Religions and cultural appropriation

My spirituality is a mix of Roman Catholicism, Japanese Shintoism, and native-American Shamanism, with extra emphasis on the Shinto devotion to Amaterasu, and firm desire to have no Dogmas, no Scripture, and no founder, so no one fights and divides over Doctrines related to an invisible entity (s), and practicioners can be more devoted to the Kami (spirits), without distractions or dividing into sects. That's essentially what the Dogmaless, scriptureless, founderless Religion of Shintoism is all about.

Sadly, only about two percent of the Japanese people identify as Shinto adherents these days, largely because of the humiliating loss of world war 2, and the Emperor confessing that he is not a descendant of the sun Divinity Amaterasu.

They still have an Emperor who is the only person on earth with that title and it is the oldest dynasty on Earth. I'm hoping and praying for the coming of a Shinto Messiah who will bring the land of the Kami back to their roots and very special Faith, as well as exalt the Imperial dynasty and the Imperial spirits and the kamikazee pilots and 2,400,000 + divinities of Yasukuni shrine who gave their lives for the Emperor since the reign of Meiji.

Prime minister Shinzo Abe is trying to do some of that, for the sacred land of the rising sun, (God help him). I do think the Shinto adherents might find me odd and possibly even offensive, beings that I'm not Japanese, that it might border on culture theft, especially since I also pray to the God of Jacob (Israel). I just see it as the creator spirit is the highest Kami who created the Sun, stars ,the the planets, earth, Amaterasu, and all creature and Kami. Shintoism can blend perfectly with all faiths and bind them together with a common bond.

I think cultural appropriation is a good thing as far as Religions/spiritualities go. It's good to synchronize and bind good qualities together I'm guessing.

Your thoughts?

PopeADope said:

My spirituality is a mix of Roman Catholicism, Japanese Shintoism, and native-American Shamanism, with extra emphasis on the Shinto devotion to Amaterasu, and firm desire to have no Dogmas, no Scripture, and no founder, so no one fights and divides over Doctrines related to an invisible entity (s), and practicioners can be more devoted to the Kami (spirits), without distractions or dividing into sects. That's essentially what the Dogmaless, scriptureless, founderless Religion of Shintoism is all about.

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WHOA!

you have been very busy

I too am not given to dogma
I speak of it only as a launching point to rebuttal

PopeADope said:

I think cultural appropriation is a good thing as far as Religions/spiritualities go.

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I agree

as long as the ritual is understood as gesture....
and not an action to induce a Greater Spirit

the Spirit moves of it's own volition

This is in the religious debate section because the goal is to have a debate about cultural appropriation in regard to matters that involve anything with a religious nature.

Thief said:

I agree

as long as the ritual is understood as gesture....
and not an action to induce a Greater Spirit

the Spirit moves of it's own volition

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The spirit can be pleased and change his/her mind if the intercessor goes about it right and this can positively affect people.

The God of Jacob was going to destroy Israel and Moses got God to change his mind and "repent of the evil he was going to do to Israel". Keep that in mind when conversing with high and mighty ancient spirits.

PopeADope said:

The spirit can be pleased and change his/her mind if the intercessor goes about it right and this can positively affect people.

The God of Jacob was going to destroy Israel and Moses got God to change his mind and "repent of the evil he was going to do to Israel". Keep that in mind when conversing with high and mighty ancient spirits.

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I recall the story

but I don't think any ritual or appeasement was offered
no gesture

and I recall an episode.....Would you spare the city if one hundred believed and repented?
yes

Would you spare the city if ten believed and repented?
yes

Would you spare the city if only one believed and repented?
yes

and God sent two angels to warn the one......Get OUT!

and then the city was destroyed

seems to me.....the bargaining should have stopped a little sooner

Thief said:

WHOA!

you have been very busy

I too am not given to dogma
I speak of it only as a launching point to rebuttal

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I've been very busy trying to find a way to bring all Religions together, and Shintoism, and their ability to have relationship and devotion to Kami (spirits) without Dogma seems to be the answer, that Shintoism can infiltrate and blend with all Spiritualities, binding all Religions together under a common bond, where everyone gets a long under the banner of the rising sun, whose divine rays give life and light to all the earth.

