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Catholicism's Spirituality

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
On a thread being discussed yesterday, I was asked to get into Catholic "spiritualism" based on what that person was told by someone that is intrinsic to the faith. I'm going to be brief here for two reasons, with one being I'd rather post a bit and then let the person/people respond as to maybe where to go next, and also that I have time problems as I'm leaving shortly.

At pretty much every mass, the pace tends to be s-l-o-w, and that is for the reason, which is to encouraging us to think about what's going on and what's being said. Also, we are encouraged to pray the Rosary on our own time, and that is really a form of meditation/contemplation with the words of the Rosary being used much like a Buddhist or Hindu would use a "mantra".

We know from scripture that Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets often went into secluded places to use a form of meditative prayer, especially during tough times or times when one may have to make an important decision. Communal prayers definitely have their place in worship, but sometimes we just need to do our own prayers matched, not just with talking, but also with "listening". Sometimes we need to take a step back from the hustle and bustle of daily life and "connect the dots". This approach may not be exciting, but at least to me it's quite beneficial.

Anyhow, I'll stop at this point and see if there are any questions or comments, and I'll be back later today.

Take care.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
On a thread being discussed yesterday, I was asked to get into Catholic "spiritualism" based on what that person was told by someone that is intrinsic to the faith. I'm going to be brief here for two reasons, with one being I'd rather post a bit and then let the person/people respond as to maybe where to go next, and also that I have time problems as I'm leaving shortly.

At pretty much every mass, the pace tends to be s-l-o-w, and that is for the reason, which is to encouraging us to think about what's going on and what's being said. Also, we are encouraged to pray the Rosary on our own time, and that is really a form of meditation/contemplation with the words of the Rosary being used much like a Buddhist or Hindu would use a "mantra".

We know from scripture that Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets often went into secluded places to use a form of meditative prayer, especially during tough times or times when one may have to make an important decision. Communal prayers definitely have their place in worship, but sometimes we just need to do our own prayers matched, not just with talking, but also with "listening". Sometimes we need to take a step back from the hustle and bustle of daily life and "connect the dots". This approach may not be exciting, but at least to me it's quite beneficial.

Anyhow, I'll stop at this point and see if there are any questions or comments, and I'll be back later today.

Take care.


Meditating on truth particularly truths of scripture and reflecting on it should be a goal

One of my concerns with overly loud repetitive music is it isn't conducive to reflection.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
On a thread being discussed yesterday, I was asked to get into Catholic "spiritualism" based on what that person was told by someone that is intrinsic to the faith. I'm going to be brief here for two reasons, with one being I'd rather post a bit and then let the person/people respond as to maybe where to go next, and also that I have time problems as I'm leaving shortly.

At pretty much every mass, the pace tends to be s-l-o-w, and that is for the reason, which is to encouraging us to think about what's going on and what's being said. Also, we are encouraged to pray the Rosary on our own time, and that is really a form of meditation/contemplation with the words of the Rosary being used much like a Buddhist or Hindu would use a "mantra".

We know from scripture that Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets often went into secluded places to use a form of meditative prayer, especially during tough times or times when one may have to make an important decision. Communal prayers definitely have their place in worship, but sometimes we just need to do our own prayers matched, not just with talking, but also with "listening". Sometimes we need to take a step back from the hustle and bustle of daily life and "connect the dots". This approach may not be exciting, but at least to me it's quite beneficial.

Anyhow, I'll stop at this point and see if there are any questions or comments, and I'll be back later today.

Take care.
Wilderness=solitude=being in one own inner chamber. E.g. "Our Father..." is a mantra.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Not being a Catholic or even a Christian, I have an outsiders question. As an admirer of St. Francis of Assisi's life and essential message, I wonder to what extent Catholics' spiritual life is influenced by his life and teaching today?
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Not being a Catholic or even a Christian, I have an outsiders question. As an admirer of St. Francis of Assisi's life and essential message, I wonder to what extent Catholics' spiritual life is influenced by his life and teaching today?

In a big way, would be the simplest answer. He was known as alter Christus, that is living icon of Christ, by his contemporaries.

He is the most popular of all Western canonised saints. "A sun was born into the world" is simply how Dante Alighieri describes the birth of St. Francis of Assisi in his Divine Comedy (Paradiso, Canto XI) in 1320.

Its not for just any reason that the current Holy Father assumed the papal name of "Francis" in imitation of the Poor Man of Assisi.

Do you know why Catholics today have 'nativity scenes / plays' in churches or schools during Advent / Christmas? It's because of St. Francis:

Nativity scene - Wikipedia

Saint Francis of Assisi is credited with creating the first live nativity scene in 1223 in order to cultivate the worship of Christ. He himself had recently been inspired by his visit to the Holy Land, where he'd been shown Jesus's traditional birthplace. The scene's popularity inspired communities throughout Catholic countries to stage similar pantomimes.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not being a Catholic or even a Christian, I have an outsiders question. As an admirer of St. Francis of Assisi's life and essential message, I wonder to what extent Catholics' spiritual life is influenced by his life and teaching today?
Even though there are many within the faith we admire, no doubt that he's one of the standouts for many of us. Matter of fact, my favorite Catholic hymn is the "Prayer of St. Francis", and one can access that on YouTube.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I'll stop at this point and see if there are any questions or comments

Well, I feel a little overwhelmed right now. I have so many questions.

