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The Future of the Left

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
whether I like it or not, there no longer seems to be a place for someone with far left sympathies in the world. The 1980’s and the collapse of communism represented a historic and global defeat which sent the far left in to decline.

In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis there were grounds for hope, but it was superficial. There was a revival of interest in Marxism (and Kenysianism) as people came to grips with the failure of neo-liberal capitalism to deliver continuous growth. Income inequality became a political issue with the occupy movement taking to the streets around the world and Thomas Picketty publishing his “capital in the 21st century”. A small cottage industry of intellectuals began to reinvestigate the far left, among them Slavoj Zizek.

The 2015 UK election saw the stirrings of intense green party support amongst young people, culminating in extinction rebellion (UK) and the sunrise movement (US) and greta Thunberg starting a wave of school strikes across the world. This existential threat to our future generated interest in a “Green New Deal” after the 2018 mid-terms with socialists in congress such as Alexandrea Cortez.

We’ve seen the stirrings of a range of movements in “identity politics” such as black lives matter and the me too movement which deals with discrimination and various forms of oppression based on race, gender and sexual orientation. The rise of the far right has been met by antifascists or “antifa” as people try to resist the alt-right.

Polling shows a rise in popularity of socialism and communism amongst young people as millennials recognise that the dreams of the consumer economy will never be realised. The combination of unemployment, job insecurity, low pay, limited opportunities for advancement, a culture of personal debt, the shift towards rented accommodation away from home ownership (assuming we ever leave our parents house), rising price of car insurance, punitive and almost non-existent welfare support from the state and the unpayable burden of university tuition fees come together in a toxic cocktail of resentment and frustration against capitalism as a system.

This has not surprisingly spurred the initial popularity of left wing candidates such as Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders, much to the shock and horror of the more corporate-centrist establishment in both the Labour Party and the Democratic Party.

But all of this suffers an achilles heel (and I say this with some reservations)- it’s passionately anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist. It hates its own past and refuses to learn from its mistakes and think itself above, beyond or outside of history and exceptional because it is in a present isolated from all precedents. We reject organisation, discipline and theory for spontaneous unrest and “consciousness raising” on social media. It seems it is destined either to repeat past mistakes or else unable to achieve the level of power, influence and “success” of its 20th century counter-parts. We are not heading to communist revolutions in the west (whatever the far right says) and for all the talk about change- everyone shudders at the thought of the next stalin. So right-wing arguments that socialism is opposed to freedom or economic growth remain unchallenged even as demands for social justice gain ground.

It looks away from the history and says “that’s not real socialism” or “that’s fascist-imperialist propaganda”. The level of historical knowledge and theoretical understanding is absolutely minimal and polling datas backs this up. We can see it in how labels of “racist” , “sexist”, “fascist” and “homophobe” are applied as knee jerk reactions and the left has turned against free speech- a major historic reversal from the student unrest in the 60’s and 70’s.

This is all built on the assumption that the present is a unique historical moment devoid of a past- and in doing so- pretty much destroys the capacity to have a future. it burns itself out. Mass movements come and go and no political permanent organisation takes their place able to translate platforms for change in to lasting demands for reform or revolution. When it does come, its an insurgency inside establishment parties (Democrats or Labour) or a pluralistic party of the left that burst on to the scene only then to burn out (Syriza in greece). The establishment wages a civil war to cripple these movements within their parties and hijack popular support in to causes people did not originally set out to support.

[I am focusing on the UK and the US in thinking about this, but you can look around the world at Greece or Venezuela and the signs are that the left cannot sustain its momentum indefinitely.]

we are then surprised when movements on the far right, who are given generous support by wealthy donors and publicity from social media platforms that attack old media (breitbart, infowars) and they are the ones who turn popular resentment in to electoral success (often again insurgencies in established parties such as the Tea Party movement or the Alt-Right). Whilst Corbyn and Sanders get almost no media coverage when they talk about major issues facing ordinary people, Johnson and Trump get wall to wall attention because their incompetence and bigotry is so “entertaining”.

