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Religion?

Alone

Banned by request
James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?

I'm not sure. Any Bible verse requires listening, but some of them require critical thinking if applied today... otherwise we end up into an eventual theocracy (no offense :) ).
 

Alone

Banned by request
No
I'm not sure. Any Bible verse requires listening, but some of them require critical thinking if applied today... otherwise we end up into an eventual theocracy (no offense :) ).
None taken, what exactly is theocracy, I did a little test in the last 3 days, and as long as I don't say anything nobody else says anything, kind of making me wonder what to do? Almost as if arguing is fun or something? Or debating?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?

Many folks have never read the Bible, or care to. Does the street map of New York City work in Istanbul?
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
None taken, what exactly is theocracy,

20191211_183114.jpg


:)
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?
hey bro... this is a reference from the Old Testament... I'm trying to think of the right word for it... a "shout out" to the OT... kinda...

Pure and Undefiled... caring for the widow and orphan...

I'll go find the reference, and see if can find the original source ( assuming that I have this correct ).

Stand by.
 

Alone

Banned by request
hey bro... this is a reference from the Old Testament... I'm trying to think of the right word for it... a "shout out" to the OT... kinda...

Pure and Undefiled... caring for the widow and orphan...

I'll go find the reference, and see if can find the original source ( assuming that I have this correct ).

Stand by.
Ok
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@Alone,

Crud... the quote I was thinking of does not include orphans.... I'm still looking though, but I'm only 50/50 that I'll find anything...
 

Alone

Banned by request
@Alone,

Crud... the quote I was thinking of does not include orphans.... I'm still looking though, but I'm only 50/50 that I'll find anything...
NP I just really wish I guess I wasn't so sensitive I just really don't want to argue and what not however I thought that I could try to learn something, which I have actually learned a lot but only at the sake of confrontation, debating, & arguments, I don't like that. Obviously not communication skills are not good enough to avoid such!
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
James 1
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
This is what the Bible States religion is, so where does that leave us?, Are all these other topics just argumentative statements?
Just a slight correction Alone.
It doesn't describe religion that way. It describes pure religion and one that is undefiled in the sight of God, that way. In other words, the form of worship acceptable to God, is one that visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and keeps separate from the world.

Where does that leave us?
It leaves us without an excuse for not identifying the form of worship God approves of... imo.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
No

None taken, what exactly is theocracy, I did a little test in the last 3 days, and as long as I don't say anything nobody else says anything, kind of making me wonder what to do? Almost as if arguing is fun or something? Or debating?
Thanks for sharing that. It was informative, to me.

When God created humans, according to the Bible, he became responsible for their life, meaning he was obligated to be their lawgiver, and ruler.
His creation would be obligated to express appreciation to their maker. Enter worship - the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

So 1. the creator deserves worship. It is his right, and 2. humans rightfully owe the creator worship. It's their obligation.

As you can see, the latter is not one that is very appealing to many, and this goes back to the first rebels. First... an angel. Then, the first humans, all the way to the present, chose to be their own god - obligated to no one but self. In other words, they are their own lawgiver, and ruler - god.

The result - man is destructive to himself and others, because he makes his own rules, which lacks true wisdom. So the world is a mess, and getting messier... as we can see.

However, from Abel, one of Adam's sons, to the present, there have been persons who submit to God, as their ruler and lawgiver, and they feel obligated to worship their creator, as he is deserving of it. They recognize they owe their very existence to God.

These are the ones who offer pure worship, acceptable to God, and it brings them peace - in their mind, and life.
I hope that was helpful.
Feel free to ask what you would like to know. :)
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
yeah, I'm coming up empty.

Here's the best I can offer.

Caring for widows and orphans in the Torah is called ... uhhh I'm trying to remember the word in hebrew.... it has a special name... I always translate in my mind as "fairness". hmmmm

Right!!!!

It's called Mishpat. As opposed to Din.

These are hebrew words. But the point is that caring for the widow and orphan, the laws for these... if I am remembering correctly are described not as "just" but "fair". And that's actually a very interesting distinction if you think about it. Justice changes over time, it's... in a way... subjective. But Fairness is always fair... regardless. And that in a way is a form of "purity".

And that ^^ could be something that the author of the book of James knew. But also...
let's get real. it's not that innovative to say that it is pure and undefiled to care for the orphan. it;s kind of like saying... "Hey... you can't ever go wrong by caring for an orphan. it's always pure and holy."

Somethings even though they are holy... are only holy and pure if they are done in the right way at the right time and by the right people. I could give several real world examples of this. but I'm guessing you could come up with them on your own.

Anywhooo,

That's what I'm getting from the verse you brought.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
yeah, I'm coming up empty.

Here's the best I can offer.

Caring for widows and orphans in the Torah is called ... uhhh I'm trying to remember the word in hebrew.... it has a special name... I always translate in my mind as "fairness". hmmmm

Right!!!!

It's called Mishpat. As opposed to Din.

These are hebrew words. But the point is that caring for the widow and orphan, the laws for these... if I am remembering correctly are described not as "just" but "fair". And that's actually a very interesting distinction if you think about it. Justice changes over time, it's... in a way... subjective. But Fairness is always fair... regardless. And that in a way is a form of "purity".

