture on Advaita, I've already had a few of those.
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Sorry but I don't understand your distinction between thingness and no-thingness,or what this has to do with Dvaita v. Advaita.
Could you explain this in simple terms?
As explained in the OP, I am trying to understand basic distinctions. The various convolutions of Advaita thinking don't seem that relevant.
Last edited:
I'll try.
Thingness and no-thingness are English translations of dvaita and advaita. I'm trying to avoid technical jargon and Sanskrit, as you requested.
Dualism is a perception of otherness; me vs you, this vs that. I perceive myself as separate from you; as separate from a car. You and me and the car are different things.
In non dualism there is no duality between me and you, me and the car. It's an inability to perceive any boundary between self and other. It's a merger of every thing into a single, undifferentiated Unity. You and the car are me.
Think of a raindrop or sugar cube falling into the ocean. Once they were separate things, then they were not. They became one with the ocean; indistinguishable as separate things.
Last edited:
I've never heard this translation, nor can I find one that indicates this. Do you have a resource that supports this?
Dvaita is dualism; the concept of self as a separate, individual thing; of a diversity of things other than and independent of self.
Advaita is the opposite; the concept an undifferentiated Unity, called Brahman in Hindu philosophy. It's the idea that diversity is an illusion, like images on a movie screen. Only the blank screen is real. There is no thing that is not self/Brahman.
Advaita | school of Hindu philosophy
The concepts of levels of reality/consciousness, and illusion are key concepts in this.
I'm curious. What were your impressions of these concepts? I'm trying to present them unencumbered with religion, which, particularly in the case of Hinduism, can get bafflingly convoluted pretty quickly.
Advaita is the opposite; the concept an undifferentiated Unity, called Brahman in Hindu philosophy. It's the idea that diversity is an illusion, like images on a movie screen. Only the blank screen is real. There is no thing that is not self/Brahman.
Advaita | school of Hindu philosophy
The concepts of levels of reality/consciousness, and illusion are key concepts in this.
I'm curious. What were your impressions of these concepts? I'm trying to present them unencumbered with religion, which, particularly in the case of Hinduism, can get bafflingly convoluted pretty quickly.
Last edited:
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Dont call it absurd, Sirona. Understand it better. The problem arises when you consider Brahman as a God. But if you do not consider Brahman as a interfering God and just the "material" which makes all things, then there is no problem. I neither believe in existence of any God nor of soul. So, for me Brahman is what makes everything, you, me, a cockroach or a stone. One just has to surrender ones ego.
Thanks, Jai, for appreciation.
Or you can consider that they are never separated, the apparent separation being only an illusion.
Last edited: