• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Restitution Of All Things

Status
Not open for further replies.

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
There is one iron clad road to grasping what is described as a "mystery" in the Scripture. One takes the Scripture into his closest closet, shuts the door, leaves the door shut and listens to what the Spirit is saying. You may be required to stay up all night, perhaps many nights as you and the Mighty One wrestle.

I personally know a remarkable man who wrestled for nearly 10 years before a mighty awakening took place within him in the contest.

Mystery = musterion =

Not the mysterious, but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
"God who is rich in mercy for His great love wherin He loves us." -Eph. 2:4

His great love= His megas love.

Megas= Great in degree & intensity.

The word for today= munificent.

Munificent= great generosity/ extremely liberal.

God loves us with a megas munificent love surpassing knowledge!

 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Is your God the God of the “tis” or the God of “ta pante”?

God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of the all!

Not “tis”, “ta pante.”

Shackle =

To deprive of freedom especially of action by means of restrictions or handicaps.

To bind/ chain/fetter.

Limitation =

To be deprived of freedom by means of restrictions or handicaps.

Bound/ confine/ limit

"You have limited the Holy One of Israel."
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
The Lord Jesus Christ, the Archegos & Prodromos, has a stacked deck. He not only undoes the fall of Adam, He does it with flair!

In Hebr. 9.14 His blood is posus mallon. In Rom. 11.24 the wild & natural olive branches are in the same posus mallon dimension.

Yes, and this majestic Prince-Leader of Reconciliation not only undoes the despair of Adam, He does it posus mallon!

Mallon =

More.

To a greater degree by far.

Jesus Christ IS the Mallon Saviour of the all/ ta pante.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Big bad Beware ! !

“By the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” -Plan A-

Alternate plan =

By the offence of one judgment came upon some men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon some men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience all were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall some be made righteous."
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Big bad gigantic Beware ! ! !

Humongous

God our Saviour is 100 % SUCCESSFUL.

Plan A =

“God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind, especially those who believe/ trust in Him.”

Alternate plan =

There is NO alternate plan. NONE!

Pay no attention to the Heavenly Anthem of the angelic Host.

The good news is not for “pas”, but only “tis”.

Plan A=

" Behold we bring you good tidings of great joy which will be for pas/ all people."

Alternate plan =

Behold we bring you good tidings of great joy which will be for tis/some people.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
The Lord Jesus Christ proclaims>>>

Plan A =

“When I am lifted up…I will draw/ drag off in power/ ALL (pas) mankind unto Me.”

alternate plan =

When I am lifted up…I will draw/ drag off in power/ some (tis) mankind unto Me."
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
"By the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Dear Saint Paul: Are you discombobulated? Surely those dirty rotten sinners will never be made righteous!

Plan A =

“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all/pas should come to repentance.”

Alternate plan =

The Lord is not longsuffering and is expecting the vast majority of His broken children to perish and never come to repentance.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
“Some have asked what good does it do to believe that God will save all men.

You might as well ask what good it does to believe that God will save some men… Every evangelist believes that it is God’s will to save some men during this present time, or he would not be an evangelist. And if a man does not believe that God will save any men past this present age, what does he expect to be doing in the ages to come?

To what end, then, is such a man’s “sonship” ministry? Why strive and labor to be a Son, to set creation free, if what God is accomplishing in redemption during this present age is all there is…If there is no out-working of redemption in the ages to come, no extension, nor expansion of the kingdom of God beyond the formation of the Body of Christ, they why not settle for the fundamentalist’s version of heaven and content ourselves with spending eternity shouting up and down the golden streets, waving palm branches and strumming harps?” -Preston Eby

J. Preston Eby

Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
‘Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself.

Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: “The period which includes the whole time of one’s life is called the aeon of each one.” Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one’s life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not “a stationary and mechanical value” (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities.

There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.

It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21. Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3. The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity.

It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come.

It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. 1:12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on lying to all eternity. See also Acts 7:51; 2 Cor. 4:11; 6:10; Heb 3:10; 1 Pet. 3:15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject’s life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. “The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum.”

In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons. A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, ‘o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8). The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.

The adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective, in themselves, carry the sense of endless or everlasting.

They may acquire that sense by their connotation, as, on the other hand, aidios, which means everlasting, has its meaning limited to a given point of time in Jude 6. Aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Both the noun and the adjective are applied to limited periods. Thus the phrase eis ton aiona, habitually rendered forever, is often used of duration which is limited in the very nature of the case. See, for a few out of many instances, LXX, Exod 21:6; 29:9; 32:13; Josh. 14:9 1 Sam 8:13; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17; 1 Chron. 28:4;. See also Matt. 21:19; John 13:8 1 Cor. 8:13. The same is true of aionios. Out of 150 instances in LXX, four-fifths imply limited duration. For a few instances see Gen. 48:4; Num. 10:8; 15:15; Prov. 22:28; Jonah 2:6; Hab. 3:6; Isa. 61:17.

Words which are habitually applied to things temporal or material cannot carry in themselves the sense of endlessness. Even when applied to God, we are not forced to render aionios everlasting.

Of course the life of God is endless; but the question is whether, in describing God as aionios, it was intended to describe the duration of his being, or whether some different and larger idea was not contemplated. That God lives longer then men, and lives on everlastingly, and has lived everlastingly, are, no doubt, great and significant facts; yet they are not the dominant or the most impressive facts in God’s relations to time.

God’s eternity does not stand merely or chiefly for a scale of length. It is not primarily a mathematical but a moral fact. The relations of God to time include and imply far more than the bare fact of endless continuance. They carry with them the fact that God transcends time; works on different principles and on a vaster scale than the wisdom of time provides; oversteps the conditions and the motives of time; marshals the successive aeons from a point outside of time, on lines which run out into his own measureless cycles, and for sublime moral ends which the creature of threescore and ten years cannot grasp and does not even suspect. -Dr. Marvin Vincent-

There is a word for everlasting if that idea is demanded.

-Part 1 of 2-
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
_Part 2 of 2
That aiodios occurs rarely in the New Testament and in LXX does not prove that its place was taken by aionios. It rather goes to show that less importance was attached to the bare idea of everlastingness than later theological thought has given it. Paul uses the word once, in Rom. 1:20, where he speaks of “the everlasting power and divinity of God.” In Rom. 16:26 he speaks of the eternal God (tou aioniou theou); but that he does not mean the everlasting God is perfectly clear from the context. He has said that “the mystery” has been kept in silence in times eternal (chronois aioniois), by which he does not mean everlasting times, but the successive aeons which elapsed before Christ was proclaimed. God therefore is described as the God of the aeons, the God who pervaded and controlled those periods before the incarnation. To the same effect is the title ‘o basileus ton aionon, the King of the aeons, applied to God in 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 15:3; compare Tob. 13:6, 10.

The phrase pro chronon aionion, before eternal times (2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2), cannot mean before everlasting times.

To say that God bestowed grace on men, or promised them eternal life before endless times, would be absurd. The meaning is of old, as Luke 1:70. The grace and the promise were given in time, but far back in the ages, before the times of reckoning the aeons.

Zoe aionios eternal life, which occurs 42 times in N. T., but not in LXX, is not endless life, but life pertaining to a certain age or aeon, or continuing during that aeon. I repeat, life may be endless. The life in union with Christ is endless, but the fact is not expressed by aionios. Kolasis aionios, rendered everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), is the punishment peculiar to an aeon other then that in which Christ is speaking. In some cases zoe aionios does not refer specifically to the life beyond time, but rather to the aeon or dispensation of Messiah which succeeds the legal dispensation. See Matt. 19:16; John 5:39. John says that zoe aionios is the present possession of those who believe on the Son of God, John 3:36; 5:24; 6:47,54. The Father’s commandment is zoe aionios, John 1250; to know the only true God and Jesus Christ is zoe aionios. John 17:3.

