NYC’s anti-Semitic spree

PureX said:

A lot of people do, especially when that great wrong was done to them, personally. Like it or not, this is just how most humans are.
Nevertheless, this is how a lot of people think. And if this is what's fueling these recent acts of violence against Jews, we need to acknowledge it, and try to figure out a way to stop it. Condemning human stupidity does very little to thwart human stupidity.

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And when it happens, it's irrational and we call it bigotry. We don't go looking for reasons to excuse it.

When you are willing to go trying to "fix" racial prejudice against blacks by dealing with all the problems caused by criminal Blacks instead of simply calling racism the ugly thing it really is, THEN and only then will I take your recommendation seriously. But so far, it seems like you have one standard for anti-Semitism and a different standard for every other form of bigotry.

IndigoChild5559 said:

I think also that the nature of the violence has changed. What we see now is narcissitice self aggrandizing violence. "Look at me! Look at me!" sort of thing. You really didn't see that when I was a kid. The culture truly has become a lot more self centered. It used to be that if you didn't like your marriage, you divorced. If you were deeply disturbed, you committed suicide. These days, you kill your wife and kids. What's with that?

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Yes, perhaps, which why I'm unsure of how it should be analyzed myself. And why I might class most violence that we see occurring nowadays as possibly not being exactly ideologically motivated, but motivated possibly by mere unrestrained anger that modern criminal individuals have exhibited as the result of a failure of discipline, in the environment of modern society.. That's a really rough and non-articulate way to put it, but I think maybe it's toward where we should look. Hence, when hearing of violence such as you describe here, it wouldn't surprise me if it had a significant 'arbitrary' element to it as well, (though I haven't read about this specific story, as it may or may not have this) as this would correlate to the changing locus around which violence gravitates

SigurdReginson said:

No one has a monopoly on hate for sure. That said, quite a few white nationalists have taken up residence where I live the past couple years. They were leaving flyers at the local collage, and even were pelting my appartment building with plastic bags holding flyers that were weighted with rocks. Looked something like this.

They have seemed to be getting more vocal and bold.

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I don't understand. What's wrong with the above flyer?

Please explain to me precisely what makes the above sign 'white supremacy' and 'hate speech"

Wandering Monk said:

Look, I get it about the violence, but I am still unclear on what makes a person a Jew.

It can't be biological because a person can convert to Judaism and be considered a Jew.

It can't be national because many citizens of Israel are not Jewish.

It can't be base on religious observance because most people who call themselves Jews in Israel are secular.

It seems in these type of discussions that this lack of clarity leads to situations where a specific poster seems to bounce around between definitions.

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It's a tribal thing. According to Jewish law, a person is a Jew if they are born of a Jewish mother OR if they undergo a proper conversion.

sun rise said:

Maybe because the investigation is not over yet.

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The guy charged with the crime is named Thomas Grafton, he doesn't look much like a White Nationalist or a neo-Nazi.

IndigoChild5559 said:

We know for certain that the Jersey City shooters were inspired by the Black Hebrew Israelites, whether or not they were official members. It is a religious conviction of the BHI that Jews are "fake" and evil, and the white man is the devil.

The subsequent offenders? I doubt it. But they learned the hate from other Black sources such as Farrakhan/Black Islam, which has filtered down to the streets. They have completely forgotten that it was the Jews who stood beside them during the Civil Rights movement, and Jews who continue to vote against discrimination.

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I think this is all a bit of a stretch. One incident is connected, but we don't know how much. The rest is just speculation on your part. Can you see why I might be skeptical that this is the answer to the question of impetuous?

Wandering Monk said:

Look, I get it about the violence, but I am still unclear on what makes a person a Jew.

It can't be biological because a person can convert to Judaism and be considered a Jew.

It can't be national because many citizens of Israel are not Jewish.

It can't be base on religious observance because most people who call themselves Jews in Israel are secular.

It seems in these type of discussions that this lack of clarity leads to situations where a specific poster seems to bounce around between definitions.

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It's called an ethno-religion. That means it has features of an ethnicity and features of a religion. In our case, you can be born Jewish if your mother is Jewish, just like you're born [part] Japanese if one if your parents are Japanese. You can also convert to Judaism, just like you can convert to any other religion. Another way to look at it is like becoming a citizen of a country: you can be a natural-born citizen, or you can be a naturalized citizen.

Either of these things will make a person, a Jewish person. That is: belonging to the Jewish nation. People who belong to the Jewish nation are like citizens of the US: just because you're a US citizen, doesn't mean you follow all - or even any - of the laws of the land. You might be a citizen of America, but that doesn't mean you obey American law. It's the same thing here. Being a "citizen" of the Jewish nation doesn't mean you obey Jewish law.

The State of Israel is a separate entity that has very little relation to Jewish Law. Imagine a group of Brits moving to Canada and creating their own legal system not based on the British legal system. They call themselves Brits by heritage, but they aren't actually practicing British law. They're not even really trying to pass themselves or their country as one that practices British Law. They are a group of people who created a new country and as a side note, they happen to have British heritage and perhaps have some British artifacts in the system recalling that heritage. That's pretty much what the State of Israel is.

