Study Shows That Socialist Nations Have Higher Quality Of Life Than Capitalist Nations

It is a study that compares different nations and their economies. According to the study, socialist nations have a higher quality of life when compared to capitalist nations of similar economic developement 28/30 times. The prinicipal source of statistical data on the nations was the World Bank

It is “Economic Development, Political-Economic System, and the Physical Quality of Life” by Shirley Cereseto, PhD, and Howard Waitzkin, MD, PhD.

IsaiahX said:

It is a study that compares different nations and their economies. According to the study, socialist nations have a higher quality of life when compared to capitalist nations of similar economic developement 28/30 times. The prinicipal source of statistical data on the nations was the World Bank

It is “Economic Development, Political-Economic System, and the Physical Quality of Life” by Shirley Cereseto, PhD, and Howard Waitzkin, MD, PhD.

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This study, from 1986, seems highly tendentious.

More than half of the "socialist" countries are in Europe, behind the Iron Curtain. These would have been expected, from their geography, history and sophistication, to have been affluent if they had not become part of the empire of the USSR at the end of WW2. Now that they have been released from their communist bondage and joined the EU, they are moving up the rankings rapidly. I doubt you will find many who long to go back.

Whereas the "capitalist" countries include just about all the 3rd world. These countries scarcely qualified as "capitalist" in the mid 1980s.

exchemist said:

This study, from 1986, seems highly tendentious.

More than half of the "socialist" countries are in Europe, behind the Iron Curtain. These would have been expected, from their geography, history and sophistication, to have been affluent if they had not become part of the empire of the USSR at the end of WW2. Now that they have been released from their communist bondage and joined the EU, they are moving up the rankings rapidly. I doubt you will find many who long to go back.

Whereas the "capitalist" countries include just about all the 3rd world. These countries scarcely qualified as "capitalist" in the mid 1980s.

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Once again, the US's fear of the word socialism and their ability to equate it to communism defeats any discussion about this.
In Europe, Socialism = left of centre politics

Altfish said:

Once again, the US's fear of the word socialism and their ability to equate it to communism defeats any discussion about this.
In Europe, Socialism = left of centre politics

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I agree generally, but not in this case. If you look at the bottom of the paper, the countries they classify as "socialist" were really communist: the likes of China, USSR, Albania, Hungary, Cuba etc.

exchemist said:

I agree generally, but not in this case. If you look at the bottom of the paper, the countries they classify as "socialist" were really communist: the likes of China, USSR, Albania, Hungary, Cuba etc.

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In communist East Germany, the life standard was lower compared to West Germany (which is probably a "bad thing") while there also was a much greater sense of cohesion (us vs. "the State") and mutual help (by organizing and bartering scarce goods). Practically all of this went down the drain with the advent of capitalism. Now it's everything available and me, me, me first. Older East Germans still chew on this to this very day, being nostalgic for the so-called "good old times".

Sirona said:

In communist East Germany, the life standard was lower compared to West Germany (which is probably a "bad thing") while there also was a much greater sense of cohesion (us vs. "the State") and mutual help (by organizing and bartering scarce goods). Practically all of this went down the drain with the advent of capitalism. Now it's everything available and me, me, me first. Older East Germans still chew on this to this very day, being nostalgic for the so-called "good old times".

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That's a very interesting perspective. A degree of hardship often does tend to create cohesion. In Britain, some people used to look back to wartime as an era when everyone helped one another, in a way now lost. But nobody seriously wants to recreate the war, just for that.

In the case of the GDR, the files seem to show that about a third of the population was informing on the rest to the Stasi. That paints a rather different picture of social cohesion, it seems to me.

There is a tendency among human beings to remember selectively the good parts of the past and forget the bad. I think one needs to be aware of this when listening to old people moaning about the present. (I speak as a 65 year old, aware that I tend to do this myself on occasions.)

Altfish said:

Once again, the US's fear of the word socialism and their ability to equate it to communism defeats any discussion about this.
In Europe, Socialism = left of centre politics

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Thank you for underlining this huge difference.

exchemist said:

That's a very interesting perspective. A degree of hardship often does tend to create cohesion. In Britain, some people used to look back to wartime as an era when everyone helped one another, in a way now lost. But nobody seriously wants to recreate the war, just for that.

In the case of the GDR, the files seem to show that about a third of the population was informing on the rest to the Stasi. That paints a rather different picture of social cohesion, it seems to me.

There is a tendency among human beings to remember selectively the good parts of the past and forget the bad. I think one needs to be aware of this when listening to old people moaning about the present. (I speak as a 65 year old, aware that I tend to do this myself on occasions.)

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exchemist said:

In the case of the GDR, the files seem to show that about a third of the population was informing on the rest to the Stasi. That paints a rather different picture of social cohesion, it seems to me.

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East Germans were aware probably not totally, but partly aware of the Stasi. In many cases, there were rumours about "who they were". However, there were also many informants whom you wouldn't have expected to be. In these cases, they often were often extorted by the Stasi because the agency knew about some "dirty secrets" which could be used against you, or by threatening that you would be blocked from going to university or wouldn't have been allowed to have a certain career (artists) if you didn't do what they wanted.

Another funny thing in Communism was a very high attendance in churches. Belonging to a church was for free, and churches functioned as havens for dissidents. Now, as we have "freedom of religion" (and the church tax), churches have dramatically lost in popularity.