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Evolution My ToE

dad

Undefeated
You obviously do not know your Christian History. If the early Christians really wanted to divorce themselves from the Old Testament, they would have followed Marcion instead of hereticizing him. You do know who Marcion is, don't you?

However, since they did not follow Marcion, you are left with the Gospels and Jesus' words.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)​


You don't get to decide. Jesus did that for you.






The Gospels were written after the Flud. Don't you know that? I'll remind you, again, of what Jesus said...
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17)
You seem confused. Just because there were good rules for God's ancient people that may no longer apply the same now does not mean we divorce ourselves from it. No more than we divorce ourselves from the garden of Eden. No more than we divorce ourselves from heaven.
We take lessons from the past, they were written for our benefit.
 

dad

Undefeated
The most accurate way would be... here's a Bible quote that can and has been interpreted in hundreds of different ways, this is the interpretation I agree with. If however you can give me a Bible prophesy that gives accurate dates and names and I would be very interested.
One kind was named long before he was born or became king...Cyrus. Details of how Greece would conquer were given even naming Greece. The year Jesus was to be born was given centuries before His birth. The very night Babylon was to fall, a heavenly hand wrote it on the wall in the palace! Etc.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
One kind was named long before he was born or became king...Cyrus.

Are you talking about Isaiah 45:1?

ETA: Forgot to mention that when I googled this it came back as Trump... seems there are some who believe the Cyrus mentioned in this verse is Donald Trump

Details of how Greece would conquer were given even naming Greece. The year Jesus was to be born was given centuries before His birth. The very night Babylon was to fall, a heavenly hand wrote it on the wall in the palace! Etc.

How about giving the verses, trying to google this stuff is just guess work on my behalf as I have no idea which prophecies you are referring to.
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm verging on to the point of tearing my hair out.

Science doesn't do "proof", it does "evidence". Please stop asking for "proof" when you should already know by now that this is not something science can produce for a theory.
So then a person can safely say in your opinion that science has not proved evolution, is that right?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
They are not any of those things. They are all one-off events. They are not observable, testable and repeatable events.

Bible stories are claims, not evidence. And extraordinary claims, at that. The evidence comes from a demonstration that the claims are true, not mere assertions.

...
#SkepticThinker -- Sorry, but the other post didn't come out too clearly. So here is my response.
You are familiar with the Arch of Titus in Rome, aren't you? Arch of Titus - Wikipedia
Jesus foretold the razing of Jerusalem and the temple. The arch stands as a memorial to that conquest.
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What is the difference, other than that you believe in Yahweh and the Bible rather than in the religions of other nations? What objective criteria could you present to convince an atheist that the stories of Yahweh's dealings with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are any more true than the stories of the Greek gods or the Egyptian gods?
The difference is that I've read other religious writings and commentaries. And It makes sense to me that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." God doesn't need microscopes and time detector machines to figure things out. I certainly cannot say I understand everything in the Bible, that should go without saying. But the Bible and its teachings make more sense to me than anything that contradicts it. Obviously not all agree with my view. That the writings were preserved over the course of centuries also adds support to the idea that it was God who preserved and inspired the Bible. What other religions are you talking about?
 

Astrophile

Active Member
Are you talking about Isaiah 45:1?

ETA: Forgot to mention that when I googled this it came back as Trump... seems there are some who believe the Cyrus mentioned in this verse is Donald Trump



How about giving the verses, trying to google this stuff is just guess work on my behalf as I have no idea which prophecies you are referring to.

The prophecy about the Greek (or, more accurately, Macedonian) conquest is Daniel 8:1-12 and Daniel 11. The story of the writing on the wall is in Daniel 5.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
You seem confused. Just because there were good rules for God's ancient people that may no longer apply the same now

I'm not confused. The Bible clearly states:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
Yet, for some reason you have been unable to explain, you believe some of the old laws do not pertain to you. It's very clear that what you do is pick and choose which parts of your holy scripture apply and which don't. Pick and choose. How silly.

I also see that you did not comment on Marcion. You really never have heard of him, have you? How can you believe that you have any knowledge of the Bible if you don't even know who Marcion was? That's really sad.




We take lessons from the past, they were written for our benefit.
Says the man who chooses to ignore those parts of written scripture that he does not want to follow.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The prophecy about the Greek (or, more accurately, Macedonian) conquest is Daniel 8:1-12 and Daniel 11. The story of the writing on the wall is in Daniel 5.
Just to mention a later prophecy, not sure if you saw the response concerning the Arch of Titus which was built signifying the overrun of Jerusalem. Jesus foretold the people would be razed by their enemies. The Roman armies overtook them not long thereafter.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'm not confused. The Bible clearly states:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
Yet, for some reason you have been unable to explain, you believe some of the old laws do not pertain to you. It's very clear that what you do is pick and choose which parts of your holy scripture apply and which don't. Pick and choose. How silly.

I also see that you did not comment on Marcion. You really never have heard of him, have you? How can you believe that you have any knowledge of the Bible if you don't even know who Marcion was? That's really sad.





Says the man who chooses to ignore those parts of written scripture that he does not want to follow.
what is your application of the scriptures you quoted?
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Just to mention a later prophecy, not sure if you saw the response concerning the Arch of Titus which was built signifying the overrun of Jerusalem. Jesus foretold the people would be razed by their enemies. The Roman armies overtook them not long thereafter.