Stanyon said:

Quite a few of these recent attacks have been committed by African Americans.

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Like I said, no one has a monopoly on hate. We need to stamp this garbage out, and take these groups seriously. This is home grown terrorism.

SigurdReginson said:

Like I said, no one has a monopoly on hate. We need to stamp this garbage out, and take these groups seriously. This is home grown terrorism.

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What groups? It was one guy so far and apparently he had been arrested before for punching a police horse in the face if that gives you any indication.

SigurdReginson said:

No one has a monopoly on hate for sure. That said, quite a few white nationalists have taken up residence where I live the past couple years. They were leaving flyers at the local collage, and even were pelting my appartment building with plastic bags holding flyers that were weighted with rocks. Looked something like this.

They have seemed to be getting more vocal and bold.

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Approximately when did they start getting more vocal?

dianaiad said:

I don't understand. What's wrong with the above flyer?

Please explain to me precisely what makes the above sign 'white supremacy' and 'hate speech"

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That's the problem. Let me show you some of their other flyers.



See? Nothing there immediately comes out as racist. They are anti-communist, for sure, but meh.



This one too! Sure, it is aggressive and dire in it's wording, but nothing too bad. Oh wait, the website is blood and soil. That's a Nazi slogan. Clever to hide their message in uncommon wordage...



They have gotten really good at masking their message and making it palatable for average folks. If we look at that first flyer I posted, though -the one like the one they pelted my apartment building with:



Read the fine print. Last sentence. "Join us in our struggle for race and nation."

Now, they are one of the groups engaged with ANTIFA in the violent protests that happen anually down in Portland. One of the groups. There are more.

Stanyon said:

What groups? It was one guy so far and apparently he had been arrested before for punching a police horse in the face if that gives you any indication.

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Ah, sorry. I was referring to one of the previous crimes similar to this one: The Black Hebrew Israelites would be one of them.

A lot has happened since then, though.

There was an attack on Jewish New Yorkers almost every day last week. Police are investigating these as possible hate crimes - CNN

Seems to be a much more average accourance lately. What the hell?...

SigurdReginson said:

That's the problem. Let me show you some of their other flyers.

See? Nothing there immediately comes out as racist. They are anti-communist, for sure, but meh.

This one too! Sure, it is aggressive and dire in it's wording, but nothing too bad. Oh wait, the website is blood and soil. That's a Nazi slogan. Clever to hide their message in uncommon wordage...

They have gotten really good at masking their message and making it palatable for average folks. If we look at that first flyer I posted, though -the one like the one they pelted my apartment building with:

Read the fine print. Last sentence. "Join us in our struggle for race and nation."

Now, they are one of the groups engaged with ANTIFA in the violent protests that happen anually down in Portland. One of the groups. There are more.

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I didn't see (couldn't see...the wording was too small) that last line...with which I disagree.

However, the main thing, in large font, really strikes a chord with me. In today's society 'free speech" is OFTEN considered 'hate speech' by those who choose to be offended, and I have a real problem with that.

I also whole heartedly agree with the 'strong families' sign. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it, except who, evidently, is saying it.

I mean, really....is the sign wrong? Are strong families a bad thing?

............and don't you DARE call me a white supremacist. That would be ludicrous.

Gerry said:

Approximately when did they start getting more vocal?

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I would say since the past 3 or so years. This last year has been the most vocal, though.

dianaiad said:

I didn't see (couldn't see...the wording was too small) that last line...with which I disagree.

However, the main thing, in large font, really strikes a chord with me. In today's society 'free speech" is OFTEN considered 'hate speech' by those who choose to be offended, and I have a real problem with that.

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They count on people having that sentiment. That's how they recruit people. Prey on people's legitimate concerns, then start to feed them their ideological drivel once the person has taken the bait. Thankfully most people have enough common sense to realize what happens before they get too deep into it, but it is a recruitment method that works for other folks.

Cults use similar methods to get people sucked in, interestingly.

dianaiad said:

I don't understand. What's wrong with the above flyer?

Please explain to me precisely what makes the above sign 'white supremacy' and 'hate speech"

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Blood and soil - Wikipedia

SigurdReginson said:

Seems to be a much more average accourance lately. What the hell?...

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Could be black Russians trying to cause division and discord.

SigurdReginson said:

I would say since the past 3 or so years. This last year has been the most vocal, though.

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Makes sense

Stanyon said:

Could be black Russians trying to cause division and discord.

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You joke, but meh. Russia does screw with us, but honestly, they are just the loudest of all the other hecklers laughing and throwing things at us while we make fools of ourselves on the world stage. They can't really do much more to hurt us than we do to ourselves at this point. We really need to get a grip as a nation.

PureX said:

like nazi storm-troopers

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"The Jews are the real Nazis"

Splendid.

PureX said:

Are Jews around the world becoming more aggressive now that Israel has done so?

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Let me guess, you see yourself as an ally to the real Jews or some crap like that.