And that ^^ could be something that the author of the book of James knew. But also...
let's get real. it's not that innovative to say that it is pure and undefiled to care for the orphan. it;s kind of like saying... "Hey... you can't ever go wrong by caring for an orphan. it's always pure and holy."

Somethings even though they are holy... are only holy and pure if they are done in the right way at the right time and by the right people. I could give several real world examples of this. but I'm guessing you could come up with them on your own.

Anywhooo,

That's what I'm getting from the verse you brought.
Some translation say fatherless... not sure why.
The Greek word used is orphanos: an orphan.
(James 1:27) . . .The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Perhaps, back then, a fatherless child was considered an orphan.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Some translation say fatherless... not sure why.
The Greek word used is orphanos: an orphan.
(James 1:27) . . .The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Perhaps, back then, a fatherless child was considered an orphan.
Well... I know one person 2, 3, maybe 4 RF'ers that could help with this little mystery. But maybe we can figure it out on our own...
Are you game?

Are you in the mood for a scriptural scavenger hunt?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Well... I know one person 2, 3, maybe 4 RF'ers that could help with this little mystery. But maybe we can figure it out on our own...
Are you game?

Are you in the mood for a scriptural scavenger hunt?
Not sure what you mean, but I'll jump in.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Not sure what you mean, but I'll jump in.
Here's the thing... you know I'm Jewish right. That means I am woefully under-equipped to make heads or tails of anything in the New Testament. And that's why I could use your help if I want to try to understand the verse in the OP beyond taking a guess like I did previously.

Scavenger Hunt: is a game in America. It's a kids game, but sometimes adults play it too.

Essentially it's playing Sherlock Holmes. Where one clue leads to another clue which leads to another clue until eventually you find a prize at the end... a candy bar. maybe a little toy... something like that. it's a game in America. Sorry for using the odd expression.

Basically I asked because... you may have no interest in making a game out of researching scripture. But I love this stuff. I think it is so fun. I would do it myself.. but again, I need help with any verse in the New Testament... you seemed interested so I thought maybe I'd ask if you wanted to team up and try to solve this mystery:

"What is James 27:1 really talking about?"

That's the mystery, do you have time and/or interest in perhaps exploring this casually with me, here in this tread? ( that's what I should have said before... sorry )
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Here's the thing... you know I'm Jewish right. That means I am woefully under-equipped to make heads or tails of anything in the New Testament. And that's why I could use your help if I want to try to understand the verse in the OP beyond taking a guess like I did previously.

Scavenger Hunt: is a game in America. It's a kids game, but sometimes adults play it too.

Essentially it's playing Sherlock Holmes. Where one clue leads to another clue which leads to another clue until eventually you find a prize at the end... a candy bar. maybe a little toy... something like that. it's a game in America. Sorry for using the odd expression.

Basically I asked because... you may have no interest in making a game out of researching scripture. But I love this stuff. I think it is so fun. I would do it myself.. but again, I need help with any verse in the New Testament... you seemed interested so I thought maybe I'd ask if you wanted to team up and try to solve this mystery:

"What is James 27:1 really talking about?"

That's the mystery, do you have time and/or interest in perhaps exploring this casually with me, here in this tread? ( that's what I should have said before... sorry )
Sounds interesting.
However, I don't like going off topic in threads, so I think it would be best to probably create a new thread if it's going away from the Op, or ask @Alone if this is still keeping in line with the OP.

Whichever, I'm in, but signing off right now.
Later.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Sounds interesting.
However, I don't like going off topic in threads, so I think it would be best to probably create a new thread if it's going away from the Op, or ask @Alone if this is still keeping in line with the OP.

Whichever, I'm in, but signing off right now.
Later.
Yup... it is right inline with the OP. No worries at all. Here's are my first 2 questions; reply at your leisure:

I just read the wikipedia article on the Book of James. Do you agree with it? They are saying it was written by James the Brother of Jesus. Is that true?

Also, wikipedia reports that elements of the book demonstrate a high degree of knowledge about Jewish practices and law. But other parts seem completely ignorant about Jewish practices and law. Does that makes sense to you? Do you think wikipedia is right about this?

This is relevant to the OP because, in order to understand what is meant by the verse in the OP, I need context. And that context includes: who wrote it, when, and how connected to Judaism are the contents of the book. Knowing these things will be really helpful for me.
 

Alone

Banned by request
Yup... it is right inline with the OP. No worries at all. Here's are my first 2 questions; reply at your leisure:

I just read the wikipedia article on the Book of James. Do you agree with it? They are saying it was written by James the Brother of Jesus. Is that true?

Also, wikipedia reports that elements of the book demonstrate a high degree of knowledge about Jewish practices and law. But other parts seem completely ignorant about Jewish practices and law. Does that makes sense to you? Do you think wikipedia is right about this?

This is relevant to the OP because, in order to understand what is meant by the verse in the OP, I need context. And that context includes: who wrote it, when, and how connected to Judaism are the contents of the book. Knowing these things will be really helpful for me.
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with the last three previous comments as far as understanding the book of James better, the whole idea was to get a better understanding of the verse and whatever shape or fashion that may entail.
 
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