Bishop Westcott very justly says, commenting upon the terms used by John to describe life under different aspects: “In considering these phrases it is necessary to premise that in spiritual things we must guard against all conclusions which rest upon the notions of succession and duration. ‘Eternal life’ is that which St. Paul speaks of as ‘e outos Zoe the life which is life indeed, and ‘e zoe tou theou, the life of God. It is not an endless duration of being in time, but being of which time is not a measure. We have indeed no powers to grasp the idea except through forms and images of sense. These must be used, but we must not transfer them as realities to another order.”

Thus, while aionios carries the idea of time, though not of endlessness, there belongs to it also, more or less, a sense of quality. Its character is ethical rather than mathematical.

The deepest significance of the life beyond time lies, not in endlessness, but in the moral quality of the aeon into which the life passes. It is comparatively unimportant whether or not the rich fool, when his soul was required of him (Luke 12:20), entered upon a state that was endless. The principal, the tremendous fact, as Christ unmistakably puts it, was that, in the new aeon, the motives, the aims, the conditions, the successes and awards of time counted for nothing. In time, his barns and their contents were everything; the soul was nothing. In the new life the soul was first and everything, and the barns and storehouses nothing. The bliss of the sanctified does not consist primarily in its endlessness, but in the nobler moral conditions of the new aeon, the years of the holy and eternal God. Duration is a secondary idea. When it enters it enters as an accompaniment and outgrowth of moral conditions.

In the present passage it is urged that olethron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition.

If this be true, if olethros is extinction, then the passage teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aionios is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration. But olethros does not always mean destruction or extinction. Take the kindred verb apollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish. Peter says “the world being deluged with water, perished (apoleto, 2 Pet. 3:6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed. In Heb. 1:11,12, quoted from Ps. 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, “they shall perish” (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal. “They shall be changed” (allagesontai). Compare Isa. 51:6,16; 65:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1. Similarly, “the Son of man came to save that which was lost” (apololos), Luke 19:10. Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apololota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 10:6, compare 15:24, “He that shall lose (apolese) his life for my sake shall find it,” Matt. 16:25. Compare Luke 15:6,9,32.

In this passage, the word destruction is qualified.

It is “destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power,” at his second coming, in the new aeon. In other words, it is the severance, at a given point of time, of those who obey not the gospel from the presence and the glory of Christ. Aionios may therefore describe this severance as continuing during the millenial aeon between Christ’s coming and the final judgment; as being for the wicked prolonged throughout that aeon and characteristic of it, or it may describe the severance as characterising or enduring through a period or aeon succeeding the final judgment, the extent of which period is not defined. In neither case is aionios, to be interpreted as everlasting or endless.

If we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5). Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?

Also, if we cross-reference olethros with 1Co. 5:5, with its derivative olothrūo in He. 11:28, we will see that utter annihilation does not fit. For example, take the extermination of the “first-born” of Egypt (He. 11:28): Were all these innocent babies utterly annihilated before God? Also, though Satan destroys the flesh of the saved, we know God restores it in the resurrection (1Co. 5:5).

Even were God to utterly annihilate someone, has He not the power to restore (De. 32:39; 1Sa. 2:6; Mt. 3:9)?
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
I believe the association of fire with purification in both old and new testaments is easily traceable.

In the old testament the prophetic analogy of silver being purified by fire is classically representative of the purification theme of the Bible.

Typically true of him, Paul, gets to the heart of the matter when he writes about every man’s work being tried by fire, yet the man, himself, being saved. John, whose theology parallels Paul’s more explicit style, with a more implicit style of his own, makes it a point to call the lake in question not only the lake of fire, but also of brimstone, which is an old word for sulfur. With sulfur being a common agent of ceremonial purification in temples of worship in ancient times, I think the association is obvious in the Book of Revelation.

