Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
I heard someone say that ouija boards talk to the ghosts of dead people.Were did this idea first pop up?And why do people believe they are talking to the ghosts of dead people.Instead of demons?
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Question about something that is bothering me.
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
Ouija - Wikipedia
As for why people believe they talk to ghosts instead of demons, there are more viewpoints in the world than the Christian one. Christians often have a tendancy to see only two options. That which is of god, and that which is of the world. This viewpoint makes it almost impossible to reach honest conclusions IMO, as one already has their answers before they even begin to look.
“One of the first mentions of the automatic writing method used in the ouija board is found in China around 1100 AD, in historical documents of the Song Dynasty. The method was known as fuji "planchette writing". The use of planchette writing as an ostensible means of necromancy and communion with the spirit-world continued, and, albeit under special rituals and supervisions, was a central practice of the Quanzhen School, until it was forbidden by the Qing Dynasty.[13] Several entire scriptures of the Daozang are supposedly works of automatic planchette writing. According to one author, similar methods of mediumistic spirit writing have been practiced in ancient India, Greece, Rome, and medieval Europe.[14]”
Ouija - Wikipedia
I asked them if they were demons, and then I pushed the planchette to ‘no,’ so I know they’re not demons.
Ouija - Wikipedia
I asked them if they were demons, and then I pushed the planchette to ‘no,’ so I know they’re not demons.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
From the JW perspective, this is because of the belief promoted in most religions about an immortal soul. This feeds the notion that former humans inhabit the spirit realm. They don't. Dead people are in their graves. They are not conscious of anything. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)
The spirit realm has only two kinds of inhabitants.....angels and demons. God forbade communication with the spirit realm because only the demons will try to fool humans in to believing the first lie told by their leader...."you surely will not die". This translated into the belief that life continues after death. God never said that it did. He told Adam that death meant only a return to the dust, not to a life in some kind of spirit realm.
The inhabitants of the Promised Land (the Canaanites) held many false beliefs that the Israelites were forbidden to adopt.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12....God told them....
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. "
God leaves us in no doubt....Ouija boards are not communicating with the dead...but with demons impersonating them......trying to fool those who have not bothered to check out the scriptures for themselves, they have left themselves wide open to deception.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
All dead things are ghost, and some ghost are demons.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
You might be better off talking with living persons who know something rather than dead persons who know nothing.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Can you show where demons are said to impersonate dead people?
1 Samuel 28:3-19.
This is the account of the witch of Endor who supposedly summoned the 'ghost' of the prophet Samuel.
The account begins with....
"Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned him and had buried him in Raʹmah, his own city.+ And Saul had removed the spirit mediums and the fortune-tellers from the land." (see Leviticus 19:31; Leviticus 20:6; 27)
Saul had cleared the land of all spirit mediums at Jehovah's command. Because of the practice of the Canaanites to consult with the dead, (a form of spiritism) God warned Israel that they were not to adopt the ways of the people they were displacing. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) They did not obey their God.
According to verse 6, Saul had tried to communicate with Jehovah through his living prophets, but God would not speak with him by any means. In verse 7, in desperation Saul resorted to a practice that his God had outlawed. Now, would God permit a dead prophet to speak with a disobedient King through a means that he forbade, when his living prophets refused to communicate with him?
The 'spirit' brought up by the woman could not have been Samuel, but a demon impersonating him. In the account, only the woman could see "Samuel" and hear his words. Saul relied on the medium to tell him what the spirit said.
There you have a Biblical example.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
I was asking you to show where it it said that demons impersonate dead persons. It's not testified by the text that a demon was impersonating Samuel, therefore it is only your opinion that it was demon impersonating Samuel.
Do have have any real support for your claim?
Didn’t you just get through posting, “You might be better off talking with living persons who know something rather than dead persons who know nothing”?
And keep in mind Psalms 115:17; Genesis 3:19.
It’s only at the Resurrection when the dead will “come to life.” — Revelation 20:5.
So, who else could it be? The demons.
This explains why God forbids His worshippers to “inquire of the dead”; it’s classified along w/ magic, casting spells, and fortune telling. — Deuteronomy 18:10-12.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Don't you even realize that it's only your opinion that it was a demon impersonating Samuel? The text says NOTHING like that!Good grief....
The text is unclear as to what actually took place but you seem convinced of your own idea.
Perhaps you can show clearly where the text speaks of demons impersonating dead people since that is what you claim they do.
Demons are spoken of frequently in the N.T. so perhaps you can show where they impersonate dead people there. It would certainly help your cause if you could.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Commentators have suggested that it was actually Samuel and that God was the one who caused him to be raised from the dead.
The woman was surprised when she saw "gods" ascending from the earth because she was a fraud just like all mediums today are frauds.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
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LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Another plausible suggestion is that it was not Samuel at all, but God had sent one of His angels to make Saul and the medium think it was Samuel for the purpose of again informing Saul that he was to die.
In any case, your teaching is not explicitly stated in the text and is therefore only your interpretation or opinion of what took place, and since you have no other testimony to back up what you claim, it might be wise not to make claims you can't support. because you can fool some, but not all.
Are you serious? How is this "plausible", but satan sending one of his own through a forbidden practice, is not? Does God break his own laws?
Samuel was not resurrected....the medium was the only one who saw and heard "him". The scriptures clearly indicate why spiritistic practices invite the demons. We are to oppose him...not invite him. (James 4:7)
Why were all forms of spiritism an abomination to God? For goodness sake...what is this blindness?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
James 4:7 says "resist THE DEVIL...." it does NOT say "resist the demons..."
Can THE DEVIL be in two places at once?
He can if he resides in all of us. The devil is simply a personification of the lust of the flesh. For example, Paul says, "walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh".
So, when James says, "resist the devil and he will flee from you" it is the same as to say "resist the desires of the flesh and it will pass".
LOOK at the CONTEXT!
Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Romans 8:4
so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 13:14
Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 5:24
Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Galatians 5:25
Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:3
At one time we all lived among them, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.
1 Peter 2:11
Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul.
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LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
The reason God does not want his people to seek mediums is because it is a false idea that people can contact dead people. The dead are dead and not living. Therefore it goes against the truth.
Now, you say "The scriptures clearly indicate why spiritistic practices invite the demons. We are to oppose him...not invite him."
WHERE does the Scripture CLEARLY indicate spiritistic practices invite the demons?
The only text you can offer is the medium and Saul which says nothing about any demons whatsoever.