My dream is that Japan becomes the 51st state of America, and we change our name to "the Empire of the rising sun". Japan has the third greatest economy and if we rearmed them, they would have the greatest military in Asia to keep China and North Korea in check.

They would fight all our battles for us because the Japanese love to die for their Emperor so their names can be written in the Yasukuni book of souls which the Emperor and prime Minister bow before. If state-shintoism returned to Japan, the Japanese military was rearmed, and Japan became best buddies with America, and Americans adopted their own form of American Shinto, and kept a Yasukuni shrine in honor of our war dead, and formed an alliance with Russia (mother bear who has brought prayer back to schools and allied Church with state), we could be an unbelievable unbreakable Fasces and spiritual powerhouse that stands invincible.

Amaterasu, I know you have it in you! May almighty God and the heavenly host convert to shintoism and make it happen, in Jesus name!


Other nations would want to join. Mexico could join and become the 52nd state of America. Then no need for a wall. If they so badly want to be American, let's make them American. It would be awesome!

Thief said:

I recall the story

but I don't think any ritual or appeasement was offered
no gesture

and I recall an episode.....Would you spare the city if one hundred believed and repented?
yes

Would you spare the city if ten believed and repented?
yes

Would you spare the city if only one believed and repented?
yes

and God sent two angels to warn the one......Get OUT!

and then the city was destroyed

seems to me.....the bargaining should have stopped a little sooner

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You are talking about Sodom and Gomorrah. That is a totally different story.

May the drug lords be vanquished and Mexico become one with the United States.

There is no such thing as "cultural appropriation" as culture is not property, and all cultures have evolved via interaction with and adaptation of other cultures.

This doesn't negate the moral imperative to be respectful in dealing with diverse cultures of course, but the idea of "cultural appropriation" creates more problems than it solves.

@PopeADope
You have gone from espousing Mussolini to Shinto in Japan. I suppose Shinto was justification for imperialist nationalism. But there is something beautiful and profound in Shinto and it coexisted with Buddhism for centuries each drawing inspiration from the other.

Christianity has fused somewhat with the beliefs of indigenous peoples in many places. Where I live in New Zealand Maori spirituality and Christianity coexist in a religion called the Ratana movement.

Rātana - Wikipedia

Christianity blends the Jewish scriptures with the Revelation Jesus brought. Islam builds on both Judaism and Christianity with Muhammad’s Revelation as recorded in the Quran. The Baha’i Faith progresses in a similar manner with Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh.

Buddhism emerged from the Indian subcontinent and was in part a reaction to religions that make up Hinduism today.

So while each faith builds on what has gone before it must also be founded on something new and more in harmony with the new age from which it emerges.

adrian009 said:

@PopeADope
You have gone from espousing Mussolini to Shinto in Japan. I suppose Shinto was justification for imperialist nationalism. But there is something beautiful and profound in Shinto and it coexisted with Buddhism for centuries each drawing inspiration from the other.

Christianity has fused somewhat with the beliefs of indigenous peoples in many places. Where I live in New Zealand Maori spirituality and Christianity coexist in a religion called the Ratana movement.

Rātana - Wikipedia

Christianity blends the Jewish scriptures with the Revelation Jesus brought. Islam builds on both Judaism and Christianity with Muhammad’s Revelation as recorded in the Quran. The Baha’i Faith progresses in a similar manner with Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh.

Buddhism emerged from the Indian subcontinent and was in part a reaction to religions that make up Hinduism today.

So while each faith builds on what has gone before it must also be founded on something new and more in harmony with the new age from which it emerges.

Click to expand...

Mussolini was an ally with Japan in World War 2 and Mussolini's religion blended perfectly with Japanese State-Shintoism and worship of enshrined heroes. I believe the spirits of Yasukuni Shrine and Mussolini work together.

