Religion?

dybmh said:

Yup... it is right inline with the OP. No worries at all. Here's are my first 2 questions; reply at your leisure:

I just read the wikipedia article on the Book of James. Do you agree with it? They are saying it was written by James the Brother of Jesus. Is that true?

Also, wikipedia reports that elements of the book demonstrate a high degree of knowledge about Jewish practices and law. But other parts seem completely ignorant about Jewish practices and law. Does that makes sense to you? Do you think wikipedia is right about this?

This is relevant to the OP because, in order to understand what is meant by the verse in the OP, I need context. And that context includes: who wrote it, when, and how connected to Judaism are the contents of the book. Knowing these things will be really helpful for me.

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Okay, cool.
Wikipedia to some people equals Wickedpedia, for obvious biases on particular topics. So though I do use Wikipedia extensively, as it is probably the leading research library, I do research the information if available elsewhere.

From their articles on Biblical research, one thing comes through clear to me - the best they can do, is give the various opinions, of Biblical scholars.

I have two scholarly sources which I use.
Both of those sources agree that James who identified himself by name, was the brother of Jesus.

As regards whether the book demonstrate a high degree of knowledge about Jewish practices and law, or not, neither of my sources says anything about that.
However, it is clear from the letter, that James, like Jesus, was quite familiar with the Tanakh.
For example... James 2:8-11.

James was also very familiar with the teachings of Jesus, and the apostles.
Scholars date the letter of James to before 62 CE. Possibly as early as 50 CE.

What is meant by the verse - James 1:27?
If we consider the Tanakh which contains God's regulations for his people, we will find that worship of the true God, always involved the widows and orphan, which shows God's compassion for families bereaved of the family head. (Exodus 22:22, 23;Deuteronomy 24:19-21)

We could appreciate that there would have been many widows and orphans, since the Israelite men often went to war, and because of breaking God's laws, at times, there were many casualties.
So men left home, and never returned... leaving a widow and orphan(s).

This very important "feature" became woven into the Christian congregation, as a mark of true worship. (Acts 4:34, 35)


While researching the subject, I came across some information on the use of the term "fatherless boy".
Also the use of the word "visit"...
One meaning of the Greek verb translated “to look after” is “to visit.” (Acts 15:36)

KAT-KAT said:

View attachment 35146.........

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The above I find is the 'modern-day definition' of theocracy (God Rule)
Kind of like the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran ( rule by clergy class or priest craft )
The theocracy of Daniel 2:44 is government by God, but in the hands of Christ Jesus.

nPeace said:

Just a slight correction Alone.
It doesn't describe religion that way. It describes pure religion and one that is undefiled in the sight of God, that way. In other words, the form of worship acceptable to God, is one that visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and keeps separate from the world.
Where does that leave us?
It leaves us without an excuse for not identifying the form of worship God approves of... imo.

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I find Jesus stresses that Scripture is ' religious truth ' - at John 17:17
So, James 1:27 would be pure worship based on Scripture.
Including care for orphans and widows and be un-spotted by the world.
Un-spotted by remaining neutral in world affairs.
Jesus and his 1st-century followers set the example for us.
They did Not get involved in the political affairs of the day.
They did Not even get involved in the issues of the day between the Jews ans Romans.

URAVIP2ME said:

I find Jesus stresses that Scripture is ' religious truth ' - at John 17:17
So, James 1:27 would be pure worship based on Scripture.
Including care for orphans and widows and be un-spotted by the world.
Un-spotted by remaining neutral in world affairs.
Jesus and his 1st-century followers set the example for us.
They did Not get involved in the political affairs of the day.
They did Not even get involved in the issues of the day between the Jews ans Romans.

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2nd Timothy 2:4
No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
Nice comment

Alone said:

James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?

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Which passage are you referring to? Or is it an overall concept?

firedragon said:

Which passage are you referring to? Or is it an overall concept?

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James 1:27

Alone said:

James 1:27

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Thank you very much.

firedragon said:

Thank you very much.

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YW

Alone said:

James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?

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To the last question: Yes, mostly.

It's interesting you got this James quote, one of the 2 very famous ones (or 3), from that epistle. While James is helpful in some ways, I'd very much recommend a person first read one of the 4 gospel accounts, as much more essentially primary: to come first, so as to make other things have correct context, but even more: to come first because it's really the first and the last -- Jesus in person here on Earth spoke words we learn that are going to continue forever, even after this current earth has passed away and has been replaced.

Alone said:

James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?

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Hi,
An accurate translation according the Interlinear Greek is "the form of Worship...".
Saying "The Religion" implies that that is all there is to having a "pure" religion and would make all other requirements unnecessary.
Obviously that is not the case.
Matt 20:11 " teaching them to observe "all" the things I (Jesus) have commanded".

Alone said:

2 Timothy 2:4
No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
Nice comment

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Very nice comment ^ above ^.
James informs us wars come from wrong fleshly desires, and not from love - James 4:1-4.
Yes, and a 'soldier of Christ' would use the 'spiritual armor' as described at Ephesians 6:11-17.
This is because his weapons are Not carnal, Not material weapons as per 2 Corinthians 10:4.
What the nations sacrifice is Not to God - 1 Corinthians 10:20-21.
The clergy of the nations often use the pulpit as a recruiting station so parents will sacrifice their young on the Altar of War teaching that is the same thing as the Altar of God which it is Not.
This is why the world's (political, religious, business) lies in the power of the wicked one according to 1 John 5:19.
So, Christian soldiers walk by faith and Not sighted objects - 2 Corinthians 5:7

halbhh said:

...... -- Jesus in person here on Earth spoke words we learn that are going to continue forever, even after this current earth has passed away and has been replaced.