A little more than a decade after the 2008 financial crisis, it has been the far-right (or “alt-right”) that has gained from the resentment and hostility to “elites”. So as we move closer to 2020 and perhaps the most consequential election in US history which would signal a more permanent global shift to right-wing authoritarianism if Donald Trump (or even just Republicans) were re-elected, what do you make of the prospects of a left-wing insurgency so far?

Are we destined to see the success of the far right to continue and the Donald Trump and Boris Johnsons going to become the architects in determining the course of the 21st century? Or will the left make a sustained comeback over the next decade as various social, economic and environmental issues begin to bite?
 
The main problem of the left is one of scale.

You can quite easily run a small commune on such principles, but try to scale this and it falls apart. Reciprocity and community spirit is easy to build on a personal level, but when it is scaled it relies on abstractions which changes its fundamental nature.

The best hope for left-wing politics is localism: reducing the scale of the political unit to the municipal level. Not only does this make social projects much easier to manage, people are more willing to pay into social funds that are spent directly within their local community.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It is just not possible for the current trends to continue. Their very nature is one of unsustainability.

The left will regain prestige, but clearly things will have to get a lot worse indeed before they get better.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
whether I like it or not, there no longer seems to be a place for someone with far left sympathies in the world. The 1980’s and the collapse of communism represented a historic and global defeat which sent the far left in to decline.
A good analyses with just one major fault. The progressive left has a history. Labour in GB, the SPD in Germany and related parties in Europe go back to the 19th century. It's not them who have no history, it's the corporate wing that has, at least less, history. The left has drifted so much to the right that in the US republicans and corporate democrats are nearly indistinguishable. (From a European point of view the US has two parties - the far right and the crazy right.)
The democratic parties adapted to the changing demographic. With less unionized industrial workers they had to find their voters in the "middle". The demographic is changing again. More and more people are either unemployed or work in low paying service jobs. They could be the new left voter - if there is a left to vote for.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This was predicted over 10-years ago by Nick Cohen; I suggest you read his book..

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whats-Left-Lost-Liberals-Their/dp/0007229704/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2UQBRUCYS7P2C&keywords=whats+left+nick+cohen&qid=1576308742&sprefix=whats+left+ni,aps,219&sr=8-1

Cohen is a left-winger but hated the likes of Corbyn

I've got my mum to order a copy for £3. So I'll read it over December. ;)

It is just not possible for the current trends to continue. Their very nature is one of unsustainability.

The left will regain prestige, but clearly things will have to get a lot worse indeed before they get better.

I think we are probably about to find out.

A good analyses with just one major fault. The progressive left has a history. Labour in GB, the SPD in Germany and related parties in Europe go back to the 19th century. It's not them who have no history, it's the corporate wing that has, at least less, history. The left has drifted so much to the right that in the US republicans and corporate democrats are nearly indistinguishable. (From a European point of view the US has two parties - the far right and the crazy right.)
The democratic parties adapted to the changing demographic. With less unionized industrial workers they had to find their voters in the "middle". The demographic is changing again. More and more people are either unemployed or work in low paying service jobs. They could be the new left voter - if there is a left to vote for.

Very true. But I am struggling to see how the "old labour" and new deal "old democrats" will regain ascendency in their own parties or form of government. That is definitely a blind spot on my part. :)
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
The left might have had a chance if a more charismatic leader and someone a lot better than Corbyn had been elected - and who acted accordingly. No one available? Then that perhaps says a lot about the left-wing - being more like a student union - and what happened was more like a bull in a china shop than a serious attempt at making them electable. But then, I doubt the appeal of the left is great enough to win over the majority of the populace anyway, even if many of the policies might appeal. These two articles say what I tend to agree with:

This is a repudiation of Corbynism. Labour needs to ditch the politics of the sect | Jonathan Freedland
Devoid of agility, charisma and credibility, Corbyn has led Labour into the abyss | Polly Toynbee

And as I've no doubt mentioned, I do tend to have more left-wing sympathies. No idea what will happen in the future though - apart from the obvious (lack of) popularity waning even further. :oops:
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The main problem of the left is one of scale.