They were occupied by Rome at the time and there was opposition to the occupation. It's not much of a prophecy, even I could have predicted there would be an uprising and Rome would squash it (but I still can't pick Saturday nights lotto numbers).
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
They were occupied by Rome at the time and there was opposition to the occupation. It's not much of a prophecy, even I could have predicted there would be an uprising and Rome would squash it (but I still can't pick Saturday nights lotto numbers).
They never rebuilt the physical literal temple there. Yes, the Arch of Titus stands as a monument to the gigantic defeat that the Israelites had of their sacred place of worship, that is, after Jesus was killed. You could have predicted it, but you weren't there. There were those that listened to Jesus, and there were many that did not.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
They were occupied by Rome at the time and there was opposition to the occupation. It's not much of a prophecy, even I could have predicted there would be an uprising and Rome would squash it (but I still can't pick Saturday nights lotto numbers).
The Bible mentions Nebuchadnezzar. Do you believe anything the Bible says, by the way?
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
The Bible mentions Nebuchadnezzar. Do you believe anything the Bible says, by the way?

I'll have to google Nebuchadnezzar, don't have time just at the moment, heading off to visit my daughter shortly.

Sure I believe some of the bible. Don't kill, don't steal, treat others the way you wish to be treated... there's a lot of sound advice in there. Also a lot of hate in it which I don't believe.
 

dad

Undefeated
Are you talking about Isaiah 45:1?

ETA: Forgot to mention that when I googled this it came back as Trump... seems there are some who believe the Cyrus mentioned in this verse is Donald Trump
The comparison is made because some think Trump will really help Israel. Those who know the bible would not seriously consider Trump was Cyrus any more than he was Donald Duck.

How about giving the verses, trying to google this stuff is just guess work on my behalf as I have no idea which prophecies you are referring to.

One example is that Israel was prophesied to be destroyed and carried away into captivity for 70 years. That is what happened. The country taking them into captivity was forecast also...Babylon.

Bible prophecies fulfilled by Babylon
 

dad

Undefeated
I'm not confused. The Bible clearly states:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
Yet, for some reason you have been unable to explain, you believe some of the old laws do not pertain to you.
If the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Really. No one ever kept the law (but Jesus) or was saved by the law. The law brings death because no one can keep it. Scripture and prophesy are true. That does not mean that we all need to ride on assses, or follow a star. God told Israel to leave Egypt, that does not mean we cannot go there to vacation now. God had dietary rules for ancient Israel, they do not apply to me today. If God told them how to treat their workers and poor and slaves fairly that does not mean He supports slavery.


I also see that you did not comment on Marcion. You really never have heard of him, have you? How can you believe that you have any knowledge of the Bible if you don't even know who Marcion was? That's really sad.
Who cares about the guy?

Says the man who chooses to ignore those parts of written scripture that he does not want to follow.
Try telling the truth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'll have to google Nebuchadnezzar, don't have time just at the moment, heading off to visit my daughter shortly.

Sure I believe some of the bible. Don't kill, don't steal, treat others the way you wish to be treated... there's a lot of sound advice in there. Also a lot of hate in it which I don't believe.
I'm sorry, I haven't been following all of your posts. Do you believe in God, and do you believe in humans (and others) coming about because of mindless evolution?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Really. No one ever kept the law (but Jesus) or was saved by the law. The law brings death because no one can keep it. Scripture and prophesy are true. That does not mean that we all need to ride on assses, or follow a star. God told Israel to leave Egypt, that does not mean we cannot go there to vacation now. God had dietary rules for ancient Israel, they do not apply to me today. If God told them how to treat their workers and poor and slaves fairly that does not mean He supports slavery.



Who cares about the guy?

Try telling the truth.
That's a good point, that no one ever kept the law but Jesus.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
I'm sorry, I haven't been following all of your posts. Do you believe in God, and do you believe in humans (and others) coming about because of mindless evolution?

I haven't posted much for ages, been busy with bird research, bird photography and renovations so there hasn't been much posting from me to see.

I haven't found any God yet that seems credible to me. I do have a soft spot for the tribal beliefs of Australian Aboriginals and the San Bushmen of Africa but I don't know a lot about it. I've been trying to learn about Baiame the creator God of the Worimi people who are the traditional owners of the area of Australia I live in but unfortunately most of the knowledge was bastardised by the early Christian missionaries.

I have no idea what mindless evolution is. If you mean the theory of evolution then yes I think that the evidence is very strong and in all likelihood life evolved from a common ancestor into what we see today. How life first started I have no idea.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I haven't posted much for ages, been busy with bird research, bird photography and renovations so there hasn't been much posting from me to see.

I haven't found any God yet that seems credible to me. I do have a soft spot for the tribal beliefs of Australian Aboriginals and the San Bushmen of Africa but I don't know a lot about it. I've been trying to learn about Baiame the creator God of the Worimi people who are the traditional owners of the area of Australia I live in but unfortunately most of the knowledge was bastardised by the early Christian missionaries.

I have no idea what mindless evolution is. If you mean the theory of evolution then yes I think that the evidence is very strong and in all likelihood life evolved from a common ancestor into what we see today. How life first started I have no idea.
Good to see you back. Sounds like you have had some good and enjoyable reasons to be absent. I recall you mentioning your interest in birding, if I am not mistaken.

He means that anything that is not in the Bible and interpreted literally is not the truth. He communicates this through means nowhere mentioned in the Bible of course. A literal interpretation is arbitrarily and capricious applied.

Mindless evolution is just a means to denigrate science that does not fit with that literal interpretation. Denigrate seems to be the key strategy to support infallibility, since no evidence does. It is just a secondary imposition applied by people that is not required for belief except by those that are compelled to impose it on themselves.
 
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