Beautiful post though! Yes, Buddhism and Shintoism intertwine fabulously.

Augustus said:

There is no such thing as "cultural appropriation" as culture is not property, and all cultures have evolved via interaction with and adaptation of other cultures.

This doesn't negate the moral imperative to be respectful in dealing with diverse cultures of course, but the idea of "cultural appropriation" creates more problems than it solves.

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I mostly agree with this. I think there are times when it becomes problematic to take another person's culture out of the original context and market it, cheapening the symbols and experiences (for instance, Native Headresses in America), however, I do agree that all culture is about assimilated aspects of other cultures. Humans are free to explore human culture--respectfully.

Augustus said:

There is no such thing as "cultural appropriation" as culture is not property, and all cultures have evolved via interaction with and adaptation of other cultures.

This doesn't negate the moral imperative to be respectful in dealing with diverse cultures of course, but the idea of "cultural appropriation" creates more problems than it solves.

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That's pretty spot on.

Cultural appropriation as a concept requires you to determine what constitutes a cultural practice, who can claim to belong to a given culture and in many cases who belongs to a particular race. The last one is especially tricky but all of them present problems. Does my use of a lighter when I have a cigarette necessitate reflection on German history of invention? I'm not German myself and have no immediate German ancestry that I'm aware of. However, I was born in England which makes it very likely I have German ancestry somewhere down the line. That's a petty example but hopefully it demonstrates how culture extends beyond the immediately obvious and how determining when somebody has an ancestral claim to that culture becomes ridiculously convoluted.

The sad irony is that while I generally believe the people who use the phrase have good intentions, they end up making the same arguments as supremacists. Norse Paganism for example has some fringe groups who view Norse mythology, history and cultural practices as belonging only to white people. Fortunately the majority of Norse Pagans aren't like that.

Erebus said:

Cultural appropriation as a concept requires you to determine what constitutes a cultural practice, who can claim to belong to a given culture and in many cases who belongs to a particular race. The last one is especially tricky but all of them present problems. Does my use of a lighter when I have a cigarette necessitate reflection on German history of invention? I'm not German myself and have no immediate German ancestry that I'm aware of. However, I was born in England which makes it very likely I have German ancestry somewhere down the line. That's a petty example but hopefully it demonstrates how culture extends beyond the immediately obvious and how determining when somebody has an ancestral claim to that culture becomes ridiculously convoluted.

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You need to do one of those DNA tests and when you find out your are "2% German" you'll be free to wear lederhosen while playing an alphorn and drinking a giant beer stein without fear of reprisal

Erebus said:

The sad irony is that while I generally believe the people who use the phrase have good intentions, they end up making the same arguments as supremacists. Norse Paganism for example has some fringe groups who view Norse mythology, history and cultural practices as belonging only to white people. Fortunately the majority of Norse Pagans aren't like that.

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Unfortunately, I think that a lot of modern 'woke' politics, while well meaning, is extremely counterproductive.

Setting strict boundaries regarding what it is 'permissible' for people of different races to do, and appointing themselves as the arbiters of this. Massively expanding concepts like white supremacism and racism so they become almost meaningless this affording cover to the genuine article. Essentialising racial groups and creating meaningless terms like 'person of colour' that divide the world into 'pure' whites and 'the rest'. Perhaps worst of all is forcing people to be continually cognisant of racial difference as studies have shown that the more you make people focus on the differences between group the more they discriminate against them (which is not exactly surprising).

It's basically a form of evangelical puritanism for the post-religious complete with a hatred of 'heresy' i.e. anyone who doesn't accept the totality of their ideology and is therefore a 'white supremacist'. Which is why white 'progressive activists', desperately trying to atone for their sin of 'white privilege', on average score higher than minority groups on measure of 'wokeness'.

PopeADope said:

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May the drug lords be vanquished and Mexico become one with the United States.

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I have threads about that

we should annex Mexico
apply US law
and taxes

that'll fix em

why come here
when we can do it to them THERE