You can quite easily run a small commune on such principles, but try to scale this and it falls apart. Reciprocity and community spirit is easy to build on a personal level, but when it is scaled it relies on abstractions which changes its fundamental nature.

The best hope for left-wing politics is localism: reducing the scale of the political unit to the municipal level. Not only does this make social projects much easier to manage, people are more willing to pay into social funds that are spent directly within their local community.
Very insightful comment indeed.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
The main problem of the left is one of scale.

You can quite easily run a small commune on such principles, but try to scale this and it falls apart. Reciprocity and community spirit is easy to build on a personal level, but when it is scaled it relies on abstractions which changes its fundamental nature..

This is ultimately true, but remains the same for most political philosophies. Capitalism, for example, when it is small scale and relegated to a small community, is easier to manage and not as dangerous to resources and human health and wellbeing.
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
The main problem of the left is one of scale.

You can quite easily run a small commune on such principles, but try to scale this and it falls apart. Reciprocity and community spirit is easy to build on a personal level, but when it is scaled it relies on abstractions which changes its fundamental nature.

The best hope for left-wing politics is localism: reducing the scale of the political unit to the municipal level. Not only does this make social projects much easier to manage, people are more willing to pay into social funds that are spent directly within their local community.

Very insightful comment indeed.

I agree, Augustus nailed it.
I still harbour hopes for bioregionalism, post apocalypse.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It is just not possible for the current trends to continue. Their very nature is one of unsustainability.

The left will regain prestige, but clearly things will have to get a lot worse indeed before they get better.

My feelings exactly
 

PureX

Veteran Member
We have entered a new "dark age", culturally. The new availability of information has caused us to become woefully ignorant, again. And sadly, it's mostly by choice, this time. And as with the last cultural dark age we went through, this one, too, will be replete with wholesale economic and physical subjugation, the rule of a criminal elite, the spread of bizarre and irrational beliefs that will be used as powerful forms of behavioral control, and much violence and death will be the result. Perhaps humanity will not survive it this time.
 
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exchemist

Veteran Member
whether I like it or not, there no longer seems to be a place for someone with far left sympathies in the world. The 1980’s and the collapse of communism represented a historic and global defeat which sent the far left in to decline.

In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis there were grounds for hope, but it was superficial. There was a revival of interest in Marxism (and Kenysianism) as people came to grips with the failure of neo-liberal capitalism to deliver continuous growth. Income inequality became a political issue with the occupy movement taking to the streets around the world and Thomas Picketty publishing his “capital in the 21st century”. A small cottage industry of intellectuals began to reinvestigate the far left, among them Slavoj Zizek.

The 2015 UK election saw the stirrings of intense green party support amongst young people, culminating in extinction rebellion (UK) and the sunrise movement (US) and greta Thunberg starting a wave of school strikes across the world. This existential threat to our future generated interest in a “Green New Deal” after the 2018 mid-terms with socialists in congress such as Alexandrea Cortez.

We’ve seen the stirrings of a range of movements in “identity politics” such as black lives matter and the me too movement which deals with discrimination and various forms of oppression based on race, gender and sexual orientation. The rise of the far right has been met by antifascists or “antifa” as people try to resist the alt-right.

Polling shows a rise in popularity of socialism and communism amongst young people as millennials recognise that the dreams of the consumer economy will never be realised. The combination of unemployment, job insecurity, low pay, limited opportunities for advancement, a culture of personal debt, the shift towards rented accommodation away from home ownership (assuming we ever leave our parents house), rising price of car insurance, punitive and almost non-existent welfare support from the state and the unpayable burden of university tuition fees come together in a toxic cocktail of resentment and frustration against capitalism as a system.

