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Evolution My ToE

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you think all believers must take each day of creation in the Genesis account as a day of 24 hours even if you personally don't believe it?

No. I think that the author of the Genesis account of creation meant 24 hour day for the reasons already given, which you ignored, so I have no reason to revise my opinion. You're going to believe whatever makes the Bible god seem kinder, smarter, and more reasonable.

By the way, how long is your sabbath - your day of rest like the Bible god took? That's how long a day of creation is.

Incidentally, whenever you see a description of the Bible god that is less than it could have been, ask yourself why - what purpose would such a description serve. Why did this god need six days to create the universe, and why did He need to rest afterward. Here's my proposed answer:

Once, before the advent of organized, centralized religion, I presume that it was considered sinful for any able-bodied person that could work to not work simply because he wanted a day off. The flocks needed attention every day. If it was planting or harvesting season, there were no days when planting or harvesting didn't occur until the job was done.

Now comes a priesthood and gathering place for religious purposes. The priesthood needs the people to come to it and the temple, which requires that people put down their plowshares, travel to the synagogue for services, and to bring tithes. This would likely take most of a day for many of the people served by any given synagogue, and require that the farmer, smith, or shepherd take a day off work to travel to the priests - once considered sinful sloth. A new ethic was born. It was commanded, which commandment made the top ten list. The sin then became working on this day. And God's day of rest serves as the role model, and why it is sinful to not also take a day off each week.

Notice also the choice of the week, an artificial construct with no astronomical correlate like the day, month, or year, which are inspired by celestial motions and cycles. How often shall these people be instructed to take a day off and bring tithes to the priests? A month was too long. So, the week was invented - the work week to be precise.

Now the story make sense.

We can subject the flood myth to the same type of analysis. Why include a story that depicts this god as a fallible, capricious, unfair, and not too smart creator for using the same breeding stock to repair its engineering mistake with humanity?. Why would such a story be preserved? What purpose does it fulfill?

I think it begins with finding sea shells and marine fossils on mountaintops. Explain that if you're an ancient.

Today, we understand that these mountain tops were former sea floors uplifted by plate tectonics to form mountains. But in ancient times, that was unthinkable. To them, the seas rose to cover all the land. For whatever his reason, God drowned the earth. Being a good god, it must have been deserved. These must have been wicked people indeed. And there's your flood story, and why this flood is global when all other floods witnessed by man were local and didn't cover the highest peaks.

Again, now the story makes sense.

I find it interesting when a person says how complete his life is. And possibly how happy he is, and satisfied. I suppose such a person is satisfied and happy (?) when he is about to die, or when a loved one dies also. Happy, satisfied, and ready to go.

Isn't that how we all want to die - comfortable, at home, in the presence of family, and proud to have lived an upright life regret-free.

I suspect that you're dwelling on this matter because the idea that somebody could feel complete and satisfied without religion or a god belief causes cognitive dissonance for you. It shouldn't be possible. You've been taught that your path ought to be more satisfying than mine. I've tried both. I'm happier now than then.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
We are not ye! Ancient Israel was who He gave those rules to.
The whole Adam & Eve Creation story was given to Ancient Israel, but you accept it.
The whole Big Flood story was given to Ancient Israel, but you accept it.

As I said...Deny, deny, deny, pick and choose, pick and choose, that's about all you do on the forum.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Just because He does not send lightning bolts to destroy Walmarts does not mean He supports the sort of labor practices some factories they may use, or how they may treat workers. When He steps in to end wickedness it is all over. Until then, we live in a wicked ol world.

Stop trying to whitewash the guilt of your God. HE endorsed slavery. HE endorsed rape. Read your scripture.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
He is against slavery. He does not like the oppression of rich men. He is against the sweatshops and slavery we have today. He will stop the world soon so we can get off.
Correction, he is against the killing of slaves, not slavery itself. Of course it's obvious that he is against sweatshops. Those shop owners don't allow someone to beat the workers to near death. If those shop owners did allow people to do that, he would be in favor of the sweatshops.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
When He steps in to end wickedness it is all over.
Didn't he stepped in to end wickedness already when he created flood during the time of Noah? Didn't that story say that it wasn't over since Noah and his family survived?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
What a huge assumptions. Sorry to have to tell you... It is completely wrong.
Providing an argument in support of you belief, that can demonstrate the OP's arguments to be false is what this is about.
So far you haven't done that
Maybe because you can't.
I find when evolution believers are confronted with their own data, the easiest thing they seem to do, is hide their eyes, and make statements that are basically... strawman..

You can always make another attempt.