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I find a lot of people think planet Earth will pass away, or be replaced, or will be destroyed.
Since there is nothing wrong with God's created Earth that He has gifted to us - Psalms 115:16.
And as King Solomon wrote at Ecclesiastes 1:4 that the Earth abides forever, then Earth is Not passing away.
2 Peter 3:5, 7, 13 speaks of three (3) Earths:
1st ) the Earth of OLD meaning the Earth of Noah's day which did Not pass away, but wicked people passed away.
2nd ) the Earth of NOW ( Earth since Noah's day down to our day or time frame )
3rd ) the Earth NEW (New because the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7) because righteousness will dwell on Earth during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth when humble meek people will inherit the Earth.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
Not the Earth being replaced, but the wicked will Not exist any more - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5

URAVIP2ME said:

I find a lot of people think planet Earth will pass away, or be replaced, or will be destroyed.
Since there is nothing wrong with God's created Earth that He has gifted to us - Psalms 115:16.
And as King Solomon wrote at Ecclesiastes 1:4 that the Earth abides forever, then Earth is Not passing away.
2 Peter 3:5, 7, 13 speaks of three (3) Earths:
1st ) the Earth of OLD meaning the Earth of Noah's day which did Not pass away, but wicked people passed away.
2nd ) the Earth of NOW ( Earth since Noah's day down to our day or time frame )
3rd ) the Earth NEW (New because the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7) because righteousness will dwell on Earth during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth when humble meek people will inherit the Earth.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
Not the Earth being replaced, but the wicked will Not exist any more - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5

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Ah, I don't actually assume the existing planet would not be simply reformed, perhaps just as you suggest. You have a perfectly reasonable theory in my view. My attitude is that I'll never know many things like that ahead of time past just having reasonable guesses (unless there is an intervention from above, such as a vision). I just now am recalling how in John's vision in Revelation, there is a moment when John is instructed to keep a certain thing closed, and not reveal it to the rest of us.

halbhh said:

Ah, I don't actually assume the existing planet would not be simply reformed, perhaps just as you suggest. You have a perfectly reasonable theory in my view. My attitude is that I'll never know many things like that ahead of time past just having reasonable guesses (unless there is an intervention from above, such as a vision). I just now am recalling how in John's vision in Revelation, there is a moment when John is instructed to keep a certain thing closed, and not reveal it to the rest of us.

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I am wondering to which verse you are referring. Things were kept closed temporarily but not for always.-John 1:19
Yes, divine intervention from above, and to me that involvement is what is recorded in Scripture.
The establishment of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) is associated with hurling Satan out of heaven (Rev. 12:10-12)
which brings ' woe ' to our earth. Woe such as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 which we see on today's news.
This fierceness is leading to that 'the powers that be' will surprisingly turn on religion. - 2nd Thess. 5:2-3.
This turning on religion leads to the great tribulation of Rev. 7:14,9, then it will Not be any ' vision ' but mankind will then see divine intervention, divine involvement, because the executional words from Jesus' mouth will be as described at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16. So, we are informed in advance as to what is coming.- Amos 3:7

Alone said:

James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?

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So is 'pure' religion limited to only these two activities? A biblical literalist would have to say 'yes.'

URAVIP2ME said:

I am wondering to which verse you are referring. Things were kept closed temporarily but not for always.-John 1:19
Yes, divine intervention from above, and to me that involvement is what is recorded in Scripture.
The establishment of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) is associated with hurling Satan out of heaven (Rev. 12:10-12)
which brings ' woe ' to our earth. Woe such as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 which we see on today's news.
This fierceness is leading to that 'the powers that be' will surprisingly turn on religion. - 2nd Thess. 5:2-3.
This turning on religion leads to the great tribulation of Rev. 7:14,9, then it will Not be any ' vision ' but mankind will then see divine intervention, divine involvement, because the executional words from Jesus' mouth will be as described at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16. So, we are informed in advance as to what is coming.- Amos 3:7

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Sure, that hiding of some certain things (only) happens in Revelation chapter 10. It's an exception, as generally the revelation is to be given to us. Of course, we shouldn't expect to know everything. So, it's not only that famously none, not even the Son (!), know the day and hour, but only the Father, but even more: there will be additional things we (mortals here) simply won't know ahead. John learned something we see there in that chapter that was to be kept from us.

I believe you should recognize the word "pure." I have long ceased to be puritanical about religion.

KAT-KAT said:

I'm not sure. Any Bible verse requires listening, but some of them require critical thinking if applied today... otherwise we end up into an eventual theocracy (no offense ).

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I believe when we enter into eternal life, it will be a theocracy and a kingdom.

Vinayaka said:

Many folks have never read the Bible, or care to. Does the street map of New York City work in Istanbul?

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I believe eternal life in the Kingdom of God will be all that is left after the end of the world. So throw away your maps and your preconceptions. Neither will exist anymore.

halbhh said:

Sure, that hiding of some certain things (only) happens in Revelation chapter 10. It's an exception, as generally the revelation is to be given to us. Of course, we shouldn't expect to know everything. So, it's not only that famously none, not even the Son (!), know the day and hour, but only the Father, but even more: there will be additional things we (mortals here) simply won't know ahead. John learned something we see there in that chapter that was to be kept from us.

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Yes, we don't know how Isaiah 26:20 will be fulfilled, but we do know the great crowd of Revelation 7:9,14 will come through the great tribulation / Armageddon alive.