This has not surprisingly spurred the initial popularity of left wing candidates such as Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders, much to the shock and horror of the more corporate-centrist establishment in both the Labour Party and the Democratic Party.

But all of this suffers an achilles heel (and I say this with some reservations)- it’s passionately anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist. It hates its own past and refuses to learn from its mistakes and think itself above, beyond or outside of history and exceptional because it is in a present isolated from all precedents. We reject organisation, discipline and theory for spontaneous unrest and “consciousness raising” on social media. It seems it is destined either to repeat past mistakes or else unable to achieve the level of power, influence and “success” of its 20th century counter-parts. We are not heading to communist revolutions in the west (whatever the far right says) and for all the talk about change- everyone shudders at the thought of the next stalin. So right-wing arguments that socialism is opposed to freedom or economic growth remain unchallenged even as demands for social justice gain ground.

It looks away from the history and says “that’s not real socialism” or “that’s fascist-imperialist propaganda”. The level of historical knowledge and theoretical understanding is absolutely minimal and polling datas backs this up. We can see it in how labels of “racist” , “sexist”, “fascist” and “homophobe” are applied as knee jerk reactions and the left has turned against free speech- a major historic reversal from the student unrest in the 60’s and 70’s.

This is all built on the assumption that the present is a unique historical moment devoid of a past- and in doing so- pretty much destroys the capacity to have a future. it burns itself out. Mass movements come and go and no political permanent organisation takes their place able to translate platforms for change in to lasting demands for reform or revolution. When it does come, its an insurgency inside establishment parties (Democrats or Labour) or a pluralistic party of the left that burst on to the scene only then to burn out (Syriza in greece). The establishment wages a civil war to cripple these movements within their parties and hijack popular support in to causes people did not originally set out to support.

[I am focusing on the UK and the US in thinking about this, but you can look around the world at Greece or Venezuela and the signs are that the left cannot sustain its momentum indefinitely.]

we are then surprised when movements on the far right, who are given generous support by wealthy donors and publicity from social media platforms that attack old media (breitbart, infowars) and they are the ones who turn popular resentment in to electoral success (often again insurgencies in established parties such as the Tea Party movement or the Alt-Right). Whilst Corbyn and Sanders get almost no media coverage when they talk about major issues facing ordinary people, Johnson and Trump get wall to wall attention because their incompetence and bigotry is so “entertaining”.

A little more than a decade after the 2008 financial crisis, it has been the far-right (or “alt-right”) that has gained from the resentment and hostility to “elites”. So as we move closer to 2020 and perhaps the most consequential election in US history which would signal a more permanent global shift to right-wing authoritarianism if Donald Trump (or even just Republicans) were re-elected, what do you make of the prospects of a left-wing insurgency so far?

Are we destined to see the success of the far right to continue and the Donald Trump and Boris Johnsons going to become the architects in determining the course of the 21st century? Or will the left make a sustained comeback over the next decade as various social, economic and environmental issues begin to bite?
I am not convinced that Bozo will really run a very right wing government.

Look at it this way. The only two things we know for sure about Bozo is that he lies as easily as he breathes, and that he is interested only in self-promotion. Principles, he has none.

Now, he has just got himself a lot of Northern working class constituencies, whose MPs will want to see some practical action. He is going to have to borrow and spend on public services in a major way.

When it comes to the notion of the right wing Tories in the ERG of deregulating the UK economy, to turn it into a sort of Singapore (should be spelt Singapoor, in view of its effect on those at the bottom), how is he going to do that without (a ) making these constituencies worse off and (b ) getting a bad deal with the EU that will make the whole UK worse off? I do not see how he can do it, even if he wants to, which I doubt. As for "rolling back the Welfare State"? No chance.