I guess I'll start with asking about 3 significant concepts. Perhaps you or someone else can help me better understand these through the lens of Catholicism?

  1. In Catholicism is the Soul eternal?
  2. In Catholicism is God Omnipotent?
  3. In Catholicism are Jewish people who do not accept Christ going to Hell?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
In Catholicism is the Soul eternal?
Yes.

In Catholicism is God Omnipotent?
Yes.

In Catholicism are Jewish people who do not accept Christ going to Hell?
The only teaching that maybe gets close to that is that if a person properly understands who Jesus was and what he taught but still rejects him, their salvation could be in jeopardy.

However, the reality is that even the hierarchy really doesn't get into that because of all the if-ands-and butts that could be involved. Recent popes have made it clear that demonizing Jews caused many problems historically and that it is not our role to judge others as tat's beyond our pay-grade.

BTW, I studied the Holocaust in Poland and Israel back in 1991, and the Church there was adamant that we are not to judge. One of the Polish priests who had connections within the Jewish community was directly in contact with the Vatican to make sure that anti-Semitism didn't again raise its ugly head, and the Church has vowed to fight it if it does.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
BTW, as a follow-up to my last post, there's quite a bit of discretion left up to individual discernment. The view is that one of Church's main roles is to teach, but then it's largely up to us how to deal with it as a matter of conscience. The exception to that rule is if one teaches within the Church, they must teach what the Church teaches.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
BTW, I studied the Holocaust in Poland and Israel back in 1991, and the Church there was adamant that we are not to judge.
If I recall... many lives were saved because Catholics helped to hide Jews who were in danger.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
In Catholicism is God Omnipotent?

The reason I brought this up is because ( if i understand ) most Christian denominations do not claim the God is omnipotent because that would overrule Satan's role as the ultimate evil force which operates Counter to Divine Will.

So, in light o this, my next questions are:

What is the Catholic concept of Satan? Does Satan exist? Is Satan operating outside of God's divine will?
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
  • In Catholicism are Jewish people who do not accept Christ going to Hell?

No.
36. From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God. Such a claim would find no support in the soteriological understanding of Saint Paul, who in the Letter to the Romans not only gives expression to his conviction that there can be no breach in the history of salvation, but that salvation comes from the Jews (cf. also Jn 4:22). God entrusted Israel with a unique mission, and He does not bring his mysterious plan of salvation for all peoples (cf. 1 Tim 2:4) to fulfilment without drawing into it his "first-born son" (Ex 4:22). From this it is self-evident that Paul in the Letter to the Romans definitively negates the question he himself has posed, whether God has repudiated his own people. Just as decisively he asserts: "For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable" (Rom 11:29). That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery. It is therefore no accident that Paul’s soteriological reflections in Romans 9-11 on the irrevocable redemption of Israel against the background of the Christ-mystery culminate in a magnificent doxology: "Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways" (Rom 11:33).
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
No.
36. From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God. Such a claim would find no support in the soteriological understanding of Saint Paul, who in the Letter to the Romans not only gives expression to his conviction that there can be no breach in the history of salvation, but that salvation comes from the Jews (cf. also Jn 4:22). God entrusted Israel with a unique mission, and He does not bring his mysterious plan of salvation for all peoples (cf. 1 Tim 2:4) to fulfilment without drawing into it his "first-born son" (Ex 4:22). From this it is self-evident that Paul in the Letter to the Romans definitively negates the question he himself has posed, whether God has repudiated his own people. Just as decisively he asserts: "For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable" (Rom 11:29). That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery. It is therefore no accident that Paul’s soteriological reflections in Romans 9-11 on the irrevocable redemption of Israel against the background of the Christ-mystery culminate in a magnificent doxology: "Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways" (Rom 11:33).
Wow. Thank you very much, pcarl.

This post is a "keeper" ( meaning I'll probably re-read this a few times and try to memorize its content ).
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Does Satan exist?
At least traditionally, the answer is yes. I, however, have my doubts.

Is Satan operating outside of God's divine will?
No. Such a belief would limit God's ultimate power.

Again, I tend to think that Satan is more likely part of our "free will", whereas we all too often will choose not to do the right things.

BTW, than you for your most respectful questions and approach.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
In Catholicism are Jewish people who do not accept Christ going to Hell?
That was pretty much the traditional teaching, yes. And that was for anyone outside of the Catholic Church. The Orthodox were viewed as damned heretics, too. They've moderated their views because of the Holocaust and don't give a definite answer either way these days.
 

Jesuslightoftheworld

The world has nothing to offer us!
Well, I feel a little overwhelmed right now. I have so many questions.

I guess I'll start with asking about 3 significant concepts. Perhaps you or someone else can help me better understand these through the lens of Catholicism?

  1. In Catholicism is the Soul eternal?
  2. In Catholicism is God Omnipotent?
  3. In Catholicism are Jewish people who do not accept Christ going to Hell?

I just wanted to say that I do not believe Catholism and Christianity are one in the same. Please respond.
 
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