Now, to specifically address the possibility that John means to convey destruction rather than purification, let me say that neither scripture nor science recognizes the destruction of anything in the sense of annihilation, that is, of anything being reduced to a state of absolute nothingness. Destruction does not render anything nonexistent, but rather incapable of carrying out its function, as in the destruction of a tank in warfare. The mass of metal is still there, but it can’t function as a tank any longer.

Even if you were to vaporize the tank completely, yet, it’s intrinsic elements would still exist in other forms. Contrary to conventional theology, all things were not created from nothing, and none of the things that have been created will ever face nonexistence, and by that I mean nonexistence in any form. All created things are subject to change, change in form, but not subject to losing their intrinsic existence.

So, what we have in the process of purification by fire is, first, a separation of the object of purification from all that defiles it, all that is foreign to it’s intrinsic constitution, and then the removal of the corrupting element(s). But, as all analogies and parables fall short, in some way, of fully representing the truth they are meant to convey, so is the case here. (I think Bible teachers speak of parables not walking on all fours).

In the case of death and Hades being cast into the lake of fire and a separating of these foreign elements of corruption from the persons who are subjected to the divine flame, it is clear that the persons are saved; they are delivered from the corruption to which they were subjected, but other scripture indicates that death, that last (ultimate) enemy is not merely discarded, but is swallowed up in victory.

The Holy Spirit very specifically inspired Paul to write of swallowing up and not mere discarding and certainly not annihilation. When something is swallowed it undergoes a quite remarkable process whereby it becomes, physically speaking, part and parcel of the swallower himself. It is transformed into blood, bone and tissue and has become integral to the person’s body. The Book of Hebrews uses the analogy of shaking. Everything that can be shaken will be removed by that shaking, but what then?

This brings us to the depth and extent of reconciliation in the economy of God. Certainly, God has reconciled the alienated person to Himself in Christ, that is undeniable in the scripture, but beyond that, God does not defeat death and the place/Hades [the capacity and potential] of death, by merely removing them. He takes alienation, enmity and hostility themselves and reconstitutes them back into the grace out of which they first proceeded. In a word, God defeats his enemies by transforming them into friends.

At the heart of the message of the Book of Revelation is majestic statement of Him who sits upon the throne, “Behold, I make ALL THINGS new.” God loses nothing. The loss of anything does not compute when it comes to God. He created good and evil, the prophet said, and in the end, all things return to God that “He might be all in all.”

What a God, -John R. Gavazzoni
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
2edf657ffc2c2dd7a875e97d65c084b2d805f70c.jpeg
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
LARGE BEWARE ! ! !

Plan A =

"God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind...."

He is the Lifeguard of all lifeguards!

Alternate plan b =

Sorry: the lifeguard will not save you, you did not ask him.
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Surrounding the Aleph & Tav

"And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubim, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone/ tarshish stone.

And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.

When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went.

And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had.

As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing.

And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

And the cherubim were lifted up. This is the living creature that I saw by the river of Chebar.

And when the cherubim went, the wheels went by them: and when the cherubim lifted up their wings to mount up from the earth, the same wheels also turned not from beside them."

Antiphonal Worship

I saw the Lord, high and exalted, seated on a throne; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him were seraphim, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. And they were calling to one another:

‘Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory.’

At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook and the temple was filled with smoke

‘Woe to me!’ I cried. ‘I am ruined’! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.’ Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. With it he touched my mouth and said, ‘See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away.’

7c18ce5ce72a701b0a0a6f94b567a92908673ff5.jpeg
 

FineLinen

Well-Known Member
Dear friend: Welcome to a link that declares our God successful in His call to a broken creation. His Reach is not unsuccessful in the slightest degree, He accomplishes what has always been at-one-ment!

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

Note:

1. These individuals were "disobedient" & judged accordingly as "men in flesh".

2. The outcome of Jesus Christ ministering to these disobedient "dead" = "live according to God in the spirit.”

zao =

Zao - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top