My take on the guy is that he will make lots of cultural rightwing noises (a spot of light racism and xenophobia, plenty of vacuous waffle about putting the"great" back into Britain [snore.....] etc.). I think he is, like Trump, a cultural reactionary. All his journalism suggests that. I also think, however, that he will be forced, by his attempt to reposition the Tory party towards the North and the working class, to adopt fairly centrist economic policies, for the reasons given above.

I think he is quite capable of throwing the ERG under a bus, just he did the Daieoupaigh, his wife and kids, and various lovers. In short, the best hope for the country is that he governs like the A1 s**t he has been all his life until now. :D
 
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exchemist

Veteran Member
We have entered an new "dark age", culturally. The new availability of information has caused us to become woefully ignorant, again. And sadly, it's mostly by choice, this time. And as with the last cultural dark age we went through, this one, too, will be replete with wholesale economic and physical subjugation, the rule of a criminal elite, the spread of bizarre and irrational beliefs that will be used as powerful forms of behavioral control, and much violence and death will be the result. Perhaps humanity will not survive it this time.
Watch it, or you will get all the End Times nutcases joining in. :D

But I'm sure you are onto something. Way back in the 1970s, Auberon Waugh (who adopted a semi-serious, upper class reactionary persona in his column in Private Eye) announced his big fear for the future was the advent of the "Stupid Society", due to the emancipation of stupid and ignorant people. It was a bit of tongue-in-cheek snobbery (he also wrote, at the time of the miners' strike, of "the dreadful prospect of empty baths in council houses up and down the land" - a reference to the old snobbish joke that working class people used the bath to keep coal in), and yet it had a kind of point behind it.

And now we have the Stupid Society exactly, courtesy of the internet. Silly ideas can whiz round the globe in minutes, at the touch of a button, and can acquire a following in a matter of hours. Criminal gangs and unscrupulous politicians have not been slow to capitalise on the opportunity. I think we will eventually learn to how deal with this, just as we learnt how to deal withe the new freedom of ideas made possible by the printing press. But that involved a couple of centuries of religious wars, of course. :confused:
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
It's difficult to say what the future of the left will be in the UK as there are some big changes ahead.

This election was primarily focused on Brexit with the future of the NHS coming a distant second. How the conservatives deal with these two issues will likely influence how they're viewed by the more centrist voters, especially as they now have a large enough majority that the onus is on them to make the most of it. I personally maintain that Brexit in particular is a poisoned chalice for whoever has to deal with it as it seems highly unlikely that the conservatives will be able to please all the leave voters, let alone the remainers, regardless of the approach they take. I could well be wrong on that and I certainly hope I am as messing up here can have serious long-term consequences.

Right now, I'm not sure there's much the left itself can do to ingratiate itself to the public. A more centrist approach didn't work for Miliband and a firmly left wing approach didn't work for Corbyn in the end. My suspicion is that for the foreseeable future the appeal of the left in the UK will depend mainly on whether or not the conservatives royally screw things up.
 
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Heyo

Veteran Member
We have entered an new "dark age", culturally. The new availability of information has caused us to become woefully ignorant, again. And sadly, it's mostly by choice, this time. And as with the last cultural dark age we went through, this one, too, will be replete with wholesale economic and physical subjugation, the rule of a criminal elite, the spread of bizarre and irrational beliefs that will be used as powerful forms of behavioral control, and much violence and death will be the result. Perhaps humanity will not survive it this time.
Where is the "pessimistic" fruball?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
whether I like it or not, there no longer seems to be a place for someone with far left sympathies in the world. The 1980’s and the collapse of communism represented a historic and global defeat which sent the far left in to decline.

In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis there were grounds for hope, but it was superficial. There was a revival of interest in Marxism (and Kenysianism) as people came to grips with the failure of neo-liberal capitalism to deliver continuous growth. Income inequality became a political issue with the occupy movement taking to the streets around the world and Thomas Picketty publishing his “capital in the 21st century”. A small cottage industry of intellectuals began to reinvestigate the far left, among them Slavoj Zizek.

The 2015 UK election saw the stirrings of intense green party support amongst young people, culminating in extinction rebellion (UK) and the sunrise movement (US) and greta Thunberg starting a wave of school strikes across the world. This existential threat to our future generated interest in a “Green New Deal” after the 2018 mid-terms with socialists in congress such as Alexandrea Cortez.

We’ve seen the stirrings of a range of movements in “identity politics” such as black lives matter and the me too movement which deals with discrimination and various forms of oppression based on race, gender and sexual orientation. The rise of the far right has been met by antifascists or “antifa” as people try to resist the alt-right.

Polling shows a rise in popularity of socialism and communism amongst young people as millennials recognise that the dreams of the consumer economy will never be realised. The combination of unemployment, job insecurity, low pay, limited opportunities for advancement, a culture of personal debt, the shift towards rented accommodation away from home ownership (assuming we ever leave our parents house), rising price of car insurance, punitive and almost non-existent welfare support from the state and the unpayable burden of university tuition fees come together in a toxic cocktail of resentment and frustration against capitalism as a system.

This has not surprisingly spurred the initial popularity of left wing candidates such as Jeremy Corbyn and Bernie Sanders, much to the shock and horror of the more corporate-centrist establishment in both the Labour Party and the Democratic Party.

But all of this suffers an achilles heel (and I say this with some reservations)- it’s passionately anti-Soviet and anti-Stalinist. It hates its own past and refuses to learn from its mistakes and think itself above, beyond or outside of history and exceptional because it is in a present isolated from all precedents. We reject organisation, discipline and theory for spontaneous unrest and “consciousness raising” on social media. It seems it is destined either to repeat past mistakes or else unable to achieve the level of power, influence and “success” of its 20th century counter-parts. We are not heading to communist revolutions in the west (whatever the far right says) and for all the talk about change- everyone shudders at the thought of the next stalin. So right-wing arguments that socialism is opposed to freedom or economic growth remain unchallenged even as demands for social justice gain ground.

It looks away from the history and says “that’s not real socialism” or “that’s fascist-imperialist propaganda”. The level of historical knowledge and theoretical understanding is absolutely minimal and polling datas backs this up. We can see it in how labels of “racist” , “sexist”, “fascist” and “homophobe” are applied as knee jerk reactions and the left has turned against free speech- a major historic reversal from the student unrest in the 60’s and 70’s.

This is all built on the assumption that the present is a unique historical moment devoid of a past- and in doing so- pretty much destroys the capacity to have a future. it burns itself out. Mass movements come and go and no political permanent organisation takes their place able to translate platforms for change in to lasting demands for reform or revolution. When it does come, its an insurgency inside establishment parties (Democrats or Labour) or a pluralistic party of the left that burst on to the scene only then to burn out (Syriza in greece). The establishment wages a civil war to cripple these movements within their parties and hijack popular support in to causes people did not originally set out to support.

[I am focusing on the UK and the US in thinking about this, but you can look around the world at Greece or Venezuela and the signs are that the left cannot sustain its momentum indefinitely.]

we are then surprised when movements on the far right, who are given generous support by wealthy donors and publicity from social media platforms that attack old media (breitbart, infowars) and they are the ones who turn popular resentment in to electoral success (often again insurgencies in established parties such as the Tea Party movement or the Alt-Right). Whilst Corbyn and Sanders get almost no media coverage when they talk about major issues facing ordinary people, Johnson and Trump get wall to wall attention because their incompetence and bigotry is so “entertaining”.

A little more than a decade after the 2008 financial crisis, it has been the far-right (or “alt-right”) that has gained from the resentment and hostility to “elites”. So as we move closer to 2020 and perhaps the most consequential election in US history which would signal a more permanent global shift to right-wing authoritarianism if Donald Trump (or even just Republicans) were re-elected, what do you make of the prospects of a left-wing insurgency so far?