IF you can show that ToE is false all you need is
one contrary fact. Of course, it would help if you
were not so profoundly ignorantof what you
"Know" cannot be so.

Lets have one contrary fact. Your gish gallop is
a shabby and shameful ploy, which BTW, serves
only to convince you.

One fact. You cannot do it, can you? We all know
you cannot. Lets see you try.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
IF you can show that ToE is false all you need is
one contrary fact. Of course, it would help if you
were not so profoundly ignorantof what you
"Know" cannot be so.

Lets have one contrary fact. Your gish gallop is
a shabby and shameful ploy, which BTW, serves
only to convince you.

One fact. You cannot do it, can you? We all know
you cannot. Lets see you try.
The sudden appearance of the organisms found in the fossil record of the Cambrian Explosion, which have no obvious precursors in the lower strata.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
The sudden appearance of the organisms found in the fossil record of the Cambrian Explosion, which have no obvious precursors in the lower strata.
This again? Shall we go around the same ol' circles, where people provide you examples of transitional forms and you say "Well, they're not 'obvious' so they don't count"? Then we ask you what you mean by "obvious" and a handful of other questions, then you dodge until you walk away from the thread?

Do you honestly think that's effective and persuasive?
 

dad

Undefeated
it is not slander it literally in the OT if you accept the OT as literal.
No. What is in there is telling how His ancient people should behave within the world that existed at that time. Now if a parent told their child to always say thank you at a check out counter, does that mean that the child being nice to a cashier supports slavery?
 

dad

Undefeated
The whole Adam & Eve Creation story was given to Ancient Israel, but you accept it.
The whole Big Flood story was given to Ancient Israel, but you accept it.

As I said...Deny, deny, deny, pick and choose, pick and choose, that's about all you do on the forum.
That applies to us all as all are living in a fallen world. What Daniel may have eaten in captivity does not.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No. What is in there is telling how His ancient people should behave within the world that existed at that time. Now if a parent told their child to always say thank you at a check out counter, does that mean that the child being nice to a cashier supports slavery?
Does not relate to the subject at hand which is slavery in the OT.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The sudden appearance of the organisms found in the fossil record of the Cambrian Explosion, which have no obvious precursors in the lower strata.
This has been addressed many many times and you choose to ignore it. There is abundant evidence of the precursers to the life of the Cambrian in the early Cambrian and PreCambrian going back to the fossils of the first bacteria colonies. No coherent response to the evidence.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
IF you can show that ToE is false all you need is
one contrary fact. Of course, it would help if you
were not so profoundly ignorantof what you
"Know" cannot be so.

Lets have one contrary fact. Your gish gallop is
a shabby and shameful ploy, which BTW, serves
only to convince you.

One fact. You cannot do it, can you? We all know
you cannot. Lets see you try.
I'm didn't create this here thread to convince anyone.
Read the OP, and the posts that follow, and hopefully you see that.
I created the thread to give the ToE believers an opportunity to convince me, that I was wrong.
After all these posts, I am indeed more than convinced that all you have as supportive evidence, are assumption, upon assumptions, upon more assumptions, for a belief - a belief that cannot be verified to be true. That's all.

By the way, where did you suddenly come from? Why did you wait until I left the thread to suddenly have something to say to me, over 120 pages later? Did someone... Ahem, put you up to drawing me into a topic I'm done with?
If that's the case, I'm sorry, I have to inform you, that my intention was to end my discussions on the ToE after I had thoroughly discussed it... which I believe I have.

If as a very, very "late in arriving person", you are interested, you will have to pick one of my posts in the thread, and let me direct you to a response.... but I don't see what's the use, if you can't handle my Gish Gallop. :)
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
I created the thread to give the ToE believers an opportunity to convince me, that I was wrong.
Why would you do that, especially given the extreme emotional and social consequences you'd have to face if you changed your mind?

You do agree with THIS, don't you?

"If evolution is true, life has no lasting purpose."

So why in the world would you start a thread with the goal of seeing if people can convince you that your life has no purpose?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The sudden appearance of the organisms found in the fossil record of the Cambrian Explosion, which have no obvious precursors in the lower strata.
That's true, my brother.
However, it's no longer true when evidence can be manipulated to fix a problem; when one can create just-so-stories to formulate evidence - like when soft tissue could only last so many years, but surprise, surprise, it can last longer than once thought... and how do we know? "We say so." No need to demonstrate it.
We can even talk about the decades transitional fossils did not exist, but no problem - now they do, even though we have to interpret and debate what they look like...and on and on...No end to the plasters for every sore.
This theory is a never ending road of "fix that hole" and I am off it.

filled-potholes.jpg
 
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