Are we destined to see the success of the far right to continue and the Donald Trump and Boris Johnsons going to become the architects in determining the course of the 21st century? Or will the left make a sustained comeback over the next decade as various social, economic and environmental issues begin to bite?

Part of the problem for the Left is that they've painted themselves into an ideological corner. In the industrial world, they identified as "internationalists," while in the colonial/developing world, they embrace "nationalism."

It worked for a while, when the bourgeois upper classes were associated with Europeans in the colonial world, while the peasants/working classes were associated with the indigenous and/or non-European population. It was somewhat similar in America, where the class hierarchy was strongly correlated to race.

These were earlier versions of what we now call "identity politics," but I think the concept was co-opted by bourgeois upper-class types which has turned it into a cacophonous, incoherent mish-mash which (I believe) was intended to keep the lower classes divided against each other. Identity politics also includes gender politics and LGBTQ politics, which creates even more divisions among the lower classes and even within oppressed ethnic groups. It makes me think that someone threw a bourgeois monkey wrench into leftist politics which has led to the situation you're describing here. Why the leftists got duped, I can't really say.

The Left needs to get back to basics and focus on class and only class, while ignoring and discarding all non-class-related identifiers. The Left needs to embrace true egalitarianism and true economic justice.

The Left also has a bit of an image problem. A lot of them have been painted as "kooks," "misfits," people with odd-colored hair, hedonists, partiers. They're often accused of being lazy, spoiled brats who are/were products of the upper classes and only embracing the left for reasons of "fashion." Upper class rich kids dressing like Che Guevara doesn't make them Che. They appear unkempt, unruly, undisciplined, unfocused, soft, and easily distracted, easily manipulated. Who would want to join and follow such a motley crew?
 
This is ultimately true, but remains the same for most political philosophies. Capitalism, for example, when it is small scale and relegated to a small community, is easier to manage and not as dangerous to resources and human health and wellbeing.

I agree. Most things are fundamentally changed in nature as scale increases.

The good thing about localism is that it has potential to appeal to people right across the political spectrum.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I agree. Most things are fundamentally changed in nature as scale increases.

The good thing about localism is that it has potential to appeal to people right across the political spectrum.

Agreed. I do predict that given population growth, environmental and economic concerns, and the tendency of humans towards violence coupled with increasingly efficient communication and transportation technologies, some sort of global system of government is almost certain.

Likely, this will require more localized systems. My hope would be that a certain amount of freedom would still be allowed in how that is governed, given local concerns and custom.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It's difficult to say what the future of the left will be in the UK as there are some big changes ahead.

This election was primarily focused on Brexit with the future of the NHS coming a distant second. How the conservatives deal with these two issues will likely influence how they're viewed by the more centrist voters, especially as they now have a large enough majority that the onus is on them to make the most of it. I personally maintain that Brexit in particular is a poisoned chalice for whoever has to deal with it as it seems highly unlikely that the conservatives will be able to please all the leave voters, let alone the remainers, regardless of the approach they take. I could well be wrong on that and I certainly hope I am as messing up here can have serious long-term consequences.

Right now, I'm not sure there's much the left itself can do to ingratiate itself to the public. A more centrist approach didn't work for Miliband and a firmly left wing approach didn't work for Corbyn in the end. My suspicion is that for the foreseeable future the appeal of the left in the UK will depend mainly on whether or not the conservatives royally screw things up.
I'm sure that's true.

The key thing for Labour is make sure than when this happens they are electable. And that will mean a centre-left prospectus, with economics that look at least half believable, probably with good green credentials.

I doubt they can do it in 5 years. What you can already see them trying to do is to blame the defeat on Brexit and on Corbyn personally. But a new face with the same sort of far left policies in 5 years time will get